Robert Half - A Question

adam220891

I'm fairly disappointed at my current position and have been semi-actively seeking employment elsewhere, but there is very little out there right now. Moving isn't an option currently (I actually moved here for this position), but I occasionally get hit up for remote positions on LinkedIn and am contemplating a current offer. I've only ever worked as a regular salary position and so far all these possibilities have been more consultant/contract-to-hire....I've got some questions/concerns for those who've been around the block a few times:

-This position is thru RHT who is offering a contract-to-hire position with RHT. Essentially, I would be a full-time employee of RHT supporting a large VAR with their network security projects (particularly related to 802.1x)
-The position is remote unless a client requests in-person meetings; the pay is roughly 50% higher than my current salary
-I am concerned about work-life balance and how billable hours work. I'm confident more goes into it than the "reular" positions I've been in
-I'm also fairly nervous as this position narrows in on one specific technology for the most part. I've only done one deployment and it's a pretty complicated offering, but after just one interview they were overly convinced I was competent enough
-I've requested additional information regarding escalation paths (I don't want to be in BFE and totally stuck), PTO, etc. I'm awaiting feedback on those questions

I know the pay makes this seem obvious, but I'm skeptical. I could probably rise to the occasion by dumping all my efforts into this niche, but that has its own downsides.

Can anyone relate?

scaredoftests

Contract to hire sucks, because some of these positions have no benefits and the amount of time under contract is 6 months or more. Plus (at least I felt, that I was the only wo(man) on an island with no say in anything). When the contract is up..will they hire you? I hate that. Just my 0.2 cents.

networker050184

Just moved to a new area and thinking about taking a remote contract? Ehhh probably a little more risk than I'd be looking to take on. Especially if you used a significant portion of you savings on the move.

gespenstern

It's 50% more because on a contract you either have no insurance or a very shitty one and no other perks like 401K matching etc. Last time I was on a contract I was paying $1,500/month for a crap of an insurance with insane deductible and out-of-pocket for a family of four and the prices went up since then.

The hourly wage is even higher for short-term contracts, like 3 months or so or even less. I know a few people who make lots of monies (200K+) by doing short-term contracts, but they have a rather rare skill that is currently in high demand (one of them does certain things in Oracle ATG and that's it) and you never know will this situation continue or not.

At least it sounds like you'll be on W-2 with Robert Half so you don't have to bother with filing taxes 4 times a year.

The pay is also higher for contractors because of the risk of staying unemployed without much income if things don't work out.

CtH -- it depends, I have no direct proof, but my assumption always was that many abuse this thing to attract more higher quality candidates. Plenty of stories out there when things didn't work out. Overall this field is full of fraud and one should tread carefully.

I went from full-time to contracting twice, despite having a stay-at-home wife and kids, just because I knew it would put me forward in my career. But in terms of the levels of stress it is sometimes tough or even over the top, so be careful. Not always and not all people can handle this type of uncertainty and challenge.

Also, contract work is typically much more intense compared to full time which is often very laid back.

The last time I went from full time to contract it was for a long-time contract and my hourly wage, if extended for a year, would more than double my salary on full time. So I was in position to put aside some sums to keep me and my family afloat if things went bad.

But I made sure they didn't and here I am, in the end, having an awesome full-time with making very good money which wouldn't be possible if I was stuck at one job for a lifetime having tiny yearly bumps.

Overall, it's much riskier but it pays if you deliver and the stars align.

LeBroke

Holy **** insurance is just insane in the US...

gespenstern

LeBroke wrote: »

Holy **** insurance is just insane in the US...

Well... there are reasons for that but I'm not hijacking the thread, LOL.

adam220891

I moved down almost 1.5 years ago to a tire-fire of an organization. I'm continuing to learn and enjoy some of the perks of the job (like flexibility of being in the office), but it's so dysfunctional how we operate. The infrastructure team consists of systems/network/etc most of which work at a small satellite office. The corporate HQ has an applications deployment team, macOS specialists, and a help desk. There's no synergy between the departments and the bug-tracking software we use for a ticketing system doesn't have flexibility for proper escalation and tracking. Since no one else is allowed to patch cables and because the labeling is so bad, I'm routinely toning out cables and struggling to figure out what's going on. Even found several dozen runs directly into switches. There's a lot more to it than this but it's been a frustrating go, which is why I'm open to other options.

