CCNP SWITCH question (for those who have taken it)

doctore

So I got my CCNA R&S and I was browsing the CCNP and in the Switching portion of the exam topics - there is nothing really new!?!

All the topics listed at the Cisco website as part of the CCNP SWITCH are already covered in CCNA: VLANs, Trunks, EtherChannel, STP, etc - it was all done in the CCNA coursework...

Can anyone enlighten me what's so special about the CCNP SWITCH? Is the difference that in CCNP you'd have to actually configure, rather than answer a multiple choice? :

shortstop20

doctore wrote: »

So I got my CCNA R&S and I was browsing the CCNP and in the Switching portion of the exam topics - there is nothing really new!?!

All the topics listed at the Cisco website as part of the CCNP SWITCH are already covered in CCNA: VLANs, Trunks, EtherChannel, STP, etc - it was all done in the CCNA coursework...

Can anyone enlighten me what's so special about the CCNP SWITCH? Is the difference that in CCNP you'd have to actually configure, rather than answer a multiple choice? :

Alot of the Switch exam is just more in depth than CCNA. Same with the ROUTE exam, it's just more in depth for the most part with a few new parts like redistribution.

Node Man

Lots of little odd and ends material. Its those never used, easy to forget subjects that make the Switch test hard. It requires us to truly understand the behavior of the protocols, not just memorize commands.

Danielh22185

I did feel like (while studying especially) it to be more of a rehash of CCNA material mainly because you don't learn the extensive routing / other technologies that are brand new as found on the Route track. So like mentioned it goes deep and tests your true understanding of the concepts. I felt the Switch test had me thinking deep on topics to test my true understand while the Route added several new topics to get past. Study the blue print and make sure you know everything that is outlines VERY WELL.

doctore

Node Man - are you saying that it's still going to be mostly multiple choice?

What really disappointed me in the CCNA (and I took the separate ICND exams) is that not a single question out of 120+ asked you to configure anything!
Yet, the CCNP is talking mostly "configure and verify": https://www.cisco.com/c/dam/en_us/training-events/exams/docs/300-115_switch.pdf
After all, there is just one way to configure VLANs, STP, EtherChannel, etc.

I guess what I'm asking is - are there any configuration questions (simulations) or is it just going to be mostly multiple choice? I'd love to give the SWITCH a shot while it's all fresh, I can truly configure and verify any of the topics, but I'd rather not waste $300 just to find out that it's mostly theory again...

ande0255

I'm not sure why you are specifying only people who have taken switch, as just like ROUTE, its just an expansion upon the CCNA curriculum.

Noone with integrity for the Cisco NDA can say whether there are more or less simulators / simlets in the newer formats of the exam, however my two cents if you want to take them or not, not having done SWITCH or even ROUTE beyond practice is this:

The questions are longer, and contain more filler / distraction material, and a large part of success is being able to identify the question and objective as quickly as possible to start eliminating obvious incorrect answers then work on the remaining possible answers.

You don't just need to know the material and configuration of it, but you need to know how to manage time (extracting pertinent info) for clock management, which is something that is kind of present with the CCNA but much more at the CCNP level.

Output examples, huge topologies that you only need to focus on one part of, however the question / objective is in the format of an entire paragraph - Are you ready to immediately identify misconfigurations in ANY scenario on the blueprint immediately to keep your clock countdown in a place where you don't start to panic?

This is the precursor to the CCIE lab, it will not all be theory and multiple choice, this is an introduction to time management and identifying objectives correctly. To think any other way is donating your money to the test center, and doing yourself a major disservice Doc.

With that, good luck in your CCNP studies

doctore

ande0255 wrote: »

I'm not sure why you are specifying only people who have taken switch, as just like ROUTE, its just an expansion upon the CCNA curriculum.

Because I don't see anything new introduced in SWITCH, unlike ROUTE where I see a few items I am not familiar with; plus ROUTE actually looks like a very serious exam, where SWITCH to me reads like the table of contents of one of the CCNA books

Noone with integrity for the Cisco NDA can say whether there are more or less simulators / simlets in the newer formats of the exam, however my two cents if you want to take them or not, not having done SWITCH or even ROUTE beyond practice is this:

Nah, I'm not asking what questions were on the SWITCH, all I was wondering is if the "configure and verify" Cisco is talking about in the exam description really means that I'd finally get my hands dirty I'd prefer simulations, since there is no ambiguity - you either configured something correctly or you didn't.
My understanding is that when a topic is marked "configure and verify" = simlets where you either configure or verify settings, while "describe xxx" = multiple choice.

I'm not worried about time management for SWITCH or TSHOOT, but ROUTE looks like trouble

ande0255

The blueprint is misleading in its simplicity of presenting topics, lets take what I know, ROUTE blueprint topic 1.4b - MSS (https://learningnetwork.cisco.com/community/certifications/ccnp/route_v2/exam-topics)

MSS - Maximum Segment Size.

It sounds like one topic, an optional field within the TCP SYN packet indicating the routers MTU of packets.

But what if the upstream router is running PPPoE, and cannot transmit those packets with the MTU size of 1500? Or IPv6 is involved somewhere, and runs PMTUD, to determine the MTU of its path on the host before transmission? Does it have a packet header field to even consider MSS?

If I have to adjust my MSS to change the MTU to accommodate an upstream PPPoE router, how do I do that? And how are ALL TCP packets affected by this, and what protocols uses this TCP SYN packet for neighbor discovery / data transmission / etc that I have to consider?

And that is 1 topic from route, that sounds easy enough on the surface, but how many parts of the network rely on that single setting on 1 router, in the middle of 10 routers in a Topology with 2-3 routing domains doing redistribution / stubbing / filtering?

Its one of those things I looked at once and said no problem, and once I looked down the rabbit hole, I found myself at the tea table.

