What is going on with potential employers?

ReonBalisty

I have been to several interviews since I have taken advice from Tech Exams forums regarding my issues with being hired. I get interviews, but nothing pans out.

Example of a more recent interview:
It was with a local hospital for a help desk position(via MODIS a staffing agency), they were only concerned about my lack of enterprise level experience. In which I was forth coming that I could learn quickly and pick up what was needed to be done quite simply.
I explained I spent 16 years doing freelance technology consulting/break fix issues. Everything from re-imaging Win98SE machines, to resetting a router to stock settings and having to rebuild the whole template of security settings for residential use.

Am I missing something? I was told that I didn't get this job because the person they brought on had 5 years experience doing Help Desk. (Who does 5 years Help desk without pursuing more responsibility in another IT job?)

Another recent experience, I was considered for a PC technician, got through 2 interviews, only to never hear back from them, I assume they found someone else as it has been 1 month and I left a message for the hiring manager to call me with an update 10 days from the second interview.

For the most part the staffing agency representative is telling me that the only thing I have not going for me is the lack of Experience. So my AA-IT and my A+/Net+ certs mean pretty much nothing with all that effort I put into getting them?

What are your thoughts?

mikey88

It's a game of numbers. Apply apply apply. More interviews= a better chance of getting a job offer. If there are 50 applicants to 1 job opening, employers can and should be picky.

pitviper

ReonBalisty wrote: »

Who does 5 years Help desk without pursuing more responsibility in another IT job?

You'd be surprised at how many career help deskers I see.

NetworkNewb

Only thing you can do is keep working on your interview skills. If you got to the interview stage and didn't get the job, it means someone interviewed better than you. Plain and simple.

Go over all the questions you can remember and try to think where you could've answered something better. Maybe try and come up with better stories or answers on where you excelled at something. Or maybe it wasn't anything technical and maybe just need to work on connecting with the people interviewing with you more... Usually these things come more naturally by just going on more and more interviews.

kiki162

Lack of experience and education is your issue.

As much as you want to talk about your freelancing work, it really doesn't matter until you have the education to back it up. I had the same issue when I first started in the mid 90's with no degree and very little on experience. I took a couple of classes at the local community college, got a few help desk jobs along the way and eventually peaked a few years later. Came to the realization that I had to go back to college, and at least start with an Associates. What helped me out was getting my MCSE first, then got a job that helpful pay for me to finish my AA degree.

This industry has forced many of us to implement what I call the "continuous learning" approach. Work on getting those certs, go back to school for your Bachelor's degree. Even if your degree takes you 5 years to complete, who cares, as long as you can show you are doing something. You need to have something on your plate whether it be school, classes, certs, or whatever. Start putting a timeline together on what goals you want to achieve over the next few months and years, but start small. Getting your MCSE takes 5 exams to complete, which is doable in less than a year.

If you feel that's too much effort on your part and you aren't willing to invest the time in yourself to be successful in this industry, you'll keep hitting that "brick wall" over and over again. I know its probably not what you want to hear. Remember you need to get "uncomfortable" to be "comfortable"

ReonBalisty

kiki162 wrote: »

Lack of experience and education is your issue.

As much as you want to talk about your freelancing work, it really doesn't matter until you have the education to back it up.

I am into my second term of WGU for my BSIT-Security. Hence why I have the two certs aforementioned. And I mention this in my spiel as to my "continued education" question that always comes up in and interview. For some reason, they like 1+ years experience in an enterprise environment.

My current project, which is coming to close here soon, is taking my Security+ Certification. Following that is the Linux+, Cisco certs(CCENT, CCNA, CCNA-Security), & Project+. MCSE in the future, but right now I want to get my foot in the door, or these pieces of paper are useless.

techfiend

Do you have WGU on your resume? Do you bring up your near future education goals in interviews?

Those were key for me getting into the field. I had 3 job offers within a month; full-time enterprise second shift help desk, full time SMB first shift help desk, SMB part time days desktop support.

