Should I Leave My Current Job for the Same Pay?

Danielh22185

As the title states and some of you may have read my previous threads on some of my current job situation / frustrations. I have interviewed for another company and they want to offer me a position. However their range is a bit lower with an absolute max equally to what I currently make (after I get my promotion I am still waiting on). They also have options of potential bonus / profit sharing, and their health benefits seem to cost me roughly half out of pocket than what my current does. I want to also add that my current position is a NOC style shift schedule which allows me to save TONS of money by not having to put my kids through daycare full time. So if I moved to a M-F job my kids would have to go to daycare more often per week and I would take an immediate annual ~$5k pay hit.

The new position though is a big change for me. I would be doing all phases of what a network engineer would be responsible for (design, budget, implement, support, upgrade, etc), where more of what I currently do now is just two phases (support / upgrade). So I am heavily considering this as a position that will allow me to grow skillsets and ultimately become a very strong and well rounded engineer but jumping ship when I don't necessarily have to for possibly the same or -$5k a year has me worried.

I might also add my family depends heavily of me for financial stability. My wife is self employed so has no benefits and I generally make 65-70% of the family income.


If you were in the same position what would you do? Just trying to get some ideas on other people's takes.

tmtex

Stay until something better comes

PCTechLinc

By just reading this post alone, it seems like the only opportunity you have is increasing your skillset. If I were put into this situation, I would stay the course until a similar opportunity comes along, but with an increase in pay. I wouldn't want to throw away years of history with a company just to start over again, with the same pay. When I move onto a different job, I've always increased my salary. I wouldn't change that unless it was absolutely necessary. -My two cents.

NetworkNewb

I think it would depend on your lifestyle and if 5k would be a big impact on how your family lives.

Also, if the hours are better for your family or not. Not in terms of daycare, but in terms of spending quality time with them. I've seen some M-F jobs where people are expected to work til 6-7pm and have over an hour commute each way (been there). I know I wouldn't want to work that late or commute that far again.

For me, my wife and I's combine income is like 160k. I don't think 5k would be a huge deal. And it would come down to if I were OK with the hours. Taking into account the commute. Other then that, it sounds like it would be a nice step up in terms of experience and duties.

Danielh22185

NetworkNewb wrote: »

I think it would depend on your lifestyle and if 5k would be a big impact on how your family lives.

Also, if the hours are better for your family or not. Not in terms of daycare, but in terms of spending quality time with them. I've seen some M-F jobs where people are expected to work til 6-7pm and have over an hour commute each way (been there). I know I wouldn't want to work that late or commute that far again.

For me, my wife and I's combine income is like 160k. I don't think 5k would be a huge deal. And it would come down to if I were OK with the hours. Taking into account the commute. Other then that, it sounds like it would be a nice step up in terms of experience and duties.

You make a good point. Although I do work a shift scheduled Sunday - Tuesday / Sunday - Wed (every other week) I do have the luxury of that schedule of freeing up family time on my days off / giving me time to disconnect from work. From what I gather about the job they do have a lot more responsibilities on top of what I do in my current job which may end up making them work longer hours more frequently. The exta $5k a year may not be a huge deal either to my family but I fear the time investment the new job may require.

I originally asked for 10% above what I currently make and the recruiter that is in contact with the company told me their max was where I sit currently. But they have 10% bonus on top of base and profit sharing. I also did the math on their health benefits costs and although I will adopt about $5k more in day care costs the health care premiums are a lot lower than my current job which will only net me having to pay out an extra ~$140 a month so it's almost a wash.

However I have never had a job that paid bonus and profit sharing so I don't fully know how I should consider those options. Obviously they are never a 100% guarantee if the company has a bad year, so again if base pay is considered, I'd be leaving for the same pay if they were to agree to give me their max.

paul78

What's the history of bonus payout and profit sharing at the company? If it's a public company, there should be a ton of info on how employee compensation and career path-ing is structured. On the surface, if this was me and I was at your career stage, I would probably take the job. But that's just me because this job sounds like more responsibility and may have a higher upside.

IronmanX

Danielh22185 wrote: »

I originally asked for 10% above what I currently make and the recruiter that is in contact with the company told me their max was where I sit currently.

