What if after all certs you don't

MrSecurityGuyMrSecurityGuy Posts: 22Member ■□□□□□□□□□
Find a job? Has anyone been in this situation ever? You work hard get your certs but not end up finding a job WHERE you live?

Yes yes I know you need exp and certs both but seriously it's a catch 22 and we all know that this industry is notorious for new comers.


Oh - don't consider this post to be a neg. Just a thought I have been having for last few days when your alone STUDYING your ass off at 34 (soon) and your FRIENDS are out over the weekend partying / out of town and you can't go because you end up telling them HOW YOU GOT TO Work or watch the KIDS when really your just studying for a cert.

Haha, I can't be the only one in this situation.

Comments

  • IristheangelIristheangel CCIEx2 (Sec + DC), CCNP RS, CCNA V/S/R/DC, CISSP, CEH, MCSE 2003, A+/L+/N+/S+, and a lot more from m Pasadena, CAPosts: 4,116Mod Mod
    It's not ALL certs but location is key, resume looking crisp, going for the right jobs, etc. I wrote a post on different things you should focus on in improving your career and it touches on some of these things: http://www.techexams.net/forums/jobs-degrees/119817-career-job-advice-observations.html
    BS, MS, and CCIE #50931
    Blog: www.network-node.com
    Bonus TE Fun: Nerd Photos
  • Bjcheung77Bjcheung77 Posts: 89Member ■■□□□□□□□□
    I'm not in that same situation, I am about a decade older than you and currently working as a Technical Analyst. Are you currently working? You shouldn't worry about getting a job, you should focus on your certification. When I started in IT about two decades ago, I was done with a program in A+/Net+, but got a job in computer service/sales to get the hang of things.

    After two years, started in HelpDesk/Deskside Support for 7.5 years, at my current company, I worked my way up to Technical Analyst 9 years ago but I am going for certs and may go for a Masters degree in 2018. In short, start small and work your way up, show your work ethic, display your talents... if it's recognized, great, if not... continue pushing forward.
  • NotHackingYouNotHackingYou Posts: 1,460Member ■■■■■■■■□□
    Just like if you don't pass, keep trying.
    When you go the extra mile, there's no traffic.
  • d4nz1gd4nz1g Posts: 464Member
    It's not ALL certs but location is key, resume looking crisp, going for the right jobs, etc. I wrote a post on different things you should focus on in improving your career and it touches on some of these things: http://www.techexams.net/forums/jobs-degrees/119817-career-job-advice-observations.html

    ditto this

    First of all, how many IT jobs (in general) do you see around you? If there are many, what would be the main focus (be it development, IT infrastructure, IT security, and etc) of the companies that are based in your location?

    For example, the city I am originally from had many software dev related jobs, and once in a lifetime a networking job would come up. This one would be taken by a friend of an employee and such (networking with other guys comes right here). Not many vendors/ISP/professional services/partners around.

    Needless to say, moved to a bigger city where I could find many ISPs, multinational companies, and etc.

    The problem might not be in how your resume look like, or lack of experience at all. Sometimes you just does not have the experience the big guys around you are looking for (industry focus, in short).

    Being in the US makes things easier in my opinion, bigger companies and such. For sure you won't get a 3x CCIE role in a city with 1000 people. It's even worse if you won't consider 100% remote jobs. In my country, there are roughly 5 cities where my experience would be suitable to get a good paying job. Otherwise I would be still configuring switches and replacing gear as told by the guys in the head offices.

    Think of it as specializing in fishing while looking for work in the middle of the country.
  • yoba222yoba222 Posts: 961Member ■■■■■■□□□□
    Still no job after getting all the certs . . . stop getting more certs and focus on getting the job. Too many certs and no experience makes it harder to get hired.
    Obtained: A+ | Network+ | Security+ | CySA+ | PenTest+ | CAPM | eJPT | CCNA R&S | CCNA CyberOps | GCIH | LFCS
    2019: Virtual Hacking Labs then OSCP
  • scaredoftestsscaredoftests Security +, ITIL Foundation, MPT, EPO, ACAS, HTL behind youPosts: 2,687Mod Mod
    it is the experience too...
    Never let your fear decide your fate....
  • MrSecurityGuyMrSecurityGuy Posts: 22Member ■□□□□□□□□□
    Just like if you don't pass, keep trying.

    +1 right on!
  • MrSecurityGuyMrSecurityGuy Posts: 22Member ■□□□□□□□□□
    yoba222 wrote: »
    Still no job after getting all the certs . . . stop getting more certs and focus on getting the job. Too many certs and no experience makes it harder to get hired.

