Move Now, Get Job Later?

GSXR750K2

As the title indicates, I'm heavily considering relocating without securing a position first. I thought it was an interesting coincidence that DatabaseHead's Unemployed Need Not Apply thread showed up yesterday as that is a potential consequence I've considered.

There are lots of reasons as to the why, but I didn't figure you guys wanted to read a book. Suffice it to say, most of the time I'm told they want local applicants, and when I do make it through to F2F interviews, I'm beat out by a "local" candidate of equal skill (at least per feedback), but not always. One of the times I drove to Dallas (four hours each way) for an interview, it came down to me and one other guy...he won because he had more Exchange experience, so if someone is better, then fair is fair. I'd rather hear I'm a complete moron than for them to elude to the fact that the other guy is just closer.

To circumvent the "local applicants only" deal, of which I've seen three times on DICE today in the areas I've been considering, I'm leaning towards relocating first, then looking.

Please share your thoughts, suggestions, or ridicule...you won't hurt my feelings.

-EDIT-

Some extra context. My area is drying up and there aren't many quality opportunities, and even if there were, the city is losing residents at a steady rate per year, so it's not a place I want to be now or will want to be later.

scaredoftests

SEND your resumes out before the move. See if there are any bites.

TheFORCE

Find a job before the move. Connect with Linked in recruiters at the new area you wish to find a position. That way you have someone working for you at the new area.

JockVSJock

I would recommend getting a PO Box say at a UPS or FedEx store, that way it appears on your resume that you are local to area/region. Typically there is a monthly charge for the PO Box

You could also use Google Voice to get a local area code too.

I did both and that helped me secure a job in a different city.

kiki162

@GSXR750K2 Texas has a really good IT market - especially in the Austin area. Not sure how far you are from Dallas, but I think moving would be a good start.

I can totally understand the need to move. Last time I had to move to another state, I was also in between jobs. Where I was moving to, I knew that the jobs were going to be slim and I was going to have to travel at least 2 hrs round trip each day. Once I did get a job, I did that travel time for 3.5 years till I moved 1/2 closer to my work. In total that job lasted for 5 years, and even with the travel time cut in half, I'd still have to deal with traffic.

Wherever it is that you are looking to move too, see what types of jobs are around. Go get a POBox if need be or a local number. Look at other opportunities as well that involve traveling or working from home. I'm not sure what type of background you have other than the certs posted, but you may need to consider branching your skills set out. Before I got into my current job, one of the things I was running into was that I was "hitting the wall" and that I've been doing sysadmin work for 10+ yrs at that point. I wanted to get into the infosec world, and was going to have to do some work to get there. Took a good year to get a few extra certs, but I did it.

My point to you is this, I've been there. Don't try to over extend yourself to get a job. Remember, Our field is always changing, and we need to change with it. Rethink your strategy, take a different path, and eventually, you'll get there.

GSXR750K2

Thanks, all.

@TheFORCE:

I know...every fiber of my being is telling me this is the correct path, but I feel it may not be the right one. My job has slowed down so much due to economy and the city shrinking, and there are no plans, projects, or goals in the works or even being considered. We aren't in financial trouble, it's just that any and all progress has been slowing and is now at a stop. Being severely underutilized and babysitting things that rarely break is wearing me down when I know I could be contributing to something that has a purpose.

@scared/@Jock:

I have been reaching out to recruiters (ugh, I know) in the areas I'm considering to see if there's anything that can be set in motion. Some I haven't talked to since before I started the M.S., so I'm hoping that will give a little bit of leverage when being considered by clients. There one position I'm waiting to hear about a few hours away, they should be shortlisting in the next week, but until something comes of it, I'm operating under the assumption nothing will come of it.

I like the PO Box idea. A friend of mine once offered to let me use his street address (he's since moved, however), but my concern was scheduling interviews since I'm a minimum of 2 hours away from a potential city.

@kiki:

I like Texas a lot and take my girlfriend down for ball games and whatnot a couple times a year. I haven't looked at Austin in depth, but I'll add it to my list to consider. A friend of mine in San Antonio has been trying to get me to move there, but I'm finding more developer jobs than anything (at least last time I looked), and my C# skills are novice at best.