That sounds like they are playing the negotiating game.
How much do you make? 60K but you want a 10% bump no sorry our max just so happens to be what you are making now....

haha maybe its just they way I'm reading it and what actually went on behind the scenes is different.


You said you are still waiting on your promotion. Do you currently get yearly bump up in pay?
If they are saying this is the top of the range at the new job i take that to mean no yearly cost of living increases.

shauncarter1

I would do everything I could to increase my skillset. Could mean a short term (1 or 2 years) sacrifice, but long term you should make that up 10 fold or so. I started my career as a Network Administrator and made considerably less than some of my classmates working for larger companies as desktop support. The difference was that I got so much experience in 2 years as a Network Admin that my growth potential was double what their potential ended up being. I'm not in your shoes as you appear to have some other things to consider, but if you can sacrifice some income for experience it should pay off handsomely.

Danielh22185

IronmanX wrote: »

That sounds like they are playing the negotiating game.
How much do you make? 60K but you want a 10% bump no sorry our max just so happens to be what you are making now....

haha maybe its just they way I'm reading it and what actually went on behind the scenes is different.


You said you are still waiting on your promotion. Do you currently get yearly bump up in pay?
If they are saying this is the top of the range at the new job i take that to mean no yearly cost of living increases.

Good point here a well. They only ever really disclosed the pay range only until after I had said what I made and I want a 10% increase.

Danielh22185

Also another note to add about my current job. Yes I do get annual increases. This year I got 3.5% which is considerably good. However I have no possibility of of eligibility of bonuses or profit sharing unless I went into management and climbed up that ladder.

blargoe

If the pay is similar enough where you can absorb the slight cut in monthly take home pay, I would definitely lean toward the new position if I were in your shoes. Anything you can do to gradually increase the your technical responsibilities and gain design/implementation skills should pay off big in a relatively short amount of time.

kurosaki00

Sounds tempting that the new job offers more of a challenge but at the same time... it's a more challenging job for the same pay.
I would say, get some more skills/certs. And keep looking.
More work + maybe money issues + less free time for same money? I dont know...

Danielh22185

If I can get the dollar amount right then I would lean a lot more toward accepting the job. I was told their "max" was the dollar amount I make currently at my current job. However I don't know if that exactly is the full story or if they are just trying to low ball me. I have not received an offer just yet but am about to negotiate pay. I would love 10% on top of what I make currently which unfortunately is 10k more than their "max".

Think I should start at what I want anyway (even though it's over their "max")? Regardless of the other benefits? I guess with all considering if they won't accept that but settle on their "max" I would be making the "same" on base pay but also have privilege of the other benefits (bonus / profit share) that I will never get at my current job.

sillymcnasty

If 10% is 10k then you're making 100k. With an additional income from your wife, if you make 70% of the total income, she 40k. (70 percent of 140 is 98 lol).

So, assuming my numbers are right. The difference of 5k shouldn't be much. Granted I don't know your expenses. With the more responsibilities and skills, you might make more over time to offset the 5k loss now.

EANx

With the exception of large jumps, people usually don't leave one job for another only because of a raise. The single most common reason people leave it to get away from a manager or a corporate management style. If the money is roughly the same and you are otherwise satisfied with your management, leaving risks you getting involved with a management style you dislike.

Danielh22185

EANx wrote: »

With the exception of large jumps, people usually don't leave one job for another only because of a raise. The single most common reason people leave it to get away from a manager or a corporate management style. If the money is roughly the same and you are otherwise satisfied with your management, leaving risks you getting involved with a management style you dislike.

I actually want to leave to get away from crappy management among other things.

Let me lay out my current situation at my job now:

- Firstly, I am waiting on a promotion I was promised 6 months ago and so far have no timeline of when that is to actually be received. I am still struggling to get that out of my mgmt. Yet they have publically announced their own promotions. So I know the budget can't be hurting that bad if they can make larger money shifts for their salaries but not mine. So the job I would be taking (if they give me their max) would equal to the amount I would be making after I receive my promotion at my current job.

