Ouch

EricOEricO Member Posts: 93 ■■□□□□□□□□

Comments

  • WebmasterWebmaster Admin Posts: 10,292 Admin
    That's a silly article and seems to have only the purpose of filling space on eweek.com. It's like saying: oranges got bigger and more tasty, so apples don't taste as good anymore. Which is only true relatively speaking. We all know certifications aren't as valuable as they used to be, that's no news and it doesn't require a survey and study to figure that one out.

    "Perhaps more to the point, they are finding other qualities of IT professionals more critical to their businesses going forward, and they are willing to pay more for those."
    But surely, in general, candidates with those 'other qualities' 'and' certifications will get the job instead of the non-certified individual. No employer will choose a resume without MCSE over one with an MCSE for a Microsoft system admin job, for example, if everything else is equal.

    According to the article, the MCT (Microsoft Certified Trainer) has grown in value, which likely indicates a higher demand for MCTs, which in turn indicates a higher demand for certifications...

    CompTIA, Cisco, and Microsoft keep releasing new certs, and the fact that non-certified individuals are more in demand and can get a higher pay for their skills than before, doesn't make these certifications any less popular or valuable.
  • 12thlevelwarrior12thlevelwarrior Member Posts: 302
    Just got some more info on Foote. LOL He stated this in an article in Jan 06

    What tends to happen when there is strong demand for a particular skill set is this: Employers seek the right people, and those with a certificate to prove they have that skill set get picked up first. Such is the demand that they can also command a premium salary over those without the certification. But because demand is so high, there are plenty of people without the certification – but with the necessary skills – who also pick up jobs. A certification, in other words, gets you higher pay, and that's where you get a return on your investment. "Most certifications get you a 8.5 percent bump in pay on average, while top ones, like Cisco's CCIE, will get you well beyond that with about a 10 - 15 percent pay premium," says David Foote, chief research officer at New Canaan, Connecticut-based Foote Partners.

    LOL, I love how things get so twisted just to get people to read it. Here is
    the link to the story in Jan 06 which glorifies certs. LOL, which is it???

    http://itmanagement.earthweb.com/career/article.php/3575661

    LOL, it's called "play the certification game to win"! LOLOLOLOL icon_lol.gif
    Every man dies, not every man really lives.
  • Megadeth4168Megadeth4168 Member Posts: 2,157
    Every Job I've applied for had requirements for certain certs just to get interviewed.
  • garv221garv221 Member Posts: 1,914
    They didn't take into consideration all the people who are certified and have no expeirence, that will slump the numbers. Those people will not get a job over an experienced candidate with no certs.
  • TeKniquesTeKniques OSCE, OSCP, CISSP, CISA, SSCP, MCSE (03), Security+, Network+, A+, Project+ Member Posts: 1,262 ■■■■□□□□□□
    I don't put too much faith in most polls and surveys as they can be set up to get the results you want. I see much of the same with this. I think garv221 hit the nail dead center.
  • osiris951osiris951 Member Posts: 1 ■□□□□□□□□□
    A degree + certifications is the key. icon_wink.gif
  • sprkymrksprkymrk Member Posts: 4,884 ■■■□□□□□□□
    osiris951 wrote:
    A degree + certifications is the key. icon_wink.gif

    Ah yes... but some will then bring up the "everyone requires 3-5 years experience" argument. So really:
    Cert + Degree + 3-5 years experience is the key... right?

    But wait, there's more! How about the "It's not what you know, but who you know" line? Many claim that you have to know somebody on the inside to get your foot in the door.

    It's really a matter of trying to stack the deck in your favor as much as possible. There really is no silver-bullet in the industry. Some value experience, others value college degrees, some value certifictions more. And then some places prefer to hire by reference (knowing someone), figuring that a person's character counts for more than the other qualifications because they can train you to acquire the right skills for the job, but you have to be trust worthy and a known hard worker with good social skills first. So:
    Cert+Degree+Experience+have an uncle named Bill Gates=Good Job Prospect icon_lol.gificon_lol.gif :P :P
    All things are possible, only believe.
  • Silver BulletSilver Bullet Member Posts: 676
    sprkymrk wrote:
    There really is no silver-bullet in the industry.

    Why sure there is....... I am in the industry. icon_lol.gif
  • sprkymrksprkymrk Member Posts: 4,884 ■■■□□□□□□□
    sprkymrk wrote:
    There really is no silver-bullet in the industry.

    Why sure there is....... I am in the industry. icon_lol.gif

    Okay, sorry I forgot about you and the Lone Ranger SB... Good one! icon_lol.gif
    All things are possible, only believe.
  • JDMurrayJDMurray MSIT InfoSec CISSP SSCP GSOM GSEC EnCE C|EH Cloud+ CySA+ CASP+ PenTest+ Security+ Surf City, USAAdmin Posts: 12,673 Admin
    It's a statistical anomaly which means nothing. 18 months ago (in the USA) there were many people looking for work, but very few jobs being offered (I was looking for work at that time, so I remember). The few people that were hired were picked for the "extras" that they had, which included their certifications. Now, 18 months later, there are more jobs than people, so almost anybody can get a job regardless of having certifications or not. This has the affect of "watering down" the ratio of certified versus non-certified people hired.

    These types of statistics are worthless unless they also consider the hiring situation (i.e., number of people looking for work compared to the number of jobs being offered) at the time. Another factor that is rarely considered is that there will always be far more workers WITHOUT certifications than with.
  • sprkymrksprkymrk Member Posts: 4,884 ■■■□□□□□□□
    jdmurray wrote:
    It's a statistical anomaly which means nothing.
    It's not an anomoly actually. These kinds of trends happen quite often. It actually does mean something, it just doesn't mean that their conclusion based on the statistics gathered are correct.
    jdmurray wrote:
    18 months ago (in the USA) there were many people looking for work, but very few jobs being offered (I was looking for work at that time, so I remember). The few people that were hired were picked for the "extras" that they had, which included their certifications. Now, 18 months later, there are more jobs than people, so almost anybody can get a job regardless of having certifications or not.
    According to www.bls.gov, unemployment as of March 06 was at 4.7%. In Nov 04 it was 5.4%. While that is a decent difference, I don't think it qualifies as "almost anybody can get a job" now vs then. The fact is, the job market, especially in IT, is tough.
    jdmurray wrote:
    These types of statistics are worthless unless they also consider the hiring situation (i.e., number of people looking for work compared to the number of jobs being offered) at the time.
    Here I would agree with you 100%. I also agree that the article draws some stupid conclusions. And finally I agree that you can make statistics and polls say whatever you want them to say.

    However, I still say:
    sprkymrk wrote:
    Cert+Degree+Experience+have an uncle named Bill Gates=Good Job Prospect icon_lol.gificon_lol.gif :P :P

    icon_wink.gif
    All things are possible, only believe.
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