What separates people who stagnate from people who go high in their careers?

packetphilter

Is it mostly lethargy and lack of interest in IT, or is it more due to prioritizing family and other endeavors? I know of some people who have been computer repair techs for 20 years, and I'm not sure what they make, but I'd be surprised if it was more than 40k. Why didn't they go into networking? Security? Administration? Why not sit down and study up the ladder: CCNA to CCNP to CCIE? Or CEH to OSCP to OSCE?

It seems very few people really try for the top. They find a comfy niche and decide, "This is as far as I'm gonna go." Something in their brain clicked and they decided to accept their station in life and never go beyond. I'm not saying this is bad, but I'm just trying to understand the mindset.

I feel like I have to keep going, and no goal achieved ever seems to be enough. There's always another. Perhaps one day that will change, but I'm not sure what might change it.

PC509

I've known a couple people like that. One just loved what he did, he was good at it, and didn't want to make any big lifestyle changes. He was what he was. He didn't want more. Which is fine. I love working on PC's and do it at home whenever I can.

Another guy wanted to, but he had zero motivation. When asked if he would be willing to take training, he said "if the job requires it". When asked if he would want more responsibilities to possibly move up in the future, again - "if the job requires it". He was a long time help desk guy.

I learn something new all the time. When I earned my MS:Information Security, I was already in the CISSP books and videos. That's my next goal. After that, I'm going for the OCSP. There is always something new to learn, always some new technology to play with.

I listen to podcasts (ISC Stormcast is my daily commute listen before music), read blogs, watch YouTube videos, subscribe to various email lists for security.

I'm always learning, always volunteering at work to do more things, always taking advantage of any training that is offered. I stay in the consumer realm with my website that deals with Microsoft Windows (and other MS products). That's more of a personal thing that I really enjoy. It's just FUN to me. I love learning new things. I love hearing about new technology. And I apply things to my job.

There is always a new goal to go for. I find this career fun and exciting. Maybe some people feel that their lower level job is the same way. Some want to get into administration, some want to get into security. For them, that'd become work and just a job. They feel like the tech or help desk role is exciting and fun the same way we feel about other things. Others just have the lack of motivation or passion and don't care what happens.

Now that I typed that, I'm kinda jazzed. It's easier to study when you're excited about the material.

jelevated

I can think of a few reasons:

-Not a huge number of specialist roles available compared to desktop support. The less people competing for those roles, more room for us .
-Cost of certifications and keeping up with them.
-Lack of interest in specialist topics.
-Don't want to take the job home with them (hard to do when you're on call).
-Don't do well in high visibility/pressure environments (i.e. network engineering ,security engineering).
-Local job markets.

Are those who are in engineering/senior roles really winning though? sometimes I can't tell. A desktop support person making $50k but gets to go home and relax, or the engineer making $100k but is constantly on call, working overtime, extremely tough work statement. Sometimes I just don't know.

Priston

I think people get to a certain point they become comfortable doing what they do and comfortable with what they make. If you like what you do and like what you make why risk moving outside your comfort zone?

I'm kind of in that situation right now. Upward mobility is starting to become unclear, but I'm happy with the pay and happy doing what I do. If I was in my 50s I'd stay where I am for the rest of my career. Since I'm in my 20s I have to ask myself, how much am I willing to sacrifice and how far am I willing to go to get to the next level?

shimasensei

Complacency and/or they've found their comfort zone. This is not necessarily a bad thing, people have different reasons and life situations.

The ones who go higher are never satisfied with their skill, knowledge, and career level and use that (among other things) as a motivation to work and study harder. Things like passion for the technology, learning and continual self improvement are huge factors also.

MontagueVandervort

So I've learned... different people have different priorities. Becoming successful requires a lot of sacrifices that most people just aren't willing to make.

The rest of us see being kept away from the climb as the sacrifice instead.

NetworkingStudent

i would say because it's hard to move on and up.

You need to switch jobs several times.

One of my previous managers told me he stayed at the same company for 3 contracts.

He did the field work, then he worked for one of our customers, and then they brought him in to manage the project's help desk.

I don't think he ever got hired on, but he did say he Keeps coming back because he doesn't like to do interviews.

---

Someone I know from college:
I met one guy in college that was going school for personal training.

We talked and he said he did IT before for 20 years. He said he did it all.

I found out all meant 20 years of help desk.

Honestly he looked so defeated when he said it was 20 years of help desk.

I couldn't do 20 years of help desk. I need to move up.


