Well I Screwed Up that Interview!

Daneil3144

Phone Interviewer: (Towards the end of the 30 minute phone interview - that I thought was going good): What's a good starting pay?
Me: Around $22 an hour - 45k a year (This is for a Junior Sys Admin position where they only request an A+ and Network +)
Interviewer: Well, that's a little low, don't you think?
Me: Trying to be conservative..
Interviewer: Well starting pay is actually $30 - $40 an hour. (Then goes to talk about my inexperience, while thanking me for being 'conservative' and refers to another department in the company that may be hiring - but they still may keep me in the running)

Then why even ask me?

Deus Ex Machina

I personally hate the fact that interviewers can ask you that question. Puts you in an unfair conflict of interests, salary negotiations should occur after you've been hired as the most qualified person for the job.

I wouldn't beat myself too much if I were you, maybe the company wasn't gonna work for you anyways, judging from what the interviewer said afterwards. And in the future, if you get that question again, dance around it like its a camp fire

NetworkNewb

That is weird, turning someone away cause they think the position should pay less then it does? Never know though. Could still have a chance.

If I get asked how much I'm looking for I always give a range. The lowest number in that range being what you want to get paid for that position. Gotta give them opportunity for them to pay you more then you expected.

Daneil3144

Deus Ex Machina wrote: »

I wouldn't beat myself too much if I were you,

That's all I've been doing, is beating myself up for the past hour.

Prior to his 'inexperience' spill, after we discussed pay; he inquired about notice needed for current employer if selected and days that I have off for 2nd interview.

scenicroute

Most likely they just have a set list of questions they have to ask. I doubt your answer on salary will affect whether or not you get the job.

p@r0tuXus

Wow, $30-40/hr for an A+/N+ requisite position. I wonder what the job was. And where it was. And can I apply? LoL Seriously, that is a weird way for the interviewer to handle that scenario. Maybe they thought if you were asking that much less than what they anticipated that you might not have the skills they required? idk.

$30-40/hr = 62-82K/yr. Best JR admin job ever.

dhay13

Yeah really. I don't even get paid that with 10 years of experience

revbox

I would Junior Admin all over that **** for 62 K a year.

Bokeh

I'd ask them what can someone with my level of experience/education expect to make at the company? Put it back on them. Let them throw out first numbers.

Verities

Daneil3144 wrote: »

Phone Interviewer: (Towards the end of the 30 minute phone interview - that I thought was going good): What's a good starting pay?
Me: Around $22 an hour - 45k a year (This is for a Junior Sys Admin position where they only request an A+ and Network +)
Interviewer: Well, that's a little low, don't you think?
Me: Trying to be conservative..
Interviewer: Well starting pay is actually $30 - $40 an hour. (Then goes to talk about my inexperience, while thanking me for being 'conservative' and refers to another department in the company that may be hiring - but they still may keep me in the running)

Then why even ask me?

Don't beat yourself up over his words because that interviewer was a jack ass. That whole interaction on his part was completely unprofessional and unnecessary.

yoba222

So it sounds like you haven't actually blown the interview.
It's also possible that HR confused the position and pay, as $40/hr sounds unusually high for Jr. sys admin. HR can be easily confused and it's a good idea to have low expectations of competence from them. Maybe in Cupertino or someplace like that I suppose.

DatabaseHead

This is common from my experiences. It's implied that if you are looking for x and x being much lower than where they bench marked the position you are not a good candidate for the position.

Blucodex

DatabaseHead wrote: »

This is common from my experiences. It's implied that if you are looking for x and x being much lower than were they bench marked the position you are not a good candidate for the position.

If a company really wants you they won't flinch if you ask for fair pay. By being too conservative you are telling them you lack confidence in your skills.

volfkhat

Daneil3144 wrote: »

Me: Around $22 an hour - 45k a year (This is for a Junior Sys Admin position where they only request an A+ and Network +)
..
Interviewer: Well starting pay is actually $30 - $40 an hour. (Then goes to talk about my inexperience, while thanking me for being 'conservative' and refers to another department in the company that may be hiring - but they still may keep me in the running)

FLAG!!