I took the part time position because I felt it would help me finish WGU quicker and the potential to get into servers and networks quicker than the others. The position only lasted a year but catapulted me into what I really wanted to do, an engineer position that lasted nearly two years. Now I'm faced with senior/lead engineer at an SMB which is my goal or taking a step back to admin roles at the enterprise level. I wonder where'd I'd be if I had taken the less interesting enterprise job to begin with.

ReonBalisty

techfiend wrote: »

Do you have WGU on your resume? Do you bring up your near future education goals in interviews?

Those were key for me getting into the field. I had 3 job offers within a month; full-time enterprise second shift help desk, full time SMB first shift help desk, SMB part time days desktop support.

The Answer to your questions at the top, Yes, I explain that I am doing such, where I am gong with my classes and which Certs they are having me do, and my end goal of education through WGU.
I maybe have had 2 interviews post my Network+ (got at the end of August), Total interviews this year, 6. So either I have the worst luck against other people going for these jobs, or this area is just a pool of nothing.

techfiend

Are you getting a good % of positive responses after applying?

If not, you may want to focus on your resume. If you want a critique by managers and others that have been in the same situation feel free to post it here after removing personal information. It really helped me get more interviews.

ReonBalisty

techfiend wrote: »

Are you getting a good % of positive responses after applying?

If not, you may want to focus on your resume. If you want a critique by managers and others that have been in the same situation feel free to post it here after removing personal information. It really helped me get more interviews.

I was contemplating posting a stripped down resume here. Alas, I had several staffing agencies even say the resume is perfect except for the lack of IT EXP on the enterprise level.
This last interview at the hospital and the Software firm had both given me a great emotional response in regards to my interviews and my resume. Both places had given me second interviews, so I assume it is because lack of EXP in an Enterprise environment.

Danielm7

Helpdesk is usually a starting place, if you're getting in and getting beaten out it's probably your interview style. There might be a bit of not selling yourself well, but that falls back to the interview style too. As another poster mentioned, lots of people are lifetime help desk workers. I just had a guy at my company work in desktop engineering for a year learning SCCM/Powershell/software packaging only to be ask to be moved back down to helpdesk because he was more comfortable there and has spent 20+ years in desktop support.

Your certs are fine, 16 years of freelance could be amazing, but if the first things you're telling us are that you worked with 98SE and reset residential routers that's sub geek squad level so that isn't really helping you. If anything they might think you can't work in a traditional corporate environment and you might be losing out to someone without any IT experience but has done customer service and painted a more corp friendly picture.

As you said, I'd put up a resume here to let everyone pick it apart, might be surprised. If it really is perfect that it comes down to one last part, the interview.

Dojiscalper

What part of "enterprise level" are you lacking? If its the compartmentalization aspect they are nuts, if its "you don't have experience administrating 5,000 servers" then I can understand as I'm in that same boat.

I've been having the same hard time getting an in house job, I get field service jobs pretty easily, but I totally blame it on my very bad interview skills.

UncleB

ReonBalisty wrote: »

...they were only concerned about my lack of enterprise level experience. In which I was forth coming that I could learn quickly and pick up what was needed to be done quite simply.
I explained I spent 16 years doing freelance technology consulting/break fix issues.

Have any of these 16 years been in an enterprise environment? If not then your interviewer is probably seeing you as a square peg (ie you can only do break/fix for small time outfits) looking for a round hole. To do the same low level tasks for so long without moving up implies that you are either comfortable doing this (and hence wouldn't take a change well) or aren't good enough. This will be your main challenge to explain away.

ReonBalisty wrote: »

Am I missing something? I was told that I didn't get this job because the person they brought on had 5 years experience doing Help Desk. (Who does 5 years Help desk without pursuing more responsibility in another IT job?)