I do have other skills that I could probably sell better (retooling my LinkedIn profile and resume this morning) but the certs for some of them have expired, so I've removed them from TE. For example, until February of this year, I had several Cisco certs, but since I was finishing the degree and I really couldn't find a use for the Cisco skills in my area (a side effect of businesses closing/moving out over the past few years), I didn't bother recerting. A lack of large environment VMware experience has been a major sticking point in every area I've looked, so I'm pursuing that at the moment...Hyper-V/VMM and vSphere share just about everything in common, they just go about it in different ways, so I'm hoping I'll be able to leverage existing knowledge to come up to speed quickly. I'm registered for a VCP6 course starting in mid-June.

I know the cloud will make us all jobless within the next week (I kid), and I have been looking at Azure since I'm primarily a Microsoft guy who can barely spell Linucks, but at the moment I'm focusing mainly on my strengths. I have knack for getting up to speed quickly and understanding/solving problems, so if I can get into the right position, I know things will be fine and I can learn some of the skills that the "big city" folks use regularly. I may have to take a reduction in role/salary to make it happen.

gespenstern

If COL is lower where are you moving to and/or you have tons of savings AND you are skilled enough to find the job quickly and/or the market is good there then move. If not then don't.

anhtran35

I would advise against the move until you can secure an opt.

packetphilter

I wouldn't pretend to live in some other area. Too easy to get caught up in a web of lies and excuses as to why you can't swing by their office for another interview or to fill out a form or whatever.

Do you have six months to a year of living expenses saved up? If so, and if you're single, then go ahead and chance the move. Worst that can happen is you end up homeless and sharing a low quality beer in a paper bag with some other guy who tried the same thing.

GSXR750K2

I really don't want to relocate and roll the dice with finding a job, which is probably why I asked here...like people who want to harm themselves informing everyone as a plea for help.

The COL is about the same in most of the places I'm looking, and only a tad higher in couple (2-4%). Six months wouldn't be a problem. The only non-household expense I have now is on my 2013 Tahoe (bought used in 2014), which I've considered just paying off to have no payment at all, but that would dent the relocation fund a bit. I've sold my fun car and motorcycles to help lighten the load of moving stuff when the time comes.

I've emailed several recruiters this morning to get a feel for markets and am calling connections to see if they know of anything. I'd rather look for direct hires since recruiters can barely use a mouse, but at the moment I'm casting a wide net. Ideally I'd like to find something with a bit of stress involved since I tend to thrive in fast paced environments...when the chips are down and **** is nearing the fan, I feel I'm at my best.

GSXR750K2

packetphilter wrote: »

I wouldn't pretend to live in some other area. Too easy to get caught up in a web of lies and excuses as to why you can't swing by their office for another interview or to fill out a form or whatever.

Do you have six months to a year of living expenses saved up? If so, and if you're single, then go ahead and chance the move. Worst that can happen is you end up homeless and sharing a low quality beer in a paper bag with some other guy who tried the same thing.

This is my reasoning exactly...if they ask for a second interview or something else in-person a day or two after an interview, it may seem a little suspicious when I start trying to offer a different schedule a week or so out.

My girlfriend of 2.5 years and I are both wanting to get out of here soon, so not single, but not moving a family. I don't drink (can't stand the smell) so I'll let Homeless Harry have the whole bottle.

soletek

I doubt you will need 6 months of rent but 2-3 should be fine. If you have a friend address it could be useful. But know the area because I found HR in a way test you on this. If not just use your orginal address and be honest. Tell them you are looking to relocate within the next couple of months. But in honesty I would not move down without a job unless I have time to look. Put your resume out and see how many bites you get. If you get a lot of hits then there is interest and most likely employment can be gain within a couple of months. I move once without a job but I got a lot of hits before I move down. I found work within 2 months.

Verities

@OP - I literally just went through relocating from California to Arizona (due to cheaper cost of housing). However, I wasn't going to risk relocating without having a job offer since I'm the breadwinner for my family. Normally, I would say its a huge risk to do what you're thinking, but if you're young and single you are able to take more risks. As you get older and have more responsibilities, it becomes harder to rebound from risky decisions.

