Who else thinks cert expiration is just another money grab?

9bits9bits Posts: 138Member
Who else thinks cert expiration is just another money grab?

Comments

  • GSXR750K2GSXR750K2 Posts: 325Member
    I haven't followed it very closely, but I from what I think I know, Microsoft's new annual "renewal" model works under that premise. It will say "MC-Whatever 2017", and if you don't mess with anything for 10 years after that, it will be very hard to pass off as current and/or relevant. Someone correct me if I'm mistaken.

    Similar to your example, I recently let all of my Cisco certs expire because I've never been in a position that warranted the level of knowledge, so I no longer saw a reason to keep relearning things I had forgotten just to renew the certs.
  • JoJoCal19JoJoCal19 California Kid Posts: 2,780Mod Mod
    I'm fine with cert renewals, I just hate the annual dues (CISSP, CISM, GXXX, etc). I'm going to have to start a slush fund to keep my certs/memberships renewed.
    Have: CISSP, CISM, CISA, CRISC, eJPT, GCIA, GSEC, CCSP, CCSK, AWS CSAA, AWS CCP, CEHv8, CHFIv8, ITIL-F, MS Cyber Security - USF, BSBA - UF, MSISA - WGU
    Currently Working On: Python, OSCP Prep
    Next Up:​ OSCP
    Studying:​ Code Academy (Python), Bash Scripting, Virtual Hacking Lab Coursework
  • Danielm7Danielm7 Posts: 2,245Member ■■■■■■■□□□
    Well, the first time you take the cert test it's a money grab too, they're a business, but the first time we feel like we got the big benefit / ROI with learning and employment options. Past that it starts to become aggravating, especially as Jojocal19 said, paying the annual fees. I have trouble believing that ISC2 is providing much for the $85/year to maintain the CISSP outside of not having to retake a $600 exam. On the plus side, my manager just expensed his cert annual maintenance costs and said I could too, it's minor but it's a nice gesture.
  • E Double UE Double U Posts: 1,541Member ■■■■■■■■□□
    I have never had anyone ask if my certs were current and I don't list the dates on my CV. I think when people look at my resume they see the certs match my experience and are happy with that. I'll renew anything that continues to make sense (CISSP) and let others expire if they no longer serve a purpose (CCNP Security).

    Sure it is a money grab, but since it helps me make money I'll play ball.
    Alphabet soup: CISSP, CCSP, CISM, CISA, GPEN, GCIA, GCIH, GCCC, CEH, etc

    "You tried your best and you failed miserably. The lesson is, never try." - Homer Simpson
  • E Double UE Double U Posts: 1,541Member ■■■■■■■■□□
    Because of this thread I just asked my manager could I expense my annual maintenance fees and the response was yes. So I will continue to play ball icon_cheers.gif
    Alphabet soup: CISSP, CCSP, CISM, CISA, GPEN, GCIA, GCIH, GCCC, CEH, etc

    "You tried your best and you failed miserably. The lesson is, never try." - Homer Simpson
  • Terminator XTerminator X Posts: 60Member ■■□□□□□□□□
    I too don't necessarily agree with the dues, however I will continue to pay and keep all certs current. It's better to have it and not need it, than need it and not have it. For DoD, they will verify your certifications are current for positions that require a particular certification.
    -Tact is for those not witty enough to be sarcastic-
    ~Unknown
  • bigdogzbigdogz Posts: 522Member ■■■■□□□□□□
    OK... the college process will give you fundamentals and some work on the newer tools.
    IT certifications change more rapidly. I have my old, CCNA, a NetWare CNE 6.5, Windows MCSE from the 3.51 and 4.0 days... what good does it do me?
    I now have some old fancy toilet paper in a frame.... somewhere.

    Try to perform a search on Monster or Dice on some of the old certs you currently have. If anything pops up, I know I sure would not want to work there. Old antiquated technology that may or may not work... ( no offense but it may match the description of the employees up to the owner) It's not 1998. Everybody is looking to get better, faster, stronger. Hackers are not just guys living with their parents breaking into games. They are breaking into your work environment... from the basement. LOL... There is also state sponsored hacking. This is no joke any longer. You have to work to keep your own toys in your sandbox.

    Working for a MSP / MSSP I have to constantly learn new technologies and my certs make me more marketable. If you do want to update your certifications, it's only a matter of time before someone else with less experience takes your job for less money.

