Stop at MCSA?

12thlevelwarrior

I am really considering stopping at MCSA and pursuing other certs or degrees (ccna, linux stuff, c.s. degree). MCSE would take so long and I feel MCSA is more closely representative of what I do (day to day administration and not design). Anyone else thinking like this??

eurotrash

It's *only* a few more exams, and I think it is significantly more recognized than the MCSA.

But yeah, I'm also eager to take a break from MS.

Ricka182

I've been waiting to complete my MCSA for so long, I think I'll have to stop for a while if I ever do finish....But eventually, I'd like to have MCSE, but Cisco stuff always looks good too....

ESOK

I think its not worth getting your MCSE, unless you are going to deploy 2000/2003, design it, or your company is paying for it. If you are just going to administer existing 2000/2003 boxes than stopping at MCSA is fine.

If you want to go a little further than becoming a MCSA: Security or MCSA: Messaging (Exchange Server) is good. Exchange Server is everywhere so that will be extremely useful and everybody is concerned about security these days.

Also, HR people will often be more impressed with MCSA: Security, MCSA: Messaging, CCNA, Security+, Linux+ for example than just MCSE. Taking some different exams from different vendors will make you more well rounded in IT, versus specializing too much on just one vendor or area.

12thlevelwarrior

wow, excellent feedback, never thought of the mcsa + messaging, security... that is good, yeah i think i agreed with a statement i heard awhile back on the msce, which was you want certs to reflect what you do and now mcsa reflects exactly what i do and i would rather use the time gained from stopping at mcsa on ccna, linux, or scripting certs.

thanks for the feedback, i really enjoy this website.

Cool, just saw this on MS website. Still only have to take four exams and get messaging distinction. Ok, what if I don't have any real exchange experience???? Think this would be enough to satisfy an exchange experience requirement just being a portion of a new job or something?

http://www.microsoft.com/learning/mcp/mcsa/messaging/windowsserver2003.asp

Munck

A year ago I was in the same boat. I was getting into security, and the only reason for me to finish the MCSA was not to waste my 3 MCP's. If you want to be a MS admin full time, go for the MCSE. If not, go for other certifications. It is always good to divertify your skillset. I too, have thought about getting a distinction, but so far I have chosen to seek other certs that were more marketable security wise.

Trailerisf

Exchange exam is easy... (although I do have exchange experience) Its very staright forward.

garv221

I quit my Microsoft path. I am so burned out on Microsoft I could careless about the damn thing. I was reading an Exam Cram book one day in my office for 70-291 and I looked outside and thought WTF I am I doing. I grabbed a beer and my clubs & never looked back. They are absolutely boring to study for, you need ALOT just for a cert and everyone seems to hold them. Its not impressive to me anymore to have any miscrosoft certs, they are so many braindumps out there any dumb **** with a pulse can get MCSE. I will let my experience shine through over that cert.I have the same amount of respect for MCSA as I do A+. If I am going to study, I will make sure my time is spent on an worth while cert.. Ex. Cisco, anything VOIP, (ISC)2, to name a few.

Trailerisf

garv221 wrote:

I quit my Microsoft path. I am so burned out on Microsoft I could careless about the damn thing. I was reading an Exam Cram book one day in my office for 70-291 and I looked outside and thought WTF I am I doing. I grabbed a beer and my clubs & never looked back. They are absolutely boring to study for, you need ALOT just for a cert and everyone seems to hold them. Its not impressive to me anymore to have any miscrosoft certs, they are so many braindumps out there any dumb **** with a pulse can get MCSE. I will let my experience shine through over that cert.I have the same amount of respect for MCSA as I do A+. If I am going to study, I will make sure my time is spent on an worth while cert.. Ex. Cisco, anything VOIP, (ISC)2, to name a few.

True enough... but think of a clients perspective... If any idiot can get a mcse why can't you?

frankj1247

I think it's true that any retard could get his/her MCSE 2000 and that's why Microsoft Certs in general are looked upon as a boyscout badge. MCSE 2000 was known as a paper cert.

However, there is a distinct difference in difficulty between the old 2000 track and the new 2003 track. Many employees request a current MCSE because they know the difference between the two.

Also, having said that, I am taking a break from the Microsoft certs and persuing my CCNA right now. I should be done fairly soon, and I'm probably going to go back to my MCSE 2003 course studies, but I can't say that I'm looking forward to it. There is definitely alot of bullshit involved with the MCSE. I feel like I have learned more concrete information studying for my CCNA.