A lot of people find Help Desk work easy enough, satisfying enough and well paid enough to not need to move on - emphasis on "enough" as they don't all need to climb mountains technically in their career and like the regular hours, predictable tasks and variable workload. It is great for some people with interests outside of work (family, hobbies etc) as it doesn't require self study, on call etc so they can have a predicatable quality of life.

These people don't tend to move on much so you can find they are blocking positions you may be hoping to get.

There is also the people who aren't good enough to move on so they settle for this being as good as they can get. So long as they don't mess up badly they can endure in these positions for decades and be pretty useful.

ReonBalisty wrote: »

For the most part the staffing agency representative is telling me that the only thing I have not going for me is the lack of Experience. So my AA-IT and my A+/Net+ certs mean pretty much nothing with all that effort I put into getting them?

Experience with the technology in your certs makes them valuable otherwise they are only good enough to get you an interview. You need the experience of seeing where the material you learned falls down or in inadequate (or downright untrue) - where bugs, features that don't work or undocumented tools are a big part of the support work but are not mentioned in the training and where the experience of how this technology interfaces with other enterprise elements is invaluable.

It takes patience and persistance to get the role but you are doing the right thing by trying to gain every advantage by asking for help here - getting a sanitised copy of your CV up would be a good next step.

volfkhat

Ahem,

1) if you don't post your resume... all we can do is blindly speculate. So....

2) What kind of jobs are you applying for? It sounds like the last two were for Helpdesk (you didnt say what level) and desktop technician? If i am going to blindly speculate.... you have been applying to mostly entry-level gigs? this leads me to my next point,

3) You are OVER-qualified for Entry-level, but UNDER-qualified for mid-tier gigs.

4) How old are you? (at a certain point; age description will be a factor)

5) Where do you live? (again, we can only speculate)


Whelp, i'm leaning towards point #3 (for the source of your troubles).
If you are trying to land an "in house" enterprise gig... i would create a new resume.

Drop the 16 years of experience, and only show the last 4-5 years.
Remove all references to stuff that show your "age".
Make your resume look like someone in their mid 20's.
In any potential interviews, do NOT talk about the 16 years of EXP you have; make yourself appear equal to the job you are applying for.
If an Employers thinks you are "better" than the position... they can assume you wont stick around long-term.

Many Employers want people that they can control; people with fewer options, people who wont push back, etc;
sometimes you got to play along.


Keep applying for gigs; use Both resumes if you want.
I suspect your "younger" resume might get you more results...
(but that's just blind speculation)

kiki162

I agree with some of the responses on here about your resume. You need to craft it like someone in their early 20's just starting out. Yes drop the 16 years of freelancing, it won't help you with interviews. Also, don't rely on the WGU path. If you want to wait another 2+ years till you complete your degree, then that's certainly fine. But it sounds like you want to get a job sooner then that.

Far as your "current project" with the CompTIA certifications, the Sec+ is always good to have, and Linux+ may be good if you want to get a high-level understanding of Linux. IMO Project+ is a waste of time, but it's apart of the WGU curriculum, so take what you can get. MCSA, MCSE or CCNA should be in your immediate future after Sec+. Why? Ask anyone on here if they got a helpdesk job on CompTIA certs alone. Even if you started with MCSA: Windows 10. That's 2 exams and a good starting point to show recruiters what you have already done.

You resume needs to reflect "current" technologies. I've seen WAY too many resumes in the past from ppl applying for jobs with all kinds of outdated crap, BS, and stuff they really don't know. Take a look at the jobs you are applying to. Do they need someone with Windows 8.1/10 or Windows Server 2012 experience, etc? Just because someone had experience working with 98se or might be a "quick learner" doesn't work well with recruiters.

Not sure if you were working in another industry while doing the freelancing work. If you got into an interview and the recruiter asked about your background, you could say something like this:

"I was working as a ___ while doing freelance IT work, decided I wanted to make a change, so I went back to school. I'm currently enrolled at WGU pursuing a degree in _____, and plan on working towards my ____ certification."