Computer Repair
I like repairing computers, but man if you don't work at or own an MSP, then good luck with trying to make money off fixing PCs!

Computer repair is still a service people need, but it isn't as profitable as it once was.

CCNTrainee

I have only met a few stagnate people in my side of the field, these types of people already had a first retired, collecting multiple checks and picked up IT as something to do or wanted some nice benefits that my company offers. Some people actually enjoy doing what they do even if it doesn't pay much, just like how some people decide to 30 years for the military as enlisted because they like mentoring younger troops even though they could make much more and have a better position on the outside with their skillsets.

Never have met a 20+ year repair tech, unless you want to lump "field system services" into the same bracket. Given that they paid a nicely and get to travel all over the country and go overseas for jobsites on the company's dime seems like a nice deal to me.

Everyone has different levels of success to them. Given the environment I was raised in, I am a functioning saint compared to what I could of been if I decided to embrace my surroundings growing up. When I was a student, everyone's idea of successful was running your own start-up company or consulting firm and making the Fortune 500 list.

Mike7

Besides help desk, "field system services" or front line managers sometimes can have more 10 years experience. Helpdesk and system services just like to be on the move while first level managers sometimes prefer not to move to upper management. The tech support manager in a previous job had more than 20 years experience.

TechGromit

packetphilter wrote: »

Is it mostly lethargy and lack of interest in IT, or is it more due to prioritizing family and other endeavors? I know of some people who have been computer repair techs for 20 years, and I'm not sure what they make, but I'd be surprised if it was more than 40k. Why didn't they go into networking? Security? Administration? Why not sit down and study up the ladder: CCNA to CCNP to CCIE? Or CEH to OSCP to OSCE?

They get comfortable, I hate to admit it, but I was just like this. I had a nice comfortable job paying around 60K a year with benefits, chances are if I didn't get laid off, I'd still be there, earning about the same. If I was a little more motivated earlier in my career, I could have been earning 60K a year 10 years earlier and probably be earning over 100k today. I think it's pretty much this way in every field, you have entry level people and those not very tech savvy at the bottom, the bulk the work force is in the middle, they are experienced and competent, they learned how to do there jobs, but only pick up new skills just fast enough to stay put, i.e. comfortable, and the top 10 or 15% are those that either are really smart and learn new technologies easily or they work at it, studying on personal time and get certifications.

mzx380

This is part of a post that I made at the end of last year which relates to what the OP was talking about. It's a very real reason why a lot of people do not upskill outside of help desk. Please learn from my experience and never fall into a trap like this

Good luck

Things I Learned in 2016

I've been in IT for over 12 years or rather IT has been in me, but I've never been in it. Personal computer ownership exploded while I was in High School and when it came time for me to go to college, I thought that my love of technology would translate into a steady paycheck for the rest of my working life. When I graduated from college, the job market for IT was in bad shape, and I did not receive my first tech job for close to a year. When I finally did get a job, it was low paying and entry level but was super convenient, so I developed a sense of apathy. A few years later, I got married, and that spurred me to get another job which was able to teach me more. After a while, the work situation there became convenient, and apathy struck yet again.

For many years, I used to have some BS idea that other people had the luck of progressing in their career while I kept trudging along with no upward movement all while not scheduling the time to upskill outside of my job function. Oddly enough, I thought I better than my job and boldly thought that I'd quit but never actually did. It turns out I wouldn't even get the chance because my company got rid of me exactly one year ago today.

On day 1 I was stunned and despondent. On day 2 I began applying elsewhere thinking I will be employed again in a matter of weeks. After two months and barely a response to my applications, I finally got the message that I needed to start taking my career seriously because if I didn't, no one else would. I laid out a track for myself to improve and after toiling day and night for four more months finally landed another job.

TheFORCE

It isnt just one thing, it is a combination of things. Life priorities certainly play a huge role. I see this with myself now. There was a time that I was trying to prove myself to my companies and move up and make more, this usually happens around 20-35. After that your life changes, people get into serious relationships, they get married, they have kids they need to take care etc. When this happens time is an issue and time is something that is not available anymore. Another thing is exposure at work, if you are not working with networking equipment, it becomes tough to start learning it, if you are not working with system administration, same thing, if not working with Linux, same thing applies. To start from scratch and get to a point where you are competitive with someone already doing those jobs takes a lot of time. People are not willing to give up time when they already make 100-150k, they rather spend the time with their family. That is the mindset, time can not be bought, it can only be spent... so decide on what you want to spend it.