TeKniques

garv221 wrote:

I quit my Microsoft path. I am so burned out on Microsoft I could careless about the damn thing. I was reading an Exam Cram book one day in my office for 70-291 and I looked outside and thought WTF I am I doing. I grabbed a beer and my clubs & never looked back. They are absolutely boring to study for, you need ALOT just for a cert and everyone seems to hold them. Its not impressive to me anymore to have any miscrosoft certs, they are so many braindumps out there any dumb **** with a pulse can get MCSE. I will let my experience shine through over that cert.I have the same amount of respect for MCSA as I do A+. If I am going to study, I will make sure my time is spent on an worth while cert.. Ex. Cisco, anything VOIP, (ISC)2, to name a few.

I understand what you are saying, but I also disagree a little bit. I realize that there are a lot of cheaters out there that definitely devalue the certification. However, that being said, I have been working really hard to obtain my MCSE, and while I don't consider myself a 'dumbshit with a pulse' I do realize that some experience has to pull a lot of the weight with an MCSE.

Regardless, I have been working on my MCSE since last July and I'm hoping to be done here in the next few weeks, so I have put just about a year into it. I do not consider it a waste of time at all and it is a good stepping stone toward advancing my career.

jpeezy55

I have spent about 1 1/2 years working on my certs and 14 months of that was in a technical school. You can see what I have listed over there, although I did not list 70-290 which I passed a few months ago. I am working on Net+ and then going back to 291 to get my MCSA.

Sure, there are people out there who take the easy route and use brainfarts to pass, but what do they really know? Yes, someone may hire them, but the first time they need to do something meaningful, they are screwed. After all, Microsoft recommends that you are a Network Admin for at least 1 year before you even start your MCSA/MCSE exams. Also, to deter some of these losers from getting certs, Microsoft added the more realistic sims to the exams, so you now have to actually know how to do something, so it's going to mean more to those who have it because they will have put in a true effort and the "cheaters" will just be phased out. I don't get to do network admin-type stuff where I work now (I'm a PC Tech in school district) and finding an Entry Level Admin job is next to impossible around here (Pennsylvania), so it's tough right now, but I'm going to keep trying and I'll get there, but I don't think that any old dumb **** will pass MCSE today, maybe a few, but not as many as 2000 had...

If you want it, you have to work at it. If you don't want to work at it, then you really don't want it that badly and should move out of the way of those of us that do.

Hooray for me! I just realized that this is my 100th post!!!

endersftd

I'm not disagreeing with anything that has been said so far. It is extremely important to understand if what you are studying is really worth all the time and effort (and expense) needed to complete it. Especially since life is so short.

However, since we all have to think about the future, there's another thing to consider about certifications. You may be in a position one day where you want to find a new IT job. So you start looking. You've already got a few certifications that reflect what you do now, but what if you find a job opportunity that includes things you don't currently do and requires a certification you don't currently have? Given this scenario, it is possible that having certifications in things you don't currently do often helps, because you're prepared for future jobs.

For example, my brother recently took a job in Florida doing copyrighting and graphic design. He tells me that everyone there uses Windows PCs, except the graphics department - they use Macs. I also know that they only employee a couple of IT staff. That means that they must know how to support not only PCs but also Macs. Now I don't know what the chances are of being in a situation where you'd have to support PC and Mac, but that is why I am considering purchasing a Mac Mini and trying to get my Apple certification in desktop hardware. If I were to ever look for a job and then found one that required knowledge, and possibly certification on Mac, if I already had the certification, I'm all prepared for the opportunity.

Just another thing to keep in mind. Certifications are an investment. You must consider if the investment is worth the expense and effort - meaning, do you think the certification will pay off in the end. To continue the example, Mac certification would be easy for me, since I used to use Macs in OS 7.5 and OS 8.6 years ago (I don't currently). That plus the fact that they're built on PCI and now Intel architecture, lots of things are similar to A+ as far as the hardware goes. Personally I'm considering it a "fun" certification, so I don't mind preparing for it. MCSE on the other hand is a whole other animal.

garv221

Trailerisf wrote:

True enough... but think of a clients perspective... If any idiot can get a mcse why can't you?

Do I need to explain this to you again?