How much experience are you expected to have for a JUNIOR admin role?
and, if they wanted someone more knowledgeable, they would probably be asking for a mcsa/rhcsa

Sounds like these guys are mixed up.
Interviewer wants one thing; but HR posted for another.

shrug

DatabaseHead

Blucodex wrote: »

If a company really wants you they won't flinch if you ask for fair pay. By being too conservative you are telling them you lack confidence in your skills.

This is a more eloquent way of putting it, but agree nonetheless.

brewboy

"refers to another department in the company that may be hiring"

Wow what a jerk!!!

Nik 99

Junior system admin with only A+ and N+? what the hell. Wish I saw roles like that in the uk.

TheFORCE

I was listening to a webex about pay negotiations some time ago and they said the following.
"The person that gives a number first, is the one rhay loses"

Ask them what the range of the job is, then you can give your number based on the number of the range they gave you. But never give a number first.

SweenMachine

TheFORCE wrote: »

I was listening to a webex about pay negotiations some time ago and they said the following.
"The person that gives a number first, is the one rhay loses"

Ask them what the range of the job is, then you can give your number based on the number of the range they gave you. But never give a number first.

Agreed!

My go to, when asked either what I make at my current role my response was simple. When asked what I make at my current employer I would say "My current position pays in line with my skill-set. I am actually more interested on your thoughts on where you are at for THIS position" - or when asked specifically about what I am hoping to get I always said "Well, I haven't done my overhead calculations yet but let's see if we are in the same ball par" and ask them for the salary range.

Recruiters are SO used to the routine, that they freeze up when you have confidence and intent behind YOUR questioning.

Daneil3144

Verities wrote: »

That whole interaction on his part was completely unprofessional and unnecessary.

Funny, you state this. I regret honestly answering his questions about my age and if I had kids.

Bokeh wrote: »

I'd ask them what can someone with my level of experience/education expect to make at the company? Put it back on them. Let them throw out first numbers.

I love this! I will stash it in my repertoire.

DatabaseHead wrote: »

This is common from my experiences. It's implied that if you are looking for x and x being much lower than where they bench marked the position you are not a good candidate for the position.

This is the exact perspective I took from this interview.

Blucodex wrote: »

If a company really wants you they won't flinch if you ask for fair pay. By being too conservative you are telling them you lack confidence in your skills.

Well, conservative is just the 'word vomit' when he said, it was too low. That wasn't the response I was expecting from him. He essentially described Tier 2 support, and that is the exact wording he used. "Tier 2" Confidence wasn't the issue. 45k was just the sweet spot for this 'position,' based on all my research. Description states "1-2 years’ experience with MS windows client operating systems;" who would have figured that meant an 80k job?

volfkhat wrote: »

Sounds like these guys are mixed up.
Interviewer wants one thing; but HR posted for another.

This! All of this! Because he what he described was basic responsibility. Hell straight from the description of the job. And the guy interviewing me would have been my supervisor, not HR.

• Basic monitoring and diagnosis of basic network services.
  
• Basic monitoring and diagnosis of Server issues including the services they provide to the network environment.
  
• Basic monitoring and support of VOIP telecom systems.

paul78

Daneil3144 wrote: »

Funny, you state this. I regret honestly answering his questions about my age and if I had kids.

I assume you are in the US. Reading through snippets of your interaction - it sounds like you interviewed with someone that is inexperienced. For one thing - most interviewers would never ask you your age or parental status. Was this a phone or in-person interview? While asking age doesn't necessarily violate ADEA, it can be difficult for any interviewer to have a compelling reason to ask it and it could be illegal in some jurisdictions. It's kind of baseline knowledge for any hiring manager to be aware of prohibited questions.

I don't actually think you blew it at all. You were honest and each interview is a learning experience. And given that the interviewer sounds very inexperienced, you never really know what could happen. Good luck with your next interview.

TheForce wrote:

"The person that gives a number first, is the one rhay loses"

Not to change the subject - but I have always thought that to be a terrible generalization. It could easily also be that "the person that give the number first, controls the negotiation."