Danielm7

I had a discussion like this with a coworker the other day. Some people don't care. If they figure they make enough to just keep showing up and going through the motions why bother with all the extra stuff. Going home and playing XBox was deemed more important than advancing their career. These same people are the ones that freak out on the chance of a layout because suddenly "there are no jobs out there!" when the market is pretty good where we live.

I mentioned another past coworker who started at helpdesk after college. He was there 6 months then went to advanced HD, then a sysadmin. Less than a year after the last promotion he took a huge promotion at Amazon. When I brought him up I got, "yeah but that guy went home and geeked out learning stuff on his own!" Yep, and look at him now...

umarbhatti

Sometimes i think its also luck, being in the right place at the right time, and for some ppl they are naturally talented at what they do.
One guy i went to college with, would always read Networking books, watch CCIE videos etc while everyone was simply studying for their CCNA. He a job at a ISP and got as far as CCNP.

Another guy i know started at helpdesk, use to ask me questions on how to do certain things, and now hes a CCIE DC.

UncleB

I'm going to play devils avocado here (I could be the devils advocate but this is healthier)...

Why do you need to be always working to be better / higher up than you are now? When are you going to be happy with the level you reach or are you only going to be happy when you are the Grand Overlord of the world?

If you don't know where that limit is then it implies you do not know yourself and it means you are probably never going to be really happy in your career as you always think that the view over the next ridge is going to be better and somehow worth all the sacrifice to get there.

Then you realise you are old, you have few years left and you have never taken the time to be truly happy with who and what you are because you were always unsatisfied.

My take on it is to find what aspects of the job make you happy and work to find your place doing this in a way that you find rewarding and challenging enough to keep it fresh. You can dip your toes in other stuff as and when you are ready.

I have worked in IT support for 28 years, about half as desktop and team lead and half as manager and I found out long ago that making others happy is what makes me happy (although with some of my posts here you may question this LOL). Whatever the psychology around it I find it great to take a support team and shape them into a well oiled machine that keeps the business working effectively and responsive to the opportunities that make them money.

In recent years I have made a decent living being a troubleshooter for broken support teams, getting them back on track, motivating the staff, amputating the dead wood and getting IT working in alignment with the business again. I love it and can see a real benefit to me doing the job well.

I recommend that rather than concentrating on what specific tech is the next target for your studies, you focus on what it is about these which are meaningful. Are you the burly defender between the business and the evil black hats out there, do you see the code like the matrix and feel at one with the zeros (pun intended) or do you just like the big pay cheque that allows you to be a semi-professional ballroom dancer in your own time.

The essence of this is "know thyself".

jeremywatts2005

You would be highly motivated to move up and make more and do more if you were in my situation. My wife is a stay at home mom, so that means we are single income. I have a daughter who is autistic which means we have to have premier benefits for her to get the therapy she needs. So I charge hard and go after every promotion, dime and benefit I can get. We also have another daughter who is 8. So a family of 4 on one salary yep that equals motivation. I cannot sit and just say I like what I am doing and stay there. If I am asked to take on more work or there is a chance the extra work could lead to a promotion I am all over it.

Danielh22185

I couldn't agree with UncleB more. You have to know yourself and also realize your drive and ambitions are not always a shared / transparent values with every individual. I have come across many different people in my short time in IT so far (~7years). Many of them have been older guys that have been doing the same type of job 20+ years and have never really exceeded that particular role. Many of those I can call my past mentors too. I learned from them and moved on. I also tend to believe many of those guys enjoyed being that mentor for younger guys like me. They found themselves and what they enjoy doing and their lives are what they are because of that. Does this mean they are not successful just because they are not on the slim top percentage of the food chain? Absolutely NOT. Success should not ever be measured just on that factor alone.

Can you also run into lazy people that don't go above and beyond? For sure YES! I have also ran into these people. However these kinds of people will not last. Could they be sneaking through the cracks in the current role? Sure. I've seen that too. But people who are lazy will never be successful and their worlds will crumble around them because they live day-to-day lost within themselves. It's not until they find what makes them happy they will then begin to crack their habit.

Then, on the other side of the spectrum you have people like you / I. I wouldn't say we are lost just because we are always striving to get to the next level, this indeed is our personality / who we are. Now, that does come with certain sacrifices which will always cause me to be looking for more and utilizing that time to get there, sure but that is what keeps me interested and going. Now if you are dreading that process and hating the fact that you think you need to always be on top of the latest tech trends etc, then you are not looking in the right places and you are indeed lost.