As an out of state candidate, it took me about 2 months of actively applying to ~30+ jobs (maybe more), and about 10 interviews before I actually receive 2 offers then accepted one of them for a position in Arizona. It was extremely draining getting denied because I wasn't a local candidate, regardless of my skill set, certifications, and my intention of relocating without asking for any assistance. In the end it was worth it because I have landed my dream job and they even gave me relocation assistance!

shimasensei

I am also contemplating the same thing...my plan is to get a job offer before relocating. Just curious, do you have a family (wife/kids)? If so, how do you plan on transitioning them? I'm thinking that I will go ahead first to prepare everything then they will follow, especially since I'm OCONUS right now, and the west coast is my preferred location.

GSXR750K2

@soletek:

I agree on two-three months being likely. I relocated about 10 years ago when between jobs (not to the area I'm in now), and I landed a job two months after moving, so I'm not worried about finding a job, but I know going to a bigger area I'll be at somewhat of a disadvantage when it comes to experience with certain technologies compared to the locals, so a longer wait time is a possibility.

@Verities:

I'm 34 and have made a few risky decisions in the past, and things have always worked out, but I'm not relying on luck continuing to show up at my door. I hear you on the energy drain. I'm quite Vulcan in my views on worry and anticipation, but I'll admit there are some restless nights when I'm waiting to hear back on whether or not they even want to talk to me. It does seem a little screwy when I tell a recruiter or company manager that getting my stuff moved is all on my dime...if it doesn't cost them anything either way, why should they care?

@shim

Not really any "family", just my girlfriend that will follow a little later. We both work for the same company now, so the plan is I go down first (giggity), then she follows in a couple months after she's had time to hunt in the area we end up in. I currently make three times what she does, so we split rent and I cover everything else. Her car is paid for, so we really don't have a lot of overhead that we have to worry about.


This afternoon I called about a position that is inline with what I do now (and pays a few grand more), but they offered it to someone on Monday and they accepted this morning. They believe they'll need to fill a few more roles in the next month as it's a year-long project for a company and the one guy won't be able to do it on his own, so they have my info.

I think chatting about this is convincing me it's best to wait, I guess I'm just tired of the waiting game. I feel like an F1 car sitting at the starting line revving its engine, but it's taking forever for the race to start. LOL

shimasensei

GSXR750K2 wrote: »

@soletek:

I agree on two-three months being likely. I relocated about 10 years ago when between jobs (not to the area I'm in now), and I landed a job two months after moving, so I'm not worried about finding a job, but I know going to a bigger area I'll be at somewhat of a disadvantage when it comes to experience with certain technologies compared to the locals, so a longer wait time is a possibility.

@Verities:

I'm 34 and have made a few risky decisions in the past, and things have always worked out, but I'm not relying on luck continuing to show up at my door. I hear you on the energy drain. I'm quite Vulcan in my views on worry and anticipation, but I'll admit there are some restless nights when I'm waiting to hear back on whether or not they even want to talk to me. It does seem a little screwy when I tell a recruiter or company manager that getting my stuff moved is all on my dime...if it doesn't cost them anything either way, why should they care?

@shim

Not really any "family", just my girlfriend that will follow a little later. We both work for the same company now, so the plan is I go down first (giggity), then she follows in a couple months after she's had time to hunt in the area we end up in. I currently make three times what she does, so we split rent and I cover everything else. Her car is paid for, so we really don't have a lot of overhead that we have to worry about.


This afternoon I called about a position that is inline with what I do now (and pays a few grand more), but they offered it to someone on Monday and they accepted this morning. They believe they'll need to fill a few more roles in the next month as it's a year-long project for a company and the one guy won't be able to do it on his own, so they have my info.

I think chatting about this is convincing me it's best to wait, I guess I'm just tired of the waiting game. I feel like an F1 car sitting at the starting line revving its engine, but it's taking forever for the race to start. LOL

Good luck with the opportunity! It's definitely easier to do the move as you and your girlfriend, as you mentioned, have a low overhead. If the job looks great, this could be it. BTW is your current city in Texas also? Or are you moving from out of state?

MontagueVandervort

GSXR750K2 wrote:

I think chatting about this is convincing me it's best to wait, I guess I'm just tired of the waiting game. I feel like an F1 car sitting at the starting line revving its engine, but it's taking forever for the race to start. LOL

Better to rev at the starting line for a while and end up racing on a paved road, than to anxiously drive off a cliff.