DatabaseHead

HRIS 101

There are datafeeds that almost all HR reps have access to. This data includes, titles, min, median, max pay etc etc etc. If you are negotiating for a software engineer position and the min is 100,000 a year and you offer 40,000 this throws a huge red flag. I recently was turned down for a BI developer position due to this. The range I found out later was 150,000 - 200,000 and I offered to come in at 110,000. Recruiter told me I was turned down to lack of experience one of the KPI's was my asking price.

TheFORCE

paul78 wrote: »

Not to change the subject - but I have always thought that to be a terrible generalization. It could easily also be that "the person that give the number first, controls the negotiation."

How can you control the negotiation when you have no information about the base salary? If I was asked the question and said looking for 80k, they would say, this position pays 50k at which I'd say thank you see you later.
Now if they said this position has a range of 80-100k, i just lowballed myself. Now if they said the range first, I can easily say I'm looking for 90k to be competitive and at the same time ask 10k extra of what I would have asked.

You would need to have some knowlege of the salary in advance in order to give the number first. I gave a number first at my last interview but i knew they lower bound in advance and in that situation it didnt hurt me.

jrisbrook

you would be surprised how far an A+ and Net+ can get you if you are applying to the right company. Just a Net+ got me good money . Being conservative in salary means you lack an idea of what the going rate is for your position and makes you come off as lacking in confidence as well as common knowledge. Normally you give a strong number and after you give your number you ask what the salary range is. I've found good success in that. Especially talking to recruiters. When i would say I won't take any less than that number they've never said no. I'm also a great phone interviewer though, so I know I make a good first impression. Confidence is always key! Sell yourself! You are the best man/woman for the job and make sure they know it...

paul78

TheFORCE wrote: »

How can you control the negotiation when you have no information about the base salary?

I always do my research on a prospective employer and understand the value of any role that I'm interested in. And I also know the value that I can offer to an employer. Ultimately, there has to be a match and it has to be equitable for both parties. I don't really care if an employer has a higher budget if I get what I want. I've always preferred roles with variable compensation so the base salary is usually less of a concern. I've always been satisfied that I was fairly compensated so my style works for me - it may not for others.

TheFORCE wrote: »

Now if they said this position has a range of 80-100k, i just lowballed myself. Now if they said the range first, I can easily say I'm looking for 90k to be competitive and at the same time ask 10k extra of what I would have asked.

That doesn't make you more competitive, that makes you more expensive.

Also - I've always chuckled when people ask what is the range for a position. As a hiring manager, I don't have a floor, I have a ceiling. And I don't mind disclosing that if asked. But I would always caveat that I have flexibility in case the candidate is fabulous. Frankly because if I paid more for talent then I have higher expectations of that individual, so it really doesn't matter to me as long as I get the value. The reality is that in orgs with a performance culture, productivity and value of employees are evaluated relative to each other anyways so comp will get adjusted either way.

@OP - sorry about taking it off-topic.

yoba222

I'm fairly certain that asking age, marital status, number of kids is straight up illegal during interviews in the US. Maybe to verify over 18 could slide.

soletek

I know you research the pay for the job but did you take a look to see what the company actually pay their employees? Is the company known for paying their empoyees well? I know some companies pay people top dollar while some will pay bottom dollar. Sometimes glass door, indeed reviews can help. Or reviewing some of the company past job postings.

SaSkiller

I know I threw a number out at one position and they said it was too low and put me in at a higher bracket. It was a decent bump so I was happy. I've never been all that interested in getting the most money possible.

Daneil3144

brewboy wrote: »

"refers to another department in the company that may be hiring"

Wow what a jerk!!!

Well, I finally got the e-mail from that other IT Department that is hiring. It isn't the Junior Admin position, but their help desk, for a vacancy in the near future, from a different IT manager.

Just trying to figure out how to word the reply, thanks but no thanks...since the help desk position would be a lateral job move.

paul78

Hey - at least you got a response. You may as well hear out what they have to say. If they haven't told you what it's about yet, you can always decline after you understand what the job entails. Good luck.

p@r0tuXus

Lateral move but probably with more pay, right? I mean, 60-80k for a Jr. Admin.... Helpdesk pays what, 40-50? lol