With that said, I'm not a fan of C2H either. I understand the insurance and tax implications and that concerns me. A salaried position with RHT would be considerably more stable but still not quiet at the level of traditional employment. A lot of the positions around here are DoD-based and you are a full-time employee for a defense contracting firm, which seems to be a similar setup with RHT and the VAR.

At any rate, I can stick it out but despite my best efforts to try and push for proper delegation of duties and education of the staff, I find myself regressing when it comes to the amount of low-level work I'm doing and it's painful. Now that we are bumping up against some critical timelines, it's even worse when losing an entire day for tasks I've always seen done by facilities, desktop, interns, etc. We're a publicly traded organization with over 1,000 users so it's pretty trying at times having to go between buildings because an IP phone won't turn on.

jwdk19

My position is similiar to what you are describing. I am in a manufacturing environment as a sys analyst. Can go from troubleshooting an issue that has an entire production line down (hence losing money) to moving toning out cabling that goes to God knows where because the infrastructure was horribly managed for 15+ years lol

It can be demoralizing. Especially when you are the only IT guy for physically at the location. Downtime/slow time? Yea that doesnt exist lol

Keep your head up brother, we shall overcome! 😊 i am hoping to training into infosec in the next few months.

MeanDrunkR2D2

LeBroke wrote: »

Holy **** insurance is just insane in the US...

Yes... Yes it is. I hit my out of pocket this year in January (which was $6000) and my plan itself costs $22,000 per year, most of which is subsidized by my employer. My part that I pay out of my paychecks will total up to another $8k. However, with my son needing special therapies and specialists as well as my own surgery from tearing my rotator cuff and bicep the billed amount so far this year that has been paid out has cost insurance about 110,000 so far this year. And that's the discounted rate, not what they'd charge someone without insurance.

NavyMooseCCNA

Given how expensive health insurance is and how high the deductibles are, I would go for higher pay and not even bother with health insurance and pay the "penalty".

adam220891

Some of the experience was good because I sort of skipped a few steps on my way to being a network engineer. For example, tearing apart a couple IDFs, picking out cables and cable management, and putting in new switches and moving to 10 Gbps routed uplinks was positive, even if it involved some 20 hour days. But, it's frustrating because most of the department is remote and they don't realize the level of work and effort involved with some of these tasks. I also tend to get a lot more involvement because people would rather work with someone they can interact in person vs. the remote guys which are difficult to reach and slow to respond. I have put a lot into diagramming/documenting/ASA cleanup, as well as ISE and now a PAN migration, but it's difficult to get ahead when we don't change the root issues (divvying up clear lines of responsibility, providing playbooks/SoPs for common issues, etc.). It could be a great work environment if we got rid of some of the toxic air in the room but it's a long road ahead.

gespenstern

NavyMooseCCNA wrote: »

not even bother with health insurance and pay the "penalty".

Decided the same way. Shopping for medical services isn't too complicated, just use whatever online search engine and make calls. Surprisingly, if you pay upfront in cash, many services cost you much less compared to even so-called "negotiated" prices insurance is supposed to negotiate on your behalf. Of course, there would be some that just don't know how much this or that procedure costs and won't be willing to accept any upfront bargains so they can present you with exorbitant bills after the service, just skip them.

The only catch is a major injury and having to deal with a hospital.

Also, I believe, thanks to Mr. Trump, you don't have to pay the penalty now. I didn't pay based on something introduced by Trump admin and IRS didn't complain.