GSXR750K2

shimasensei wrote: »

Good luck with the opportunity! It's definitely easier to do the move as you and your girlfriend, as you mentioned, have a low overhead. If the job looks great, this could be it. BTW is your current city in Texas also? Or are you moving from out of state?

Out of state...I'm in Fort Smith, AR at the moment (Arkansas, not Arizona. You'd be surprised how many get those mixed up ). I'm about four hours northeast of the DFW area. Tulsa, OK is another option, but less desirable, it's about 2 hours or so west of where I am now.

If you guys get bored and want to see how well many of you have it, search for "Most Miserable Cities in the US" and you'll find Fort Smith on many of them over the past few years. It's so sad it's almost hilarious.

anhtran35

MCSE 2012? Dude...u could prob easily ask for 90k or more in the DC/VA area.

GSXR750K2

anhtran35 wrote: »

MCSE 2012? Dude...u could prob easily ask for 90k or more in the DC/VA area.

That's what I make now as a base, so I'm hoping to get close to that if possible. DC/VA is farther out than we're considering at the moment, but as desperation sets in more, we may expand the radius of the search. COL is quite low here, so I know a pay increase may not necessarily mean an effective increase if we have to shell out more for housing, utilities, etc. somewhere else. Texas has no state income tax, so I could tolerate a small decrease in gross pay but bring home the same, if not a tad more...of course they make up for that in property taxes.

I'm waiting to hear if I'm in the running for a position at an oil/gas company in Tulsa (I'm in O&G now), it's at $89,000-ish. The position I mentioned before that was filled in Dallas, though they believe more will come available in the near future, advertised at $95-98,000. At the moment, getting cut back to $80,000 or even $75,000 would be worth it for the right position. Raises are coming around soon, and I really don't want to hit six figures at a job I can't stand in an area that's swirling the drain. First world problems...

TechGromit

JockVSJock wrote: »

I would recommend getting a PO Box say at a UPS or FedEx store, that way it appears on your resume that you are local to area/region. Typically there is a monthly charge for the PO Box

I concur. If you currently employed now in your local area, I'd apply for elsewhere positions and claim your already local, then if you get the job, you can give less notice at your current position and move out a week before your new job starts to get settled. The only way I personally would move without a job already lined up, is if I had a boatload of money in the bank and get a roommate sharing situation to minimize costs till I landed something solid. You also have to remember you support net is much smaller when you move someplace when you don't know anyone, can't move in with your parents (or relatives) if money gets tight and no friends in the area to help you out.

JockVSJock wrote: »

You could also use Google Voice to get a local area code too.

Having a phone number with a different area code don't mean you live far away anymore. I wouldn't be that concerned with this, with cell phones people like to keep there phone number, regardless where they live. It no longer means you live in a certain area just because you have a foreign area code number.

packetphilter wrote: »

I wouldn't pretend to live in some other area. Too easy to get caught up in a web of lies and excuses as to why you can't swing by their office for another interview or to fill out a form or whatever.

This wouldn't worry me too much, after all you work a full time job already, it's not like you can drop everything and run over to there offices at there beacon call. The only issue I can see is you current company isn't local, I guess you can tell them that's where the HQ is and you work at a branch office. Also I would tell them "local", tell them you live 45 minutes away from there offices, this way it's not like you are so local you can stop over on your lunch hour to do paperwork.

shimasensei

GSXR750K2 wrote: »

Out of state...I'm in Fort Smith, AR at the moment (Arkansas, not Arizona. You'd be surprised how many get those mixed up ). I'm about four hours northeast of the DFW area. Tulsa, OK is another option, but less desirable, it's about 2 hours or so west of where I am now.

If you guys get bored and want to see how well many of you have it, search for "Most Miserable Cities in the US" and you'll find Fort Smith on many of them over the past few years. It's so sad it's almost hilarious.

Cool! Best of luck with your endeavors.

kickball

I actually just did this. I lived and worked in Cleveland, OH right out of college and I wanted to move across country. I had a friend in Arizona so I used his address on my resume. I still put all of my current work experience including the location being in Cleveland. That at least got me the phone call and initial phone interview. The location would always come up right away. I would admit that yes I am currently in Cleveland and tell them that the Arizona was a family address. Telling them it was a family address was the only white lie that I told. In my opinion the reason they don't want to hire out of state candidates with little experience is they don't want you to move and not like the area and move back home. Family I think is a legit enough reason to want to move to a new state or in my case across country. I never asked for any relocation assistance, I wanted to move so it wasn't a big deal to me.