    I only have 1 cert (Sec+), working on CCNA; R&S. End goal: Security
  • EANxEANx Posts: 1,035Member ■■■■■■■□□□
    Certs + experience + location = success. You can do okay/well with just two but just one is pretty tough. Which is to say that if you have certs with no experience in a low-tech location, you better move.
  • Danielm7Danielm7 Posts: 2,237Member ■■■■■■■□□□
    I only have 1 cert (Sec+), working on CCNA; R&S. End goal: Security
    Do you have a job in IT now? If not I'd start looking for anything first, general IT experience is going to make finding a job in security a lot easier. Certs + 0 working experience is a very difficult sell for a security job.
  • McxRisleyMcxRisley OSCP, CASP, CySA+, CPT+, Sec+, CEH, Splunk Admin Posts: 467Member ■■■■□□□□□□
    Bjcheung77 wrote: »
    I'm not in that same situation, I am about a decade older than you and currently working as a Technical Analyst. Are you currently working? You shouldn't worry about getting a job, you should focus on your certification. When I started in IT about two decades ago, I was done with a program in A+/Net+, but got a job in computer service/sales to get the hang of things.

    After two years, started in HelpDesk/Deskside Support for 7.5 years, at my current company, I worked my way up to Technical Analyst 9 years ago but I am going for certs and may go for a Masters degree in 2018. In short, start small and work your way up, show your work ethic, display your talents... if it's recognized, great, if not... continue pushing forward.

    Wow helpdesk for 7.5 years..... you deserve a medal. I don't know anyone that would have stuck around in a helpdesk position for even half of that amount of time.
    I'm not allowed to say what my previous occupation was, but let's just say it rhymes with architect.
  • kiki162kiki162 Posts: 635Member
    I was there myself - but in my 20's. Yea Sec+ isn't gonna get you much in the way of a new job. Keep doing what you are doing, think about your end goals, and oh yeah think about where your friends are at in life. That was a big motivator for me, and the fact I can do better.

    You prob live either in the wrong location or don't have enough certs/exp together for the job you want.
  • cbdudekcbdudek Posts: 67Member ■■□□□□□□□□
    As someone who has done interviewing and hiring in IT, I can tell you it doesn't all come down to certs. Experience, education, and certifications are all important. You have to be strong in all 3 in order to be considered a top candidate. When we would get resumes for a network engineer position, we would get about 50 resumes. Of those, about 5 would have candidates with all 3 covered. Guess who we started with interviews. Those 5 of course. Odds are we picked someone from those 5. Entry level jobs are a bit difference since we aren't looking for experience, but education and a low level cert or two is a plus.

    Location is also a major piece of things. If you don't live in an area with many IT jobs, then you can't expect to get one very easily. Your ability to relocate is always going to help you find a job. If you can't then obviously its going to be harder.

    The good news is that you can still find a position but it will take a bit longer to get what you want. Keep working away on things.
  • NuclearBeavisNuclearBeavis Posts: 79Member ■■□□□□□□□□
    I only have 1 cert (Sec+), working on CCNA; R&S. End goal: Security

    This is the path I took. I got my Sec+ first, and nothing. I didn't start getting any interviews until I finished my CCNA R&S.
  • E Double UE Double U Posts: 1,538Member ■■■■■■■■□□
    Just a thought I have been having for last few days when your alone STUDYING your ass off at 34 (soon) and your FRIENDS are out over the weekend partying / out of town and you can't go because you end up telling them HOW YOU GOT TO Work or watch the KIDS when really your just studying for a cert.

    At the age of 34, I missed out on partying because I actually did have kids lol. I wouldn't miss out on a party to study unless the exam is the next day icon_lol.gif
    Alphabet soup: CISSP, CCSP, CISM, CISA, GPEN, GCIA, GCIH, GCCC, CEH, etc

    "You tried your best and you failed miserably. The lesson is, never try." - Homer Simpson
  • MrSecurityGuyMrSecurityGuy Posts: 22Member ■□□□□□□□□□
    When I was 18 did some tech support role for 1 year and desktop stuff in 20's for a year then jump to healthcare it stuff - got a job by knowing someone. The problem with healthcare it is your vendor specific to EMR and not much for growth other than being a PM. Anyhow, decided wanted to try security stuff and give a shot - this is huge in healthcare. But most of the folks at hospital are actual security guys with cissp. I know if I can get a bit of exp in security then i'm sure i can use my connection somehow.

    I DON"T want to go back to help desk, wouldn't mind starting as a soc analyst or something but NOT help desk / desktop support. Each company has different take on help desk and desktop.