You have to find what enriches your mind / soul and align your life to that.

Danielh22185

jeremywatts2005 wrote: »

You would be highly motivated to move up and make more and do more if you were in my situation. My wife is a stay at home mom, so that means we are single income. I have a daughter who is autistic which means we have to have premier benefits for her to get the therapy she needs. So I charge hard and go after every promotion, dime and benefit I can get. We also have another daughter who is 8. So a family of 4 on one salary yep that equals motivation. I cannot sit and just say I like what I am doing and stay there. If I am asked to take on more work or there is a chance the extra work could lead to a promotion I am all over it.

I can relate pretty heavily to this. My wife only works part time and I bring in about 80-85% of the family income. So I also have this as a driver at the back of my mind at all times.

stryder144

There are many factors that lead to complacency. In fact, each factor (or set of factors) is as unique to the individual as their reason(s) for entering IT in the first place. Here are some of my observations:

1. Comfort...it is too uncomfortable for them to move on to something else. Maybe they have reached a level of knowledge and understanding with the position/technology where they find that people look at them as the subject matter expert. Instead of growing into another position, where they feel they will have to give up their SME status and "start at the bottom again", they stay where they are at. Oftentimes, they make just enough money to keep them comfortable, too.

2. Desire...they have no desire to learn, grow, and develop. Many times, that lack of desire is tied into comfort.

3. The place of employment doesn't have opportunities to get hands on experience with different technologies and any interest in something outside of the corporate wheelhouse is discouraged. In some cases, actively but most of the time the boss points you in a direction that makes it hard to grow out of.

4. Fear! Either of success or failure.

5. Your life took a direction where it is best for you to stay put and focus on the demands of the current place of employment.

I've encountered people with 20+ years of experience in IT who did not have a degree nor did they have certifications. When the inevitable lay-off occurs, they scramble to become "relevant again" through certifications (primarily). That is one reason why I have talked to all of my kids and told them to pay attention to self-development so that when circumstances change they will have skill sets that are current and allow them to pivot to market demands.

TheFORCE

I know someone that was working in IT for 20 years, doing desktop support getting paid 60k. The same person was doing a side job as a hobby and was very passionate about it. The side job required that you are out in the field, make your own hours and being outdoors.
The guy turned this side job into a business and after all expenses he gets home 80-90k working for himself and employing all his family in the business. He eats lunch at home and is happier with what he does.

I know some other guy that has 3 houses through inherotance and when he was let go from his old company of 15 years he took 2 months winter vacation and then found another job after that. Every summer he goes 1 month vacation abroad enjoying life. Money is not an issue and he wants to spend time with his family.

I know another person who lives in rent stabilize housing and pays $400 rent while making 80k+. Thats like making 150k and paying 2k rent.

I know many other people who work as bank tellers and because of splits and mergers, they get 20k-20k dividend payments per quarter. Thats 80-120k a year for doing nothing plus their bank teller job without bustinf their ass off.

The point is, people like what they like and they rather enjoy life at some point instead of always trying to get over the next obstacle.

sillymcnasty

Insecurity. I'm not anywhere where I want to be. But I want to be as least poor as possible.

NetworkingStudent

I remember when I left printing to work at my first IT job.

Almost everyone talked to me before I left, and you know what a lot of them said?

I wish I could leave too..

These guys were making $30.00-$40.00 an hour or more.

Most of the people just worked there because it was a job that paid really well.

People are custom to a certain income and way of life, so it's hard to just root up and specialize and/or change jobs.



However, you should always be learning something in IT. Just think in 3 years windows 7 will no longer be supported.

renacido

Those that do particularly well tend to have a combination of the following traits:

- GENUINE passion and enthusiasm for their job/specialty
- They specialize in a hard-to-find skill set that is in high demand
- Willingness to make temporary sacrifices for long-term benefit (spend time after work to acquire new skills, take courses, lab at home, tinker, network with peers, spend personal funds for education/certs)
- Put effort into networking, teaching others things (you refine your own skills by teaching others AND earn credibility), improving processes, solving problems, etc
- They get along well with people. Yes, humans. Doesn't matter how big brained you are - if you're a jerk, that will always be a weight on your career. One of my former employees is a true savant as a technician, and his skill set is extremely valuable, but he is antisocial and therefore has hit his career ceiling no matter how in demand his skills are.
- They are extremely productive (they truly enjoy the work AND are self-disciplined and self-managing)
- They are very good communicators (they articulate their ideas well, and provide solid documentation)

That is not an exhaustive list but no doubt anyone who really excels in IT checks most if not all of those boxes.

kiki162

I think a lot of it has to do with the person themselves. Yeah money, family, and other factors do contribute to it. I started out being very curious about computers and IT in general, that turned into a passion to keep doing more. Some people probably don't really think about it once they get into a certain position and become stuck. Others people are just stuck because they have multiple kids to support, retirement to think about, and feel its too much of a risk because they've been doing the same crap for so long. Once SHTF, if it ever does, then the wheels really start turning.