I quit my Microsoft path. I am so burned out on Microsoft I could careless about the damn thing. I was reading an Exam Cram book one day in my office for 70-291 and I looked outside and thought WTF I am I doing. I grabbed a beer and my clubs & never looked back. They are absolutely boring to study for, you need ALOT just for a cert and everyone seems to hold them. Its not impressive to me anymore to have any miscrosoft certs, they are so many braindumps out there any dumb **** with a pulse can get MCSE. I will let my experience shine through over that cert.I have the same amount of respect for MCSA as I do A+. If I am going to study, I will make sure my time is spent on an worth while cert.. Ex. Cisco, anything VOIP, (ISC)2, to name a few.

For eveyone else besides that guy, I apologize if I offended those who obtained the cert. I understand it is a good tool bundled with experience and a smart, hard working tech. I myself was on the path to get it. I actualy had a voucher for 291 & let it expire. I would have purely been brushing up to pass the exam, not to learn anything new, kind of like the A+. I was going to do MCSA because I didn't need or want to brush up as far as MCSE and MCSA sounded close enough for a client to be convinced. But I got bored of that too & my experience/title can cover the rest. There just seems there is alot more to learn in the higher security & Cisco certs that would answer some questions or open new doors of curiosity for me.

Chivalry1

I think my quote says it all. Read below......

strauchr

garv221 wrote:

Trailerisf wrote:

True enough... but think of a clients perspective... If any idiot can get a mcse why can't you?

Do I need to explain this to you again?

I quit my Microsoft path. I am so burned out on Microsoft I could careless about the damn thing. I was reading an Exam Cram book one day in my office for 70-291 and I looked outside and thought WTF I am I doing. I grabbed a beer and my clubs & never looked back. They are absolutely boring to study for, you need ALOT just for a cert and everyone seems to hold them. Its not impressive to me anymore to have any miscrosoft certs, they are so many braindumps out there any dumb **** with a pulse can get MCSE. I will let my experience shine through over that cert.I have the same amount of respect for MCSA as I do A+. If I am going to study, I will make sure my time is spent on an worth while cert.. Ex. Cisco, anything VOIP, (ISC)2, to name a few.

For eveyone else besides that guy, I apologize if I offended those who obtained the cert. I understand it is a good tool bundled with experience and a smart, hard working tech. I myself was on the path to get it. I actualy had a voucher for 291 & let it expire. I would have purely been brushing up to pass the exam, not to learn anything new, kind of like the A+. I was going to do MCSA because I didn't need or want to brush up as far as MCSE and MCSA sounded close enough for a client to be convinced. But I got bored of that too & my experience/title can cover the rest. There just seems there is alot more to learn in the higher security & Cisco certs that would answer some questions or open new doors of curiosity for me.

No offense but you come across as kinda lazy. Despite the fact some people **** at ALL certs (except labs of course) it doesn't mean they are not worthwhile. It shows discipline, interest, and knowledge that experience can NOT teach you.

Thats all argumentative I guess but the fact is some places require an MCSA/E to even be interviewed so I'd rather cover all bases. Quite important for contractors and if you want to work for any big certified partner companies.

Still, one less certified person to contend with

strauchr

endersftd wrote:

I'm not disagreeing with anything that has been said so far. It is extremely important to understand if what you are studying is really worth all the time and effort (and expense) needed to complete it. Especially since life is so short.

However, since we all have to think about the future, there's another thing to consider about certifications. You may be in a position one day where you want to find a new IT job. So you start looking. You've already got a few certifications that reflect what you do now, but what if you find a job opportunity that includes things you don't currently do and requires a certification you don't currently have? Given this scenario, it is possible that having certifications in things you don't currently do often helps, because you're prepared for future jobs.

For example, my brother recently took a job in Florida doing copyrighting and graphic design. He tells me that everyone there uses Windows PCs, except the graphics department - they use Macs. I also know that they only employee a couple of IT staff. That means that they must know how to support not only PCs but also Macs. Now I don't know what the chances are of being in a situation where you'd have to support PC and Mac, but that is why I am considering purchasing a Mac Mini and trying to get my Apple certification in desktop hardware. If I were to ever look for a job and then found one that required knowledge, and possibly certification on Mac, if I already had the certification, I'm all prepared for the opportunity.