Configure and verify IP SLA? I could write a book on IP SLA. You can't take the blueprint at face value, its like looking at a graveyard and thinking "Oh a graveyard" without really thinking about how many holes are dug in that soil, and the profound nature of that plot of land.

If I am wrong please anyone who has taken the switch or CCIE please correct me, I just don't want you to think your a bunt and a few stolen bases away from home plate. You need to practice your swing, and knock that fucker out of the park, or it the ball will come back to home plate before you cross it.

Not to be harsh, purely constructive perspective to help you not waste money on going and testing now rather than studying.

doctore

ande0255 wrote: »

The blueprint is misleading in its simplicity of presenting topics, lets take what I know, ROUTE blueprint topic 1.4b - MSS (https://learningnetwork.cisco.com/community/certifications/ccnp/route_v2/exam-topics)

MSS - Maximum Segment Size.

It sounds like one topic, an optional field within the TCP SYN packet indicating the routers MTU of packets.

But what if the upstream router is running PPPoE, and cannot transmit those packets with the MTU size of 1500? Or IPv6 is involved somewhere, and runs PMTUD, to determine the MTU of its path on the host before transmission? Does it have a packet header field to even consider MSS?

If I have to adjust my MSS to change the MTU to accommodate an upstream PPPoE router, how do I do that? And how are ALL TCP packets affected by this, and what protocols uses this TCP SYN packet for neighbor discovery / data transmission / etc that I have to consider?

And again, this has already been covered in CCNA

I'm not saying that ROUTE would be easy. But my question was about SWITCH (see title of post) for a reason. There is just so much you can do on a switch and from what I'm seeing in the exam topics - it has already been covered in CCNA.

ande0255

If you schedule and take the exam by this Monday 5/15 and pass, I will send $50 to your paypal once you confirm 100% you actually passed, so keep your print out if you take me up on that offer.

I'd be interested to see if you pass fresh out of CCNA, offer stands for this Monday, go collect your 50 bucks

ImYourOnlyDJ

OP I thought the same exact thing you did, that CCNP Switch material isn't that much different than CCNA and for the most part you are right. The difference here though is now you need a deeper understanding and have additional layers above that. In CCNA you learn what a VLAN is and at the time it may be an entirely new concept to you. By the time you are doing CCNP switch you know what a VLAN is and hopefully have some real world experience, so when you learn about Private VLANs its pretty easy to conceptualize.

I really think the CCNA will be the hardest material to learn (networking wise) for me because everything was so new. Now especially that I have experience everything just seems to build on each other. Talking to other people in the industry they seem to concur.

My best advice is to not underestimate the exam and to take your time learning the material. Otherwise you will feel like an idiot when Mr Senior Network Engineer starts grilling you on content you should know after passing the test

ande0255

I was fortunate enough to be on a conference call with Iris from here when she did a mock interview when he claimed to have CCNP level skills, and she maybe had to ask two questions at that level for him to admit he memorized the exam SWITCH (she asked switch related questions).

She was of course courteous and gave him some helpful pointers after he fessed up, but it just goes to show, you just need to study for the exam your taking and not assume because it looks the same at face value that it will reflect its content.

doctore

Well, I just got Chris Bryant's CCNP SWITCH book, skimmed it - nothing there that wasn't covered already in the CCNA...

brewboy

Sounds like you're ready then

shortstop20

doctore wrote: »

And again, this has already been covered in CCNA

I'm not saying that ROUTE would be easy. But my question was about SWITCH (see title of post) for a reason. There is just so much you can do on a switch and from what I'm seeing in the exam topics - it has already been covered in CCNA.

Keep in mind that the CCNA has just been refreshed and the CCNP is about two years old now. I would expect a CCNP refresh within the next year which will introduce new topics.

Legacy User

doctore wrote: »

but I'd rather not waste $300 just to find out that it's mostly theory again...

Well you do not have to take it if you don't want to. Regardless of how that the test is tested multiple choice/simlets, etc. This test is just meant to gauge your aptitude at the professional level nothing more. If its not a big deal to you just consider it a refresher and a easy pass right?

doctore

dmarcisco wrote: »

Well you do not have to take it if you don't want to. Regardless of how that the test is tested multiple choice/simlets, etc. This test is just meant to gauge your aptitude at the professional level nothing more. If its not a big deal to you just consider it a refresher and a easy pass right?

I made that statement when I though that CCNP SWITCH could be going into some deep concepts unknown to me. If I am to trust Chris Bryant - it really doesn't. I may pick up the Official Guide, just to be on the safe side.

Btw, I also took CCNA Security, which could explain why I am already quite familiar with material that may not be emphasized much in the CCNA R&S body of knowledge.

shortstop20 wrote: »

Keep in mind that the CCNA has just been refreshed and the CCNP is about two years old now. I would expect a CCNP refresh within the next year which will introduce new topics.

I think you may be onto something there...

I was using Cisco NetAcademy for the CCNA, and while we still used the old cert guide books (I don't think the new ones are out even now), Cisco provided us with a bunch of "bridging" material. For example, the PPPoE MTU ande0255 was talking about was not in the book, but part of said bridging material. Then again, it was mostly routing/cloud stuff...

ande0255

Yes I've found Chris Bryant does a great job at helping introduce new topics, and Keith Bogart from INE does a very good job at finishing them off, but I doubt I could have started my studies with his material because he jumps around and changes his mind during his videos so much it would be hard to know what was going on in his mind if I didn't already have a general idea.

It's funny when he gets pissed off by the normal routing behaviors (like the EIGRP ip default-network behavior), that he even insisted someone from Cisco watching the video should look into the behavior for future IOS releases, which I agree with but watching him fall apart on the video cracked me up.