Having the address say Arizona was just to get me the initial phone calls. After I started talking to them I feel like they were more inclined to consider me even though I was out state after talking to me. This is the end of my second week now and all is good. Clear blue sunny skies.

Just my 2 cents

GSXR750K2

kickball wrote: »

I actually just did this. I lived and worked in Cleveland, OH right out of college and I wanted to move across country. I had a friend in Arizona so I used his address on my resume. I still put all of my current work experience including the location being in Cleveland. That at least got me the phone call and initial phone interview. The location would always come up right away. I would admit that yes I am currently in Cleveland and tell them that the Arizona was a family address. Telling them it was a family address was the only white lie that I told. In my opinion the reason they don't want to hire out of state candidates with little experience is they don't want you to move and not like the area and move back home. Family I think is a legit enough reason to want to move to a new state or in my case across country. I never asked for any relocation assistance, I wanted to move so it wasn't a big deal to me.

Having the address say Arizona was just to get me the initial phone calls. After I started talking to them I feel like they were more inclined to consider me even though I was out state after talking to me. This is the end of my second week now and all is good. Clear blue sunny skies.

Just my 2 cents

Glad things worked out you're enjoying your new area.

I agree there are probably some concern from the employer of a candidate's culture shock when relocating to an area. I had a Skype deal with a surprisingly knowledgeable recruiter on Friday and "the reasons" question came up. I told her I'm familiar with the area and that I visit several times a year for various social activities (which is true), so I know what I'd be getting myself into.

I too never ask for (or even want) relocation assistance, and I usually work that into the conversation when discussing relocation.

I've replaced my address on my résumé with "Available to Relocate Upon Fulfillment of Notice to Current Employer". I may be rolling some dice with it, but I figure it conveys I'm not in the area now but am wanting to relocate, and it lets them know I can be there in as little as two weeks, which would be the case if they hired locally and a candidate to submitted their notice to an employer. I came up with that after coming across this write up on preparay.com...

IF YOU ARE RELOCATING, SHOULD YOU PUT YOUR REAL ADDRESS ON YOUR RESUME?

Now for the more complicated question about addresses on resumes when you’re moving. As discussed, there can be a bias in favor of local candidates and against out of state ones.

This makes people wonder if they should lie about their location, put a friend’s address on the resume, etc.

I definitely do not recommend this approach. If you land an interview, the best case scenario, you’re going to either have to explain that you lied on your resume about your address (a big deal-breaker) or somehow keep up the charade that you actually live in the area, which can be extremely costly and inconvenient.

...

By putting your current address, you’re letting them know that you probably won’t be able to swing in for an in-person interview tomorrow at noon, but the 2nd line is the key. By saying you’re already planning on relocating in the near future, you’re letting them know that this is part of your plan.

...

Companies aren’t going to wait 6 months or more for you to move. Most are looking to hire ASAP.

mbarrett

Everybody does what they need to do in their life....if you relocate without a job lined up, be prepared to be unemployed for a few months (at least), and then to be possible underemployed for a while. Unless you're a hot commodity in a technical niche, your challenge will probably be lacking the personal network in the local area that most people rely on to advance themselves. Until you develop a local track record/personal connections, you will be playing catch-up.

GSXR750K2

mbarrett wrote: »

Everybody does what they need to do in their life....if you relocate without a job lined up, be prepared to be unemployed for a few months (at least), and then to be possible underemployed for a while. Unless you're a hot commodity in a technical niche, your challenge will probably be lacking the personal network in the local area that most people rely on to advance themselves. Until you develop a local track record/personal connections, you will be playing catch-up.

True story all the way around. I only have a couple of contacts in each of the areas I'm looking at. Only one may have some influence, a retired aerospace exec, but he's been enjoying retirement for a while now and hasn't kept up with who's who, so he doesn't have anyone's ear at the moment.

I've decided to hold off on relocating without a position first...the forum has provided a lot of good input and perspectives, which I knew it would.

Thanks, everyone.