Other issues with my current job:
- I am very tied down into a silo'd operation (to be expected in very large corporate organizations). My usual and primary responsibilities are strictly just break / fix network operations with a little bit of project work regarding upgrades / preventative maintenance.
- The management structure in general is a bunch of guys that one-up themselves constantly. They 100% look out for themselves before any of the techs. They also go head hunting if major mistakes are made instead of coaching people and helping them learn from mistakes.
- I am new to my group (level 3 net ops) yet feel I am the senior engineer. The actual senior engineer is about the laziest person I have ever met. We have a standing policy that you get a work from home day after having some tenure (not available for me yet). So the senior engineer usually works from home Wednesdays. However we also work Sundays but because none of the management works that day or is in office he simply does not come in and "works from home" that day as well. Basically taking advantage of the situation. Also, my boss's work from home day is Tuesday, so the lazy jerk also screws off that day as well because he knows my boss isn't in office that day. He has been known to take a 4 and sometimes upwards of 5 hour lunch break with a couple other guys from different departments. Somehow my manager is not catching on to this... I know he has to know so it leads me to believe that he either doesn't care himself or he really is clueless. Either way that puts an awful taste in my mouth that my management allows that kind of stuff to happen and it'd extremely hard to respect that senior engineer or my manager because of that.
- I am forced to do a TON of day-to-day training for two guys that BOTH make significantly more money than I do because they came in as outside hires to the organization. I don't mind training people, infact I enjoy it but I also have a lot of work on my plate and since my company doesn't believe in training people (AT ALL) it is forced through peer training (when I have time for it). So...It puts a ton of extra pressure on me. The sad thing is that these two guys I am training feel they can't go to the senior engineer about anything for help / training because of his attitude / complete lack of focus to actually be working.
- I am also micromanaged nearly to a pulp. Because my organization is a major bank we have no freedom to potentially fix network issues, even extremely low risk things. Everything must be done via a change control (which I semi agree with if the risk is medium - high) so that adds a lot of annoyance to the job and feeling of lack of accomplishment.
- I have zero mentors. I joined my current position thinking i would be in a great spot for that. However my manager and the group of SMEs that are technically my technical escalation are hardly ever around and available / don't get involved and are far beyond approachable.
- There is no continued training / group discussions as a team to find areas of improvement for the team to learn from.

I think I have lined out the money stuff well enough at this point. So money is definitely not the main driver here but might have been the thing that has pushed me over the edge (I've actually been considering leaving for a while now, prior to joining my current team / role).

trojin

Personally I never count benefits/bonuses as part of salary.
Basic salary is what I expect to receive. All benefits and bonuses are extra.
In my current position I negotiated for 2 months before we made agreement.
I refuse to include on-call payments or possible bonus as pay rise.
I received bonus last few years and believe will receive in future but basic salary is what employer have to pay.

Relearner

Hapinness. I don't want to look like an evangelist of Life and such, but in terms of leaving a job for another I always put my hapinness at the top of the list.
I don't know about your country's salaries, taxes etcetera...but I read between lines your first post, you don't like your current job.
Yes, the change would carry 5K less for your ANNUAL income and maybe less hours with your family, but to be honest, I would rather see my father less and don't see him doubtful, thoughful or sad in return for seeing him come late but happy and full of new anecdotes and new goals.
Again I don't know you or your financial situation and you must think about your family status also not only your personal hapinness...but sometimes less money for some hapinness improves the family status more than nothing...quality of life is not only made of money

Good luck, whatever you do, it will be fine.

UncleB

trojin wrote: »

Personally I never count benefits/bonuses as part of salary.
Basic salary is what I expect to receive. All benefits and bonuses are extra.
In my current position I negotiated for 2 months before we made agreement.
I refuse to include on-call payments or possible bonus as pay rise.

This is a very good approach to comparing apples with apples - your current role has weekends and unsocial hours so this has to be factored in - I would estimate at least 20% of your current salary would be to compensate for the inconvenience of this.

Stripping out the non-bottom line items, the new job is better paid, has much more chance to develop your career across a wider range of complimentary skills than the current job and the change is often a good way to find new motivation to develop yourself further.