But again, it's a risk so I don't recommend it, but if one feels it's worth it -- my experience was positive.

paul78

adam220891 wrote: »

.... I have put a lot into diagramming/documenting/ASA cleanup, as well as ISE and now a PAN migration, but it's difficult to get ahead when we don't change the root issues (divvying up clear lines of responsibility, providing playbooks/SoPs for common issues, etc.). It could be a great work environment if we got rid of some of the toxic air in the room but it's a long road ahead.

I don't know much about RHT but I understand that they don't always have the best reputation. My only interaction with Robert Half is with their Protiviti business which is a decent security/risk business and the people that I know there seem to be very happy and very competent.

Have you considered a different approach instead of joining RHT and discussed your concerns with your management? It sounds more like you may have an opportunity for some growth if you can take the lead to fix some of these problems. I have always been more of the mindset to see these types of problems as opportunities to demonstrate leadership and make it better instead of looking for a new job.

adam220891

paul78 wrote: »

I don't know much about RHT but I understand that they don't always have the best reputation. My only interaction with Robert Half is with their Protiviti business which is a decent security/risk business and the people that I know there seem to be very happy and very competent.

Have you considered a different approach instead of joining RHT and discussed your concerns with your management? It sounds more like you may have an opportunity for some growth if you can take the lead to fix some of these problems. I have always been more of the mindset to see these types of problems as opportunities to demonstrate leadership and make it better instead of looking for a new job.

I put a lot of investment into this actually and met with the director of IS several times. We discussed better communication and held a meeting for all of the individual departments of IS which most agreed was productive. That was once. There was some frustrating stuff with the remote director asking if communication between departments in different buildings was an issue (they are within walking distance). I spoke up and indicated that the real issue was communication with the remote guys, not people sitting a few minutes walk apart.

I have an opening for a more junior person to help me out and even posted here, but it's still unfilled. We're getting guys with minimal knowledge wanting $60k+ and we can't justify it for their skill sets. My manager indicates my performance far exceeds his expectations and is working on an adjustment, but it's been months and nothing yet. I also am frustrated because while I was busy with assisting with Internet re-routing and moving an entire office and 1,000 users moving around, I was led to believe a big migration project was being worked on. I've been reintroduced and can see it's less than 1% completed. I'm not sure what my peer is doing other than causing me to lose a few hairs.

If we could work through all this it would be great, but I feel like I have nothing left to give unless I find a second wind somehow.

paul78

adam220891 wrote: »

If we could work through all this it would be great, but I feel like I have nothing left to give unless I find a second wind somehow.

From your descriptions, it does sound like you have done all the right things and you've put some thought into this. Sometimes, company culture and inertia simply cannot move without some drastic event or shake-up. In that scenario, you may just have to move on.

Ultimately, life's short and if you are not satisfied with where you are, making a change sounds like a good idea. Hopefully you get your questions answered from RHT and it's an opportunity for you to move on.

Node Man

All my jobs have been contract to perm. Ive gotten benefits and 401 as a contractor. A good agency will offer benefits. I would do remote contract to perm for 50% more. I would also expect to work about 20% more than I am on the books for (a 50 hour week to get paid for 40 hours).

Thats just me of course.

TechGromit

gespenstern wrote: »

It's 50% more because on a contract you either have no insurance or a very shitty one and no other perks like 401K matching etc. Last time I was on a contract I was paying $1,500/month for a crap of an insurance with insane deductible and out-of-pocket for a family of four and the prices went up since then.

Yea, you need to think hard and long about taking a contract position, employers typically pay 80% of your health insurance premium, when I got laid off in 2013, my Cobra was $9,000 a year to keep my good existing health insurance coverage for me and my the Wife. Premiums are up at least 15% since then, so you talking over 10k for the same coverage now. If you do decide to take the contract route, make sure you get Cobra coverage and make sure your 50% raise more than covers it, Yes it's expensive, but the insurance these staffing agencies sell you is pretty much worthless. I read one story where the guy paid the outrageous premiums Teksystem wanted and when he got sick, he found excisions in the plan didn't cover his condition.