One thing you may want to consider looking into is your local Best Buy Geek Squad. Again, it's not ideal, but its a step in the right direction. If you go that route, that will at least give you some experience, while you pursue your degree and add a few more certifications to the resume.

If you want a review of your resume to help in your efforts, go ahead and post it, but redact the personal info.

Muddles

As Volfkhat had mentioned above.. I am also very interested in what your resume looks like and you probably need to work on how you conduct yourself in interviews. Maybe even some examples of job posting requirements.

One thing I must say as well, which really helped me after numerous of failed interviews.. is to remember that they should be two-sided. Show that you are interested and want to learn more about the company and position. Whenever I go in an interview now, I have several pages with me usually of questions to ask the interviewer about. Whether it is about the culture/environment of the workplace or related to day-to-day activities and expectations.

One of the best, yet toughest to ask.. is at the very end of an interview.. be bold and ask them something along the lines of: "With everything that has been discussed, is there anything that you might feel like that stands out that I need to improve or that makes you feel I would not be suitable for this position, with the exception of lacking work experience?".

I always seems to get some great answers and odd looks.. really makes them think sometimes.

NetworkNewb

He is getting interviews. Why do people think it is his resume that is the problem? Or even his education or experience? The managers know what kind of experience and education he has going into the interview. They aren't going to waste their time if they didn't want to hear what he had to say.

Work on the interview skills like I said before...

sillymcnasty

I personally would be weirded out if someone with 16 years IT experience came to me for a help desk job that isn't just a 2nd job for more money. So I'm +1 on the drop the 16 year bit.

scaredoftests

sillymcnasty wrote: »

I personally would be weirded out if someone with 16 years IT experience came to me for a help desk job that isn't just a 2nd job for more money. So I'm +1 on the drop the 16 year bit.

Agreed.

ReonBalisty

As you requested

ReonBalisty

NetworkNewb wrote: »

He is getting interviews. Why do people think it is his resume that is the problem? Or even his education or experience? The managers know what kind of experience and education he has going into the interview. They aren't going to waste their time if they didn't want to hear what he had to say.

Work on the interview skills like I said before...

I mean I felt it was my interview skills, so these last 2 interviews I had I changed it up. And As I stated that I didn't hear from one of the places at all. The Staffing agency I was going through did state the only thing I was missing compared to the person chosen was the enterprise exp, as in (I know a few of you have asked what enterprise exp is) working directly with Active directory outside of an educational environment, and things of the like, live servers, etc.

cbdudek

As someone who has done hiring in IT, here are some things I am noticing about your resume.

First, you do have a lot of experience listed. If you are applying for helpdesk jobs, that can be something that would work against you. I would drop the freelancing bit as well and just focus on your overall experience in a business environment.

Second, for your current WGU education, you may want to put down "expected graduation" and a date or month/year instead of "currently attending". It would show employers that you have a goal and are looking to achieve it by a certain time period.

Third, what is working against you in your jobs is indeed your lack of experience and education. The education you are tackling. The certifications you have are good for an entry level position. You have some decent experience here, but nothing in terms of true IT experience. You really are going to be starting out in a helpdesk position which is true entry level. Why is there such a large gap in your employment after you graduated high school until 2012?

I can tell you that from looking at your resume that if you are looking for an entry level IT job, most organizations are looking for someone that has a 2 or 4 year degree in IT and maybe some IT related experience in a helpdesk in college or some other role. You have a 2 year degree from UOP which many know is a degree mill, but you may find someone to bite on it. It just doesn't hold a lot of credibility in the industry to many who work in the industry.

You may want to include a link to your linkedin profile into your resume instead of stating that you can find more skills on your linkedin account.

I hope these things help.

ReonBalisty

cbdudek wrote: »

As someone who has done hiring in IT, here are some things I am noticing about your resume.

First, you do have a lot of experience listed. If you are applying for helpdesk jobs, that can be something that would work against you. I would drop the freelancing bit as well and just focus on your overall experience in a business environment.