Just another thing to keep in mind. Certifications are an investment. You must consider if the investment is worth the expense and effort - meaning, do you think the certification will pay off in the end. To continue the example, Mac certification would be easy for me, since I used to use Macs in OS 7.5 and OS 8.6 years ago (I don't currently). That plus the fact that they're built on PCI and now Intel architecture, lots of things are similar to A+ as far as the hardware goes. Personally I'm considering it a "fun" certification, so I don't mind preparing for it. MCSE on the other hand is a whole other animal.

Getting Apple certs may be quite worthwhile. Nice little niche to be certified in. I just would count on it being the only cert though as you have explained most work places are Windows with a couple of Macs thrown in.

jpeezy55

I was just on an interview yesterday (did not work out because I am not able to travel much and this job required lots of travel, one example they gave me was that they would tell you on Monday you are going to California for 2 weeks and that's it, you were on a plane tuesday morning...and with me going back to college for the next 2.5 years, it wasn't for me...)

Anyway, the moral of this story, the guy interviewing me is an MCSE. I told him I plan to take Net+ and then 291 to get my MCSA. His next question/statement was this: Do you plan to continue and get the MCSE (I said yes, which I do) and then he said that that he highly recommends it, because that is one of the first things he looks at from applicants, what certs do they hold and are they getting more.

It ended on a good and positive note with them asking me to contact them again in a few months with an updated resume and see if they have any IT Support positions open...The guy told me, "Keep pestering us with resumes and updates, we don't know when we will have the need for a full-time IT staff." and to make sure I am always in their system of resumes and applicants.

Bottom line: some companies, like this one anyway, want certs and the more, the merrier! Don't stop at MCSA and settle, there are bigger and better things out there.

elover_jm

Trailerisf wrote:

garv221 wrote:

I quit my Microsoft path. I am so burned out on Microsoft I could careless about the damn thing. I was reading an Exam Cram book one day in my office for 70-291 and I looked outside and thought WTF I am I doing. I grabbed a beer and my clubs & never looked back. They are absolutely boring to study for, you need ALOT just for a cert and everyone seems to hold them. Its not impressive to me anymore to have any miscrosoft certs, they are so many braindumps out there any dumb **** with a pulse can get MCSE. I will let my experience shine through over that cert.I have the same amount of respect for MCSA as I do A+. If I am going to study, I will make sure my time is spent on an worth while cert.. Ex. Cisco, anything VOIP, (ISC)2, to name a few.

True enough... but think of a clients perspective... If any idiot can get a mcse why can't you?

LOL

TeKniques

jpeezy55 wrote:

I was just on an interview yesterday (did not work out because I am not able to travel much and this job required lots of travel, one example they gave me was that they would tell you on Monday you are going to California for 2 weeks and that's it, you were on a plane tuesday morning...and with me going back to college for the next 2.5 years, it wasn't for me...)

Anyway, the moral of this story, the guy interviewing me is an MCSE. I told him I plan to take Net+ and then 291 to get my MCSA. His next question/statement was this: Do you plan to continue and get the MCSE (I said yes, which I do) and then he said that that he highly recommends it, because that is one of the first things he looks at from applicants, what certs do they hold and are they getting more.

It ended on a good and positive note with them asking me to contact them again in a few months with an updated resume and see if they have any IT Support positions open...The guy told me, "Keep pestering us with resumes and updates, we don't know when we will have the need for a full-time IT staff." and to make sure I am always in their system of resumes and applicants.

Bottom line: some companies, like this one anyway, want certs and the more, the merrier! Don't stop at MCSA and settle, there are bigger and better things out there.

Another reason to not stop is that you are WAY more marketable with an MCSE than an MCSA. I hardly ever see job ads that ask for MCSA, but I see quite a few asking for MCSE. I know it's probably HR jargon, but MCSE is a lot more known IMO.

strauchr

TeKniques wrote:

jpeezy55 wrote:

I was just on an interview yesterday (did not work out because I am not able to travel much and this job required lots of travel, one example they gave me was that they would tell you on Monday you are going to California for 2 weeks and that's it, you were on a plane tuesday morning...and with me going back to college for the next 2.5 years, it wasn't for me...)

Anyway, the moral of this story, the guy interviewing me is an MCSE. I told him I plan to take Net+ and then 291 to get my MCSA. His next question/statement was this: Do you plan to continue and get the MCSE (I said yes, which I do) and then he said that that he highly recommends it, because that is one of the first things he looks at from applicants, what certs do they hold and are they getting more.