I recommend building a spreadsheet with one section of the bottom line figures comparing both followed by the benefits (assign them sensible values) and costs (commute, childcare etc), then the second section has the less tangible benefits in a list form - things like developing skills in area X an Y, having evenings and weekends back again, commute overhead (hassle plus time) and expected hours.

This **** all the information in a way you can see it all in one place at one time and should make it easier to weight the two in a relatively cold light. Study it, sleep on it, repeat for a day or two and then make a decision. That would be my approach.

I also think you are being lowballed on the rate by the sounds of it, so it it isn't a clear cut decision then say you will only accept for $10k above the offer otherwise thanks for your time.

volfkhat

Danielh22185 wrote: »

I also did the math on their health benefits costs and although I will adopt about $5k more in daycare costs the health care premiums are a lot lower than my current job which will only net me having to pay out an extra ~$140 a month so it's almost a wash.

So,
if it's basically a Wash.... then what are we really talking about?


You keep saying that the MAX for the "new" job's salary.... is what you ALREADY make at your "current" job.

But are you being truthful to yourself?
WHat "current" salary are you using for this comparison?

ARe you going by the salary that was in your last Paystub??

Or, are you going by that "theoretical" salary that was promised to you 6 months ago... but has Not been seen??


From the way i've read this thread.... you are doing the math using that "theoretical" salary.

Folly.


EDIT:
You've been at your current job for 5+ years.
But, you probably won't be at any of your future jobs for 5+ years.
Take the new Job.
Consider it, a Paid Internship.
Assuming they deliver on the EXP.... you should be in great shape within 30 months....

paul78

trojin wrote: »

Personally I never count benefits/bonuses as part of salary.

UncleB wrote:

This is a very good approach to comparing apples with apples

Sorry to hijack the thread but I wanted to comment on this. I have the opposite viewpoint on this. I've always looked at the whole compensation package and most importantly at the upside associated with variable compensation. For me - the variable portion of compensation is always more interesting - and performance based incentives especially if there are no caps will always catch my eye. While it may be riskier, but if a job aligns with my own skillset and I am confident with the team around me and it's a step in my career, I will always jump on that type of job.

IronmanX

"Firstly, I am waiting on a promotion I was promised 6 months ago and so far have no timeline of when that is to actually be received. I am still struggling to get that out of my mgmt. Yet they have publically announced their own promotions. So I know the budget can't be hurting that bad if they can make larger money shifts for their salaries but not mine. So the job I would be taking (if they give me their max) would equal to the amount I would be making after I receive my promotion at my current job. "
"BOTH make significantly more money than I do because they came in as outside hires to the organization. "

Do some market research.
Is 10% above what your making reasonable? if it is I would just say no I can not accept anything less then what I make plus 10%.
What do people use for market research? Glassdoor?


I get the feeling if you do make the switch and fine out there are other guys there making more with less skills you will have the same feeling towards the new company that you do now towards your current place of work.

Danielh22185

IronmanX wrote: »

"Firstly, I am waiting on a promotion I was promised 6 months ago and so far have no timeline of when that is to actually be received. I am still struggling to get that out of my mgmt. Yet they have publically announced their own promotions. So I know the budget can't be hurting that bad if they can make larger money shifts for their salaries but not mine. So the job I would be taking (if they give me their max) would equal to the amount I would be making after I receive my promotion at my current job. "
"BOTH make significantly more money than I do because they came in as outside hires to the organization. "

Do some market research.
Is 10% above what your making reasonable? if it is I would just say no I can not accept anything less then what I make plus 10%.
What do people use for market research? Glassdoor?


I get the feeling if you do make the switch and fine out there are other guys there making more with less skills you will have the same feeling towards the new company that you do now towards your current place of work.

I am not really looking for my pay to be equal to that of my peers. I am just looking to be treated equally. 10% is perfectly within reason for my level of experience and education based on some research I have done so far.


I really want this job for what it has to offer experience wise but don't want to take a step backwards on pay. I am thinking the best thing for me to do is to just put out my number as I originally wanted. That way when / if they come back with a lower counter I can negotiate very close to if not spot on what their max is which would be acceptable for me. Since I already have a job I don't feel I should let the potential of not getting what I feel is fair push me into a negative negotiation scenario. Worst case scenario I will just keep grinding away at my current job.