For me, I saw more people then I could count not wanting to further their "career", or lack their of. I've seen a lot of talented people that weren't willing to put in the work to get a certification, or learn something new. If you happen to end up working with group of people that hate their job and don't love what they do, then you start to fall in line with the rest of them. Working environments can really suck the life out of some people, and before they realize, they've been their 20 years.

Personally, I wanted to get into something where I could do more, and feel like I accomplished something at the end of the day. Certainly money is always driving factor, but it's not a necessity. Once life really hits you upside the head and forces you to make a change, only then will things start to happen.

ande0255

On a scale of 1-10 of how far you want to go in your career, you should have a scale of 1-10 of how hard you work to better yourself personally and professionally.

That goes for both inside and outside the work place.

SteveLavoie

Different people mean different goal/priorities... But everyone need money to take hom. So some are happy to make 40K-50K, if it keep them happy and they enjoy more their family or their hobby. And that's fine, when I was younger, my boss would tell me, "Steve remember that if I would have 10 clones of you, I would not have enough challenge to keep the 10 of you happy". So less motivated people are useful to keep me from desktop support, from the old lady asking why she lose her entire collection of cat photo when her hard drive was 12 years olds.. and so on.

I am not this kind... rather I am IT architect, IT is my life. I would do the same job for just enough money to keep me and my family happy but I am intelligent enough to ask for my fair share of my work. If it means 80K or 100K so be it.. My family and me will just enjoy it more.

NavyMooseCCNA

In my situation my company actively discourages me from getting additional certifications. The tuition reimbursement, before it was removed as a benefit, did not cover certifications and only certain academic programs. I am basically here to get current IT on my resume and use my time to get my Security+ before getting a better job.

I believe I have stagnated in my career before attempting to "re-invent" myself starting at the end of 2015. I have Asperger's, which is like an anchor around my neck in terms of career growth. I excel in academics and frequently fall flat on my face at work. I am hoping that my focus on cyber-security; whether it will be in information assurance, incident handling, or policy; will allow me to use my strengths and be able to grow. Due to my disability, I want to avoid leadership or managerial roles (despite having an MBA).

packetphilter

NavyMooseCCNA wrote: »

I have Asperger's, which is like an anchor around my neck in terms of career growth. I excel in academics and frequently fall flat on my face at work. I am hoping that my focus on cyber-security; whether it will be in information assurance, incident handling, or policy; will allow me to use my strengths and be able to grow. Due to my disability, I want to avoid leadership or managerial roles (despite having an MBA).

Have you watched any of Eli the Computer Guy's videos? He has aspergers as well, and he's discussed it a few times in his videos and on how it's influences his trek through IT.

NavyMooseCCNA

packetphilter wrote: »

Have you watched any of Eli the Computer Guy's videos? He has aspergers as well, and he's discussed it a few times in his videos and on how it's influences his trek through IT.

I've watched a few videos, I'll have to look to see which ones he's discussed it.

yoba222

There's a common US convenience store chain named 7-Eleven. I was in one last month and overheard this little nugget:

"7-Eleven is in my heart and in my blood."

The cashier who said this to a customer seemed to be in a cheerful mood and the conversation had to do with him loving his job. A homeless guy held the door open for me as I walked out. Still scratching my head on how to consider that experience.

ande0255

Being helpful to another person in need, especially in their time of crisis, is something that most people are born with.

Some aren't, I call those sales people.

In IT you need to want to not just sit and configure **** non stop, but to help a customer or your company achieve a goal, and when you get that pat on the back that you did a good job it feels great.

If the guy at the gas station never had a customer facing job before, being able to interact with and improve other peoples days probably makes his work life great, as it does for me when I help a customer with whatever crisis they are facing.

If you are not a people person and enjoy just helping a fellow human being, you are an ******* in my book, but then again some days I hate all people and can be an ******* so I guess that also makes me a hypocrite at times