Phd

GirlyGirl

Do you look favorably on those who obtained a PHD from a non-profit school versus a degree from a for-profit school?

I was just curious on your opinion, as if it matters to some. A PHD is a PHD. Although, some might look less favorably on a PHD from certain for-profit universities. Curious..

DatabaseHead

PHD is putting a huge target on your back. If you do decide to do this, you better have the chops to back it up and get it from a respectable school. People who get PHD's from less than exceptional schools tend to look like posers.

scada

DatabaseHead wrote: »

PHD is putting a huge target on your back. If you do decide to do this, you better have the chops to back it up and get it from a respectable school. People who get PHD's from less than exceptional schools tend to look like posers.

Did you want to expand on this ?

what do you view as an exceptional school?

What is your threshold for having the "Chops" ?

DatabaseHead

Not really to be honest but I will since you asked.......

Top 50 - 100 program in the respective field. If you can't make it in a top 50 - 100 PHD program most likely you need to redirect your focus.

Someone who is the in the top 10% of their industry.

Of course exceptions exists so those must be taken into account.

scada

Thanks for the input

Iristheangel

It depends on what the major is in. I don't think in IT in general the school choice really matters as much but then again, Ph.D. doesn't tend to matter as much from a security/network/systems point of view. I don't think you would be judged harshly at all for a Ph.D from any school if you're looking to focus in those areas. The again, I don't think a Ph.D holds that much weight anyways in those areas but "Dr GirlyGirl" certain has an awesome ring to it

GirlyGirl

Iristheangel wrote: »

It depends on what the major is in. I don't think in IT in general the school choice really matters as much but then again, Ph.D. doesn't tend to matter as much from a security/network/systems point of view. I don't think you would be judged harshly at all for a Ph.D from any school if you're looking to focus in those areas. The again, I don't think a Ph.D holds that much weight anyways in those areas but "Dr GirlyGirl" certain has an awesome ring to it

I needed a smile.

You are absolutely correct. I did a search on LinkedIn and based off the few minutes of clicks, the majority of President's and Vice President's of (IT) companies had the max, a graduate degree. I am only going off of the few minutes of clicks and the output. The one that did have a PhD got it from the University of Phoenix, which is a for profit school. I am not sure if I spent more time if the results could potentially change.

I am also not sure of the size of each organization that these CEO, Presidents, Vice Presidents, and CSO are leaders over.

From looking at USAJOBS, I see more of a benefit from having such a degree. So, the government sectors seems to benefit an individual more from a higher level degree than the others.

iBrokeIT

Curious, what skills will a PhD program help you develop into a better candidate for CEO, President, Vice President, and CSO that previous work experience or education did not provide?

infosec123

Speaking as someone with a Doctor of Science (Sc.D) in Cybersecurity from a non profit college, dont bother with a terminal degree unless you plan on teaching. A terminal degree isnt some magical piece of paper to get you into senior management. And if you do get a terminal degree, get one from a non profit as many (but not all) non profit colleges dont hold several for profit colleges in high regards. Its all really complicated so making broad statements like the one I just did isnt recommended for the most part, but IMO if you go the terminal degree route, get it from a non profit.

iBrokeIT wrote: »

Curious, what skills will a PhD program help you develop into a better candidate for CEO, President, Vice President, and CSO that previous work experience or education did not provide?

None really. Getting a terminal degree means you have added to the scientific body of knowledge of your topic, it doesn't mean you are a complete expert on your major. If I had to say what skills are developed, I would say writing, learning how to deal with BS bureaucracy, and kissing ass.

Iristheangel

Opps. That's one point I wanted to touch on that infosec123 nailed home. Ph.Ds and doctorates are great if the reason you're getting it is to go into academia for technology. Outside of that, it's not going to give you much of a bump....


... Though I still want to call you "The Doctor" if I ever meet you now... </end Dr Who nerdiness>

thomas_

I agree with what infosec123 said. It only really helps you if you are trying to teach at a university. Same thing with what infosec123 said about adding to the body of knowledge. I just don't see for profit PhD programs adding to a body of knowledge theough original research, more of just a check the box type of thing(which I guess might work for government jobs, but I think I would still steer clear of University of Phoenix.)

I had a professor in college say to get your advanced degrees from a University more prestigious than the university that you want to teach at(if you're toing that route) which kind of makes sense.

UnixGuy

If I'm being brutally honest with you, I don't see a real value in a PhD from a for-profit school. Reason being, PhD quality is judged based on the strength of the research output by that particular schools and for-profit schools aren't strong in research (see rankings).