    Most companies will pay for your training and dues. They will be more than happy to write them off if you don't.
  • IristheangelIristheangel CCIEx2 (Sec + DC), CCNP RS, CCNA V/S/R/DC, CISSP, CEH, MCSE 2003, A+/L+/N+/S+, and a lot more from m Pasadena, CAPosts: 4,116Mod Mod
    It has to do with ANSI credentialing for certification programs. That's why CompTIA ended up going towards an expiring model. They wanted to be taking more seriously and it does help meet some government regulations and standards to be ANSI accredited. You'll notice most of those certs that expire are in part so the company can meet ANSI standards:
    - Cisco: https://www.ansi.org/accreditation/credentialing/personnel-certification/AllDirectoryDetails?&prgID=201&OrgId=112&statusID=4
    - Comptia: https://www.ansi.org/accreditation/credentialing/personnel-certification/AllDirectoryDetails?&prgID=201&OrgId=93&statusID=4

    As you can see here, as part of the accreditation program, it requires a "certification is valid for a specific time period. A certification program has ongoing requirements for maintaining proficiency or competency, and can be revoked if ongoing requirements are not met." https://www.ansi.org/Accreditation/credentialing/

    It might not mean as much that a certificate is ANSI accredited on a personal level but it does in some professional circles as well as government bodies.
    BS, MS, and CCIE #50931
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  • blargoeblargoe Self-Described Huguenot NC, USAPosts: 4,170Member ■■■■■■■■■□
    The vendor is certifying that you are have a certain level of proficiency on their platform. It is in their best interest to require some upkeep to continue certifying you as having that level of proficiency.

    Whether it is worth the cost to you for them to assert that you are proficient is something only you can answer. I have answered yes in some cases and no in other cases, personally.
    IT guy since 12/00

    Recent: 2/2019 - Updated VCP to 6.5 (just a few days before VMware discontinued the re-cert policy...)
    Working on: RHCSA 7, learning Ansible
    Future: RHCE? VCAP6.5-DCD?
  • OctalDumpOctalDump Posts: 1,722Member
    I don't see the big deal. Typically people will keep certs current almost incidentally. For example, if you keep pursuing Cisco certs, they tend to just accrue. Same with VMware. This is true to some extent for CompTIA, too. My guess is that most people don't go out of their way to renew certs, it just kind of happens. People generally will let certs lapse when they no longer provide value - you've moved on to higher level certs, or changed areas, or have a lot of work experience or professional reputation to provide evidence of your competency.

    I believe in the ANSI/ISO standard. IT moves fast, and a certification is about certify your competence in a particular tech or area of IT. If the technology has changed, or the core competencies are different, or you've just forgotten, then you really can't say that your skills are certified. To add to that, I think that IT really needs more professionalism - like engineers, doctors, lawyers, accountants - and part of being a professional is staying current and engaging in ongoing professional development.
    2017 Goals - Something Cisco, Something Linux, Agile PM
  • dontstopdontstop Posts: 569Member ■■■■□□□□□□
    You look at someone's resume, they have a B.S. in Computer Science. You can get a rough idea of how relevant it is by when they got it. Does it say 1970 or 2010

    I'll tell you something for nothing. Most Universities have not changed their CS curriculum much in the past 20 years. Our University only just moved from teaching to C to Java and that's a "big thing" for them. I'll agree with others that the University Degree although not very relevant to the industry does have the advantage in that what useless information it does teach you... is fairly timeless.

    Just to give some perspective, the Universities are so vendor neutral in some faculties that I did a Degree in Network & Systems Management and we had 1 class which had 1 lab (2 hours) on using Cisco gear in a whole 4 year Degree.
  • dhay13dhay13 Posts: 580Member ■■■□□□□□□□
    I have no problem with renewals through CPE's/CEU's. I got my A+ and N+ in 2010 when they were still lifetime. I never did any type of studying or follow-up after that because I didn't have to. The only time I even thought about any of that was when it applied to what I had going on at work (which wasn't often). I started realizing how much I forgot. Since I did the Sec+ it has now converted those to the standard CE and now with the CISSP I am constantly learning even if it an attempt to gain CPE's. I might still complete courses or whatever it may be but I think I do more now than I would if I didn't 'have' to. I think it forces people to continue to learn and advance themselves.
  • dontstopdontstop Posts: 569Member ■■■■□□□□□□
    Could you also imagine the brain dumpers getting a lifetime cert?
  • SweenMachineSweenMachine Posts: 288Member ■■■□□□□□□□
    Additionally, anyone who thinks certifications are a profit center for a company doesn't know how business works. How much revenue do you think Microsoft or Cisco makes off of certifications when you compare it to the other forms a revenue? It is not a 'money grab' in any stretch of the word. The motivation for charging is essentially to break even on the development and overhead maintenance on making sure enough qualified candidates on their technology stay in the workforce.

    Look at it this way. Have you looked at the MCP portal? Now look at the most recent Office365. Notice how, well, the MCP portal looks like no money has been dumped into it but Office365 is consistently evolving? One of those is making them money, the other is not.

    -scott
  • RogueAdminRogueAdmin Posts: 12Member ■□□□□□□□□□
    In theory, it makes sense. In practice, cert renewal process is inconsistent.

    Cisco's way of renewing when another higher level cert is obtained makes sense. Too, Cisco requires their partners to have appropriate, currently certified pros. Again, makes sense and incentive is built-in.

    CISSP and PMP like the professional development approach. Again, this makes sense. Bar isn't too high or too low for a professional actually using those capabilities.

    @dontstop: I shudder at that thought of brain dumpers getting certs for life.
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