    :)
  • fredrikjjfredrikjj Posts: 879Member
    I think that it's a pretty common situation to study and get a degree and/or certifications, but then fail to get a relevant job. I'm definitely in that category myself. I used to be really into networking and wanted to become a network engineer. I got some certifications and a degree in it, but I've since realized that the market for entry level IT jobs is highly competitive in my area and my resume isn't good enough overall to compete for those. Even though I consider my attempt at networking to be failure, one good thing came out of it: I was exposed to writing code, and coding has been very useful in the job I do now (mostly unrelated to IT). I continue to work on my programming skills, but the networking is slowly fading away.
  • Basic85Basic85 Senior Member Posts: 179Member ■■■□□□□□□□
    I need to get more certifications but I do worry. I worry that gaining all of these certs won't make me smart when in a technical interview.
  • NissekiNisseki Posts: 160Member
    Basic85 wrote: »
    I need to get more certifications but I do worry. I worry that gaining all of these certs won't make me smart when in a technical interview.

    You need to find your passion within IT as that will be your motivation.

    Start networking with people that share common interests in your local area and read books and watch videos that relate to the field you are looking to get into.
  • E Double UE Double U Posts: 1,538Member ■■■■■■■■□□
    Basic85 wrote: »
    I worry that gaining all of these certs won't make me smart when in a technical interview.

    Your worry is accurate. When I've had technical interviews I relied on work experience to answer questions. I don't recall answering technical questions based solely on something that I studied that I had not encountered on the job.
    Alphabet soup: CISSP, CCSP, CISM, CISA, GPEN, GCIA, GCIH, GCCC, CEH, etc

    "You tried your best and you failed miserably. The lesson is, never try." - Homer Simpson
  • MrSecurityGuyMrSecurityGuy Posts: 22Member ■□□□□□□□□□
    So are you saying networking is going away? is CCNA still worth it?
  • NuclearBeavisNuclearBeavis Posts: 79Member ■■□□□□□□□□
    So are you saying networking is going away? is CCNA still worth it?

    CCNA is well worth the time if you're trying to break into IT. What you want to weigh heavily is whether going high up the ladder in networking is the best path, i.e. going for something like CCIE. It comes down to personal interests and market need. Look at whats most valuable in the market today, not 10 years ago.
  • MrSecurityGuyMrSecurityGuy Posts: 22Member ■□□□□□□□□□
    nuclearbeavis:

    networking is not my end goal, security is. That said my understanding is security and ccna will get you some sort of entry soc analyst position and having networking knowledge wouldn't hurt. Is this not the case?

    the market right now is all about security and cloud but more interested in vulnerability and threat side of things.

    I really do want to avoid all possibility of working as network admin or engineer path.

    so after much research I decided to knock security+ and Ccna follow by ethical hacker cert. Hopefully, this will improve my resume and knock few competition out along the way.

    so am I on the right track? I mean do security folks really need ccna?

    I looked at few linkedin profile of cyber security guys doing soc and someone don't have any network certs just security stuff or vendor specific like splunk or qualys.

    I'm paying for all this out of pocket so I don't wanna waste time and money.
  • NuclearBeavisNuclearBeavis Posts: 79Member ■■□□□□□□□□
    so am I on the right track? I mean do security folks really need ccna?

    A good security person will have a solid grasp of networking. Like I said in an earlier post, I went the same path as you. Sec+, then CCNA. I thought I understood networking until I did my CCNA. It was eye-opening and taught me a lot. No regrets. It was also the first cert that helped me get job interviews. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad I did Sec+, too, but by itself it wasn't enough to open any doors.

    So do you need CCNA? No. But you do need a solid understanding of the basics of networking, and CCNA is a great way to get some of those fundamentals. It will help you nail down concepts as well as give you practical knowledge for working on some of the most industry-standard equipment. It's also going to get you past more HR filters than most other entry-level certs.

    Depending on what type of job you land, you never know how many hats you may have to wear. If you end up at a large company, then you may be able to get away with working in a strict SOC analyst role and doing nothing else. But if you end up at a small company, you'll likely have your hand in a dozen different stockings. This is the path I ended up on, and although stressful at times, it's quite rewarding.

    As for security people not showing CCNA on linkedin, they may have had it at one point and let it expire, or they may no longer list it because they've been in the field for a while and feel they don't need to. Or they be paper-cert people who just don't know that much. I've heard a few seasoned security people on this board complain about those sorts. It's important to understand the underlying technologies.

    I don't think you can make a mistake completing your CCNA.
  • McxRisleyMcxRisley OSCP, CASP, CySA+, CPT+, Sec+, CEH, Splunk Admin Posts: 467Member ■■■■□□□□□□
    You absolutely don't need the CCNA to work in security. The CCNA is only worth pursuing if you intend to have a career in networking. It can teach a lot about networking but it isn't necessary unless you plan to do networking.
    I'm not allowed to say what my previous occupation was, but let's just say it rhymes with architect.
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