Go over manager's head?

12thlevelwarrior

Everyone,

Most everyone on my team wants to go above my manager's head and present a document stating what he is doing wrong and then everyone sign it. I am hesitant about going with the crowd. Has anyone been in this position before? Can anyone offer hindsight wisdom?? Comments welcome. Not really looking for anything specific here, just want to talk about it.

Basically, my team thinks our manager sucks, they have tried to go to his manager, but now they are going above the director's head (my manager's boss) to pretty much the second in command in the whole company. I can understand their reasoning, but I am torn on what to do.

Webmaster

I don't know the exact situation, so it's hard to say anything about it, but quite frankly, it sounds like a bad idea. What sounds like a better idea is approach the manager himself. If he is reluctant to hear any critics you guys could still consider plan B.

Managers are like parents, you don't get to pick them.

mikej412

brennonbladin wrote:

Has anyone been in this position before? Can anyone offer hindsight wisdom?? Comments welcome.

Yes.... I believe the book about it was Mutinity on the Bounty.

brennonbladin wrote:

Basically, my team thinks our manager sucks, they have tried to go to his manager, but now they are going above the director's head (my manager's boss) to pretty much the second in command in the whole company.

Hum.... **** off a bunch of managers doesn't sound like a good idea.

Find a new job, rather than get involved -- since it sounds like those other guys probably already are looking, or could be real soon now.

holysheetman

Just watch your ass and make sure this doesn't have the ability to blow up in you and your co-workers faces. Have some sort of a backup plan, if possible. (that is in case you get fired)

As long as the vote is unanimous, I don't see what advantage the manager has in this situation. The outcome will most definitely be an employee review with his boss and then from there... politics will likely play a role in this, as it most always does... but depends on how friendly he is with his bosses and depends on their personalities.. depends on a lot of things... Good luck with that.

Phil

12thlevelwarrior

yeah, i am leaning towards not going along with it. he has always treated me with respect. there is one sort of leader of the rebellion which spearheaded the initial uprising to my manager's boss. that attempt was about a year ago and only contained a two guys from the team. recently pretty much everyone except me has "agreed" to go forward, which will most likely happen in the next month. i am working for an end of the year pay adjustment and it looks promising, i don't want to screw that up. people rarely get fired where i work, we have a bunch of people that are stumps on a log, but they NEVER get fired. i don't think he would get fired from people going forward. then going forward is for nothing and things would only be worse. my take is if you hate it enough to try to get your boss fired year after year, just find another job.

TechJunky

I prefer to create bridges not burn them...

moss12

dude is hard enough to get into IT work , you very lucky to get the work who cares about your work mates respect the manager and do your work

12thlevelwarrior

good advice guys, your words just reinforce my leaning to not going along with the group. one of my really good friends has been an HR manager for a long time and i always call him for advice. he recommends not going forward and called the guys at my work "crybabies". LOL, thanks guys, i will resist the "mob" flow and stand alone.

strauchr

What do you think of your current manager? If you think he is doing a good job or doing ok with some problems then perhaps explain to managers above him. There is probably a reason he in that position and managers are very reluctant to get rid of someone unless they are really bad. There may be some appreciation for someone who could explain the good and bad points to higher up management.

Don't join the crowd though. From the sounds of what you explained it is a politically motived attack by someone to get his management position. He rallies a couple of people around him and says if I get manager you can do this or that and so they join him. Soon it becomes a culture of the department and everyone joins (including you who is thinking about it) I have seen it happen before and joined the 'wrong' crowd once only to get shafted after realising my mistake and trying to correct it - it was too late.

Managers are going to make mistakes and a good team player will help a manager minimize the damage when mistake are made. This will be highly regarded by not only your manager but also by upper management and they are the people you are really trying to please, not the whinging co workers.

Webmaster

strauchr wrote:

Managers are going to make mistakes and a good team player will help a manager minimize the damage when mistake are made. This will be highly regarded by not only your manager but also by upper management and they are the people you are really trying to please, not the whining co workers.

Well said, and I entirely agree.

garv221

insubordination too? I saw a post for a guy looking for a job, if you go through with this let him know your position will be open http://www.techexams.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=14948

I'm a IT Director and if someone did/thought what your talking, they would be gone ASAP, no questions asked. Chances are you are an AT WILL employee, your replaceable and it doesn't take much if anything to rub you out. Don't do it, lead not follow.

Danman32

I also agree with the consensus and not go with the crowd.

I have been learning about authority in my church and it does have real-world merit. Unless the situation is immoral, we should follow the instructions of the authority over us even if it is the wrong choice. We can bring up our concerns to our leaders, but the decision should always be theirs. In any case, treat them with respect based on their position, even if their actions don't deserve it. If they tell you to do something that is immoral, decline, but still treat them with respect as you decline.

I observed this very thing on the Apprentic when it first started out. The project leader's head of the losing team was always on the chopping block unless he could show that he was hindered by the actions by those below him beyond his control. From the perspective of those below him, if they did what he told them to do, despite their voiced concerns, it was his fault they failed, not theirs. If they did their own thing, then they could be considered the problem and fired.

On top of this, considering that the manager's manager has decided not to do anything, going higher won't help but may get you in trouble instead. If the manager's leadership is that bad, he will be found out eventually and dealt with.

strauchr

Webmaster wrote:

strauchr wrote:

Managers are going to make mistakes and a good team player will help a manager minimize the damage when mistake are made. This will be highly regarded by not only your manager but also by upper management and they are the people you are really trying to please, not the whining co workers.

Well said, and I entirely agree.

Cheers Johan

JDMurray

If the manager is actually doing something illegal then you should take immediate action to protect yourself from any possible complicity. If the manager is only guilty of bad management, how you handle it will be determined by the policies and politics of the company.

When I have been in such "bad manger" situations, the people above my manager already knew that s/he was a bad manager, but did nothing about it for a variety of reasons. If a group of subordinates presented a grievance to upper management, those people where usually ignored, transferred, or soon let go from the company. The logic being that it's easier to hire several grunts than an experienced (if very bad) manager. Most people--including myself--usually just found another job, and after which we wondered why we took so long to do so.

jpeezy55

I would even take it a step farther and go to the highest guy you can get to, or at least the one who may decide to do some firings and let him know (without going into detail of what you know) that you understand there is something going on between the workers and the manager, and that you are not involved in it. Let them know you do not want to be stuck in the middle of whatever is coming.

Chances are your name may get mentioned by one of them figuring if they go down, they take as many with them as possible. If the people in charge know you are not involved, odds are they won't bring the hammer down on you. They may even assume you are involved with it anyway. I always found that when I had a problem or heard a rumor, I went straight to my boss and asked him directly about it. 99% of the time, it was mis-information I was hearing. You need to convey this message directly to them if you want to stay there. Who knows, you may even wind up moving up in rank if/when they get fired...

I know a lot of you will feel differently and say that he should not say a word, but this is just my opinion. It's worked for me in the past. Let the bosses know where you stand if you want to keep standing.

12thlevelwarrior

Thanks for the comments, my plan of action will be to exclude myself from the disgruntled group, then once I hear the uprising process has begun communicate to management that I want them to know I am not included in the process. Thanks again for all the great advice. From the beginning my gut told me not to participate. I have always been loyal to every manager I have had in my entire career and I will continue to do so...

Thanks!

keenon

i would suggest everyone in the group of PO'd employees jump ship at the same time.. i would suggest leaving too as you may learn of what they felt soon enough

we have a thought here. if we have a bad manager we kick bricks out at every passing.. sooner or later the building will fall