The second point is that a PhD is an apprentice in research, so it should be used to get your foot in the door for a research job in academia, and a for-profit's school PhD will not get you entry to good research jobs as they're very competitive and you will be competing against candidates from better universities from EVERY part of the world, who have high quality published papers.


Last point is, in a PhD you will be researching one single topic, very deep, say a mathematical equation for example. you will read those research papers etc...but you will not gain valuable knowledge that you can apply to your work because it's a very narrow topic and mostly not even applicable in the real world.

Sorry to be the downer here, but I'd rather warn you before you invest 5 years (full time) or part-time equivalent, but I'm sure you've done your research (pun intended).

Danielm7

GirlyGirl wrote: »

You are absolutely correct. I did a search on LinkedIn and based off the few minutes of clicks, the majority of President's and Vice President's of (IT) companies had the max, a graduate degree. I am only going off of the few minutes of clicks and the output. The one that did have a PhD got it from the University of Phoenix, which is a for profit school. I am not sure if I spent more time if the results could potentially change.

If you want this for a Sr manager position some day then look into an MBA. Business skills are going to take you a lot further in that sort of position than a hyper focused technical doctorate degree.

ccie14023

UnixGuy wrote: »

If I'm being brutally honest with you, I don't see a real value in a PhD from a for-profit school. Reason being, PhD quality is judged based on the strength of the research output by that particular schools and for-profit schools aren't strong in research (see rankings).

Sorry to be the downer here, but I'd rather warn you before you invest 5 years (full time) or part-time equivalent, but I'm sure you've done your research (pun intended).

Very good points, UnixGuy. I know a mid-career professional who went back and got a PhD in Information Systems from Capella. Totally worthless.

Sometimes in the business or government world, any accredited doctoral degree is enough to qualify for some position, promotion, etc. But in general, the degree won't get you much in the academic world, and doctoral degrees are mostly meant for academia.

ITSec14

I personally feel that for-profit schools are lowering academic standards and should not be recognized the same way. They accept almost anyone because making money is their goal.

Most of the time you can obtain a degree from a top rated university for much less than a for-profit school.

Just my .02...

the_Grinch

A former professor, who is a friend now, put it pretty well: resumes with a Doctorate from certain schools went right to the trash bin when they received them for teaching positions. Given the current state of things, just about every non-profit has an online component and is generally cheaper than the for profits. As others have stated, I wouldn't do it if you don't want to teach or do research.

aspiringsoul

As someone who has a degree from a "For-Profit" and two Private Non-Profit Universities...I strongly recommend that you stay away from For-Profit Schools. They are a tax payer funded scam at worst, and a poor investment at best.

https://www.help.senate.gov/imo/media/for_profit_report/Contents.pdf

https://www.republicreport.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/D-Halperin-Stealing-Americas-Future-ebook.pdf

stryder144

Danielm7 wrote: »

If you want this for a Sr manager position some day then look into an MBA. Business skills are going to take you a lot further in that sort of position than a hyper focused technical doctorate degree.

I concur. My research into what it takes to get into senior levels of leadership in a lot of companies consistently points to both an M.Sc and an MBA.

scaredoftests

an old scientist that I used to work with, said of his PhD that it was 'post hole digger'.

Danielh22185

I've only ever encountered one person ever in my career of IT that had a Ph.d. His doctorate was in Biology and he had made a career change to IT Talk about the ultimate way to flush money, time, and education down the toilet.

Granted he is one of the most intelligent individuals I have ever encountered, which speaks to his current success now in IT, however he agrees too he wasted a lot of time and money in the past.

ITSec14

Danielh22185 wrote: »

I've only ever encountered one person ever in my career of IT that had a Ph.d. His doctorate was in Biology and he had made a career change to IT Talk about the ultimate way to flush money, time, and education down the toilet.

Granted he is one of the most intelligent individuals I have ever encountered, which speaks to his current success now in IT, however he agrees too he wasted a lot of time and money in the past.

Funny. I worked with a guy who was a biologist for years before switching to IT. Super smart guy as well. I think science majors in general can be good in technology because of their ability to dissect complex concepts.

TLeTourneau

It also depends on company culture. I work with several people with doctorates (not including M.D.'s) including DSc and DBA's, such pursuits are encouraged where I work. That doesn't mean I am going to go that route when I complete my Masters just that some companies like it.