It ended on a good and positive note with them asking me to contact them again in a few months with an updated resume and see if they have any IT Support positions open...The guy told me, "Keep pestering us with resumes and updates, we don't know when we will have the need for a full-time IT staff." and to make sure I am always in their system of resumes and applicants.

Bottom line: some companies, like this one anyway, want certs and the more, the merrier! Don't stop at MCSA and settle, there are bigger and better things out there.

Another reason to not stop is that you are WAY more marketable with an MCSE than an MCSA. I hardly ever see job ads that ask for MCSA, but I see quite a few asking for MCSE. I know it's probably HR jargon, but MCSE is a lot more known IMO.

Hence the value of the cert

Danman32

That was my arguement with a training/career development facility. They said most IT jobs require MCSA unless you are going to design a multi-site, mega-multi-host environment.

That may be so, but there are topics covered/tested in MCSE that are not addressed in MCSA that an administrator may likely need to deal with. I have been working with clients supporting their Microsoft installations and repairs, and they felt I should easily pass MCSE exams. But the MCSE exams cover things that I didn't need to work with much, so I learned some things that we all will soon need to know. PKI for example.

Then there are HRs that filter on the cert MCSE whether the job requires it or not.

To me, MCSE says in 4 letters that I know more than what can be said in a few sentences on a resume.

Now I hope I can pass 293. I have been doing poorly on practice exams, getting stumped by the stupidest things. I think I might be burnt out.

12thlevelwarrior

I am really getting burned out on the MS stuff, I am going to get my MCSA:messaging, then work for linux+ and then get back to MS.

eastp

brennonbladin wrote:

I am really getting burned out on the MS stuff, I am going to get my MCSA:messaging.

For me it's the same.
I "only" need to take 2 more AD exams to get my MCSE.
But I can't motivate my self to get started.

I also think that it's better to go for the MCSE and not stop at MCSA.
Since it only takes a few more, and you will benefit from it.
If not for the Cert than at least for the knowledge gained.

Kind regards.
Eastp.

strauchr

brennonbladin wrote:

I am really getting burned out on the MS stuff, I am going to get my MCSA:messaging, then work for linux+ and then get back to MS.

To be honest I don't think the MS specializations are that marketable, especially with just an MCSA. Better off doing it hard and pushing through to MCSE, then its over and done with and your much more marketable.

garv221

Since I stopped studying for my MCSE, my salary has gone up 3 times and I have been promoted twice.

strauchr

garv221 wrote:

Since I stopped studying for my MCSE, my salary has gone up 3 times and I have been promoted twice.

But thats not as a result of not studying that would be a result of circumstance (and possibly hard/smart work). If those opportunities had not come you may be still concerned with your MCSE.

I guess different things work for different people and if you get to where you want to be then thats all that counts.

garv221

strauchr wrote:

garv221 wrote:

Since I stopped studying for my MCSE, my salary has gone up 3 times and I have been promoted twice.

But thats not as a result of not studying that would be a result of circumstance (and possibly hard/smart work). If those opportunities had not come you may be still concerned with your MCSE.

I guess different things work for different people and if you get to where you want to be then thats all that counts.

Thats my point. Those opportunities were not always there. I made them.

mikey_b

My employer has a lot of Wintel stuff kicking around, MCSE can go far in this organization which is why I've changed my plans to MCSE instead of MCSA and CCNA, the Cisco can wait and I can get more money...

jpeezy55

I have just one more (The Beast) to pass for MCSA. After that I think I am going to look into either Security, or most likely Database Administrator Certification. Something to diversify my certs and build my knowledge-base as I go. After that, I do plan to get MCSE and CCNA (at least). And by then, I'm sure there will be 50 new certs out there anyway! We can never win!!!

Not sure what careers may present themselves, so be prepared for whatever may come...

strauchr

jpeezy55 wrote:

I have just one more (The Beast) to pass for MCSA. After that I think I am going to look into either Security, or most likely Database Administrator Certification. Something to diversify my certs and build my knowledge-base as I go. After that, I do plan to get MCSE and CCNA (at least). And by then, I'm sure there will be 50 new certs out there anyway! We can never win!!!

Not sure what careers may present themselves, so be prepared for whatever may come...

I think DBA would be good. Its very overlooked in our infrastructure world yet is very much part of it. Can also pay very well.

I have played with idea of going DBA but more Systems jobs just keep coming my way and keeping me in there.