TechGuru80

Cliff notes:
1. Family depends on you for income
2. New job is at least $5k less in value to #1
3. New job gives you more exposure, but pay ranges in general seem to be lower than current company

---

Sounds like you should stay in your current job and try to find something that pays at least $5k more. A good rule of thumb is to avoid jumping ship for anything less than 10% pay increase. Ideally you want to make the big jumps like 15%, 20%, 30% when possible but it depends on what kind of year end bonuses, promotion potential, and salary increases are normal at your organization.

Frankly, potential bonus and profit sharing are always the "dreams" they will try to sell you on but nothing is guaranteed....salary/benefits should always be your most important factor because that is what is guaranteed.

Danielh22185

TechGuru80 wrote: »

Cliff notes:
1. Family depends on you for income
2. New job is at least $5k less in value to #1
3. New job gives you more exposure, but pay ranges in general seem to be lower than current company

---

Sounds like you should stay in your current job and try to find something that pays at least $5k more. A good rule of thumb is to avoid jumping ship for anything less than 10% pay increase. Ideally you want to make the big jumps like 15%, 20%, 30% when possible but it depends on what kind of year end bonuses, promotion potential, and salary increases are normal at your organization.

Frankly, potential bonus and profit sharing are always the "dreams" they will try to sell you on but nothing is guaranteed....salary/benefits should always be your most important factor because that is what is guaranteed.

Exactly! Granted the job may end up being a better opportunity for me to learn / grow but I am also taking on a risk leaving my current company. Whereas I have tenure at my current job and safe seniority. More or less I wanted to feel people out with this thread too. Am I crazy asking for a bit more money when it is well within the market value? I feel even settling on a no pay increase (even though the opportunity might be a bit better) is kinda selling myself short. In the end we all work for MONEY.

NetworkNewb

Meh, money doesn't buy happiness. At least after a point... Study: Money Buys Happiness When Income Is $75,000 - TIME

Verities

Danielh22185 wrote: »

Exactly! Granted the job may end up being a better opportunity for me to learn / grow but I am also taking on a risk leaving my current company. Whereas I have tenure at my current job and safe seniority. More or less I wanted to feel people out with this thread too. Am I crazy asking for a bit more money when it is well within the market value? I feel even settling on a no pay increase (even though the opportunity might be a bit better) is kinda selling myself short. In the end we all work for MONEY.

Agreed with TechGuru, leaving for anything less than a 15%-20% raise is absolutely not worth it considering the amount of risk involved. Based on the rest of your post, what is stopping you from actively applying for other positions in your area?

Danielh22185

Well I figured I would go with my gut and ask for the number I want to be at, at least start the negotiations at my desired pay. If they come in lower I at least have the bonus to consider and might be able to negotiate other items such as signing bonus, continued education / training, etc. I should find out what they come back with here soon.

As a side note I wanted to continue this thread not only for other's input but so other an learn from my present situation as well. I'll update when I hear more.

Danielh22185

Well I got some feedback. Unfortunately the hiring manager didn't even want to attempt to negotiate pay with me. Bummer... I really wish I would have at least had the chance to talk to them about pay before they just toss me out. My only guess is they would not have even been able to come close to what I wanted / make now.

c5rookie

My thoughts on the situation would be to stay where you are at. I'm not sure which part of Dallas you're in, but I presume they have a growing IT presence. I would inform the recruiter that you're declining but would reconsider if the salary was closer to XXXXX. Maybe they will still see you as a solid fit and after a couple weeks reach out again with a higher offer. If not, keep your eyes open for similar positions and see what they have to offer for learning potential and career growth.
On a different topic, would relocation be an option? I know San Antonio is growing rapidly, and if you have a gov't clearance, people get picked up quick.

TechGuru80

I start off every first contact (HR screen or initial interview) by asking what the pay range is or what they are trying to bring somebody in at...nothing worse than getting to the end of the deal to find out the pay is nowhere near the ballpark. Sometimes people will tell you and are transparent, but more often they end up asking what you are looking for...either way have a good number.