NavyMooseCCNA wrote: »

Given how expensive health insurance is and how high the deductibles are, I would go for higher pay and not even bother with health insurance and pay the "penalty".

Some people pay the odds and often come out ahead if they are young and healthy. But if you unlucky, having a major health issue without health insurance is often a death sentence. Sure the hospital will "stabilize" you and send you home, but no doctor/hospital is going to give you the 200k operation you need to stay alive for free.

NetworkingStudent

adam220891 wrote: »

I'm fairly disappointed at my current position and have been semi-actively seeking employment elsewhere, but there is very little out there right now. Moving isn't an option currently (I actually moved here for this position), but I occasionally get hit up for remote positions on LinkedIn and am contemplating a current offer. I've only ever worked as a regular salary position and so far all these possibilities have been more consultant/contract-to-hire....I've got some questions/concerns for those who've been around the block a few times:

-This position is thru RHT who is offering a contract-to-hire position with RHT. Essentially, I would be a full-time employee of RHT supporting a large VAR with their network security projects (particularly related to 802.1x)
-The position is remote unless a client requests in-person meetings; the pay is roughly 50% higher than my current salary
-I am concerned about work-life balance and how billable hours work. I'm confident more goes into it than the "reular" positions I've been in
-I'm also fairly nervous as this position narrows in on one specific technology for the most part. I've only done one deployment and it's a pretty complicated offering, but after just one interview they were overly convinced I was competent enough
-I've requested additional information regarding escalation paths (I don't want to be in BFE and totally stuck), PTO, etc. I'm awaiting feedback on those questions

I know the pay makes this seem obvious, but I'm skeptical. I could probably rise to the occasion by dumping all my efforts into this niche, but that has its own downsides.

Can anyone relate?

I have done roughly 4 contracts so far, and this was becasue I needed the money.

I did one CTH job, and this was becasuie I was just starting out in IT.

To answer your questions on benefits:

PTO = Paid Time Off - Most temp agencies will allow you to have time off, but you will NOT get paid for it. Also,you will not get paid for holidays.

Now you can earn holiday pay, and maybe(THIS IS A BIG MAYBE) PTO hours, but you have have to work a ton of hours to earn holiday pay.

Healthcare and contracting:
I havehad more than one recuiter tell them that their healthcare isn't that good. Infact, several recuiters have told me that I should go with another healthcare provider. When I have been on contracts the healthcare options have never been that great. I think Walmart has better health care options.


Other things to consider:

When do you convert to a Full time employee?

You make %50 higher than your current salary, what do you make once you turn into a full time employee?



Remember to SLOW Down:
The recuiter will try to push you to make a quick decision, but you need to give this some deep thought.

Kyrak

Your current situation sounds horrible to me so I think the question is leave for this position now, or keep looking for something better and leave later. I would lean toward taking this position, socking aside the 50% difference for an emergency fund in case it goes sideways, and then play it by ear with the new position. The way I look at it is worst case, you can start looking right away if you hate the new gig and drop it from your resume if you find something quick enough. Best case, it will be a much better situation and you will make a lot more $$. Put another way, you could work at this for 8 months, quit and take a 4 month vacation and be in exactly the same financial position as where you are now(assuming you could find something else after that 4 months). As always YMMV especially if you have a family to support and need insurance for them etc, baby on the way etc etc.

adam220891

Heard back from RHT:

They want me to do some small project remote work at $60ish per hour. I would not quit my current role while pursuing this (their suggestion).

If it goes well, they would like to convert to full time as a Salaried Professional at a higher rate that offers "paid time off, better benefits, and paid bench time"

I need to call to get clarification but that's what the email said (I missed their call before the follow up email).

It may be a good middle ground...

I'd rather salvage my current situation which allows for 22 days PTO, flexible hours/in-office time, and some other perks. I would need to work through the issues discussed and quiet frankly work on an increase (which has been discussed).

Not sure what to do yet but I appreciate the food for thought on things I had not previously considered...

Thanks