Second, for your current WGU education, you may want to put down "expected graduation" and a date or month/year instead of "currently attending". It would show employers that you have a goal and are looking to achieve it by a certain time period.


You may want to include a link to your linkedin profile into your resume instead of stating that you can find more skills on your linkedin account.

Took out the linkedin link for stripped down reasons, it was in the header, adding my other "job" experience for during and post highschool would have created a 2-3 page document. None of that job experience was worth noting, and it would have been filler. And I will be adding expected completion date for the BSIT here in the next iteration.

sillymcnasty

I've never been a hiring manager, but personally, you put that you had OS training but not specifically what you can do with said training? Also XP and Vista are out of date -- I would get rid of the specific OS and just put Windows, and what skills you can perform. But that's just me.

Also, high school was 10 years ago, not sure if it needs to be there?

Also, if you can do some home setups of things, you can mention that in the interviews. I told people, truthfully, that I bought a bunch of routers and switches for the CCNA and just messed with opening and closing ports etc. It helps.

techfiend

The reason I brought up resume is he mentioned he had been on 6 interviews this year. I don't know how much he's applied but I've been at that point of applying for everything but not getting many interviews. A better resume resolved that and led to one week with 8 interviews a few years ago.

As far as the resume goes you have 10 seconds to prove that you are a good candidate. This is often a professional summary at the top. I would make a 2-3 sentence summary proving indirectly that you can perform the job at a high level by having proven customer service skills, quickly learn new technologies, etc. I'd take out all the deprecated technologies. If you know Windows 7 you can manage 8 and 10 without much issue, add those. If you know office 2013, you can manage 2016.

I was in a similar position thinking I could get an entry level position based on my experience with old technologies, I had netware on my resume at one point. What helped me is rather than try to prove my current skills I focused on learning potential. I also needed to show a personality that fits in well with the culture. There's nothing worse than someone the group can't work with even if he knows everything.

I'm not saying this is you, I used to be quiet, short sentenced and tense in interviews mainly because I wasn't comfortable with what I was depending on, my skills. Job offers started pouring in once I stopped trying to be a know it all and answer questions that I don't know with I can learn. I became more comfortable in interviews and started opening up to these strangers in an interview, there's something to be said about human dynamics in the workplace. It's not necessarily what you said or did but how they feel after the interview. Make them feel like you are the candidate.

boxerboy1168

You are not alone. I know a lot of people who just gave up and got into other fields.

kabooter

UncleB wrote: »

A lot of people find Help Desk work easy enough, satisfying enough and well paid enough to not need to move on - emphasis on "enough" as they don't all need to climb mountains technically in their career and like the regular hours, predictable tasks and variable workload. It is great for some people with interests outside of work (family, hobbies etc) as it doesn't require self study, on call etc so they can have a predicatable quality of life.

These people don't tend to move on much so you can find they are blocking positions you may be hoping to get.

There is also the people who aren't good enough to move on so they settle for this being as good as they can get. So long as they don't mess up badly they can endure in these positions for decades and be pretty useful.

Very true indeed, I have come across employees who have spent more than 25 years in help desk environment. Not every place is crazy busy

sza

Like others have said, drop the 16 years of freelance experience. I got my my IT job doing help desk 5 years ago with no degree and only an A+ cert. You need to demonstrate that you have a go getter mentality and a can do attitude. Eventually someone will take a chance on you. You may not get paid well at first but your goal is to get your foot in the door.

volfkhat

techfiend wrote: »

I was in a similar position thinking I could get an entry level position based on my experience with old technologies, I had netware on my resume at one point...

i still do!
lol

But mainly just for bragging rights :]

scaredoftests

volfkhat wrote: »

i still do!
lol

But mainly just for bragging rights :]

same here.

techfiend

Professional experience with netware?

In college I had to decide between netware 5 or nt 4. Netware was suggested at the time. Before I finished college win 2000 was taking netware's thunder.