Can Someone Help me Compare 2 Resumes

johnIT

I'm thinking of switching up the job search again. My last resume has gotten me some results but it has not led me to closing on that great job. I'm getting about 1-2 phone interviews a week with this resume. But I'd like to highlight more of my projects outside of professional work exp and to show a more rounded and more experienced person overall. I've heard that old model of resumes is going out or already out the door, so I quickly wrote up this one, is it better?

I feel like using the new resume I can highlight more of my projects and show more info at first glance but the old one is short and to the point. I should also say that I'm looking for the next step up in my career. A position as either a sales engineer or Systems admin role at larger big name brand company. I've gotten to third rounds of interviews using the old resume, will the new one help me close the deal? Thoughts?

Infosec_Sam

I think the new one is much more pleasant to look at! I like the cleanliness of the sans-serif font, plus the white space does a great job of directing your eyes to what's important. I think it's definitely worth a shot to send that one out and see how it goes. If anything, you can give it a shot for a month or two and then compare to the old one. 

mikey88

You technically have you tailor your resume to a particular job you are applying for. All those bullet points and a keyword mill may not be relevant to a position you are applying for. 

Generally, I summarize all my previous positions and only highlight important information and accomplishments with bullet points. I also got rid of the "skills" section as I realized employers don't care about that. They care how you applied these skills in a recent position.

johnIT

mikey88 said:

You technically have you tailor your resume to a particular job you are applying for. All those bullet points and a keyword mill may not be relevant to a position you are applying for. 

Generally, I summarize all my previous positions and only highlight important information and accomplishments with bullet points. I also got rid of the "skills" section as I realized employers don't care about that. They care how you applied these skills in a recent position.

Yeah, unfortunately a lot of my skills I've had to learn on my own as the organizations I am apart of do not utilize anything really marketable. Or if so, they ask me, "How do I do xxx and what software does it?" In all my jobs that I've held it was up to me to figure it out. I've never really had an IT team full of professionals to help or manage.

So the homelabs I sell up and I mention that I learn those to see if my employers could benefit. Sometimes if I feel that they are really beneficial I will bring it up to my boss or even the board of directors, since they are pretty approachable, but often the ideas are too grandiose for these companies to implement and I am forced to move on to other projects or even other companies

johnIT

Infosec_Sam said:

I think the new one is much more pleasant to look at! I like the cleanliness of the sans-serif font, plus the white space does a great job of directing your eyes to what's important. I think it's definitely worth a shot to send that one out and see how it goes. If anything, you can give it a shot for a month or two and then compare to the old one. 

Thanks. That's what I was going for. I think it tells a better story of myself as a person and what I do outside of work. Maybe even gives me more experience and shows potential employers that I'm willing to learn and can interact with everyone in the company. Since I'm often told I'm not a good fit and don't have enough exp, I wanted to highlight those two traits. Does my old resume feel like I lack experience in certain things? 

Infosec_Sam

I don't really think there's any hint of inexperience on your first resume, but it's not laid out in a way that makes it easy for me to see what areas/technologies you're more skilled in. On the second resume, it's clear to me not only what you're more skilled in, but what skills you value over others based on where they're ranked.

As a general tip, I would try to avoid overuse of phrases like "helped do this" or "collaborated with XY to do that." If you're part of a team to implement a product or administered that system, you can just list that you implemented that product or administered that system. In an interview, you can clarify that you were part of a team and your primary responsibility was [X].

Honestly if you're getting to interviews, then I don't think your resume is your problem. Clearly the hiring manager was impressed enough to bring you in for an interview, so you might want to work on how you present yourself  in that environment. Maybe work on a canned answer to the top 10-20 IT interview questions, or practice being more confident when you're asked a question you don't know the answer to.

Disclaimer: I'm just shooting from the hip here on advice, so it may or may not apply to your situation. Feel free to pick and choose which pieces of advice you think are valuable! And if you have any other questions, please don't hesitate to ask!

johnIT

Infosec_Sam said:

I don't really think there's any hint of inexperience on your first resume, but it's not laid out in a way that makes it easy for me to see what areas/technologies you're more skilled in. On the second resume, it's clear to me not only what you're more skilled in, but what skills you value over others based on where they're ranked.

As a general tip, I would try to avoid overuse of phrases like "helped do this" or "collaborated with XY to do that." If you're part of a team to implement a product or administered that system, you can just list that you implemented that product or administered that system. In an interview, you can clarify that you were part of a team and your primary responsibility was [X].

Honestly if you're getting to interviews, then I don't think your resume is your problem. Clearly the hiring manager was impressed enough to bring you in for an interview, so you might want to work on how you present yourself  in that environment. Maybe work on a canned answer to the top 10-20 IT interview questions, or practice being more confident when you're asked a question you don't know the answer to.

Disclaimer: I'm just shooting from the hip here on advice, so it may or may not apply to your situation. Feel free to pick and choose which pieces of advice you think are valuable! And if you have any other questions, please don't hesitate to ask!

No worries Thanks for the advice. So it must be my interviewing then...Maybe I'm throwing people off and acting like I'm inexperienced in interviews. I sometimes have trouble talking to very techy people b/c I hate using technical terminology and always get mixed up on them. Other things I think I have working against me: 

1. Looks, voice, facial disability- I was born w/a cleft palate. That might throw people off when I sit down with them. I don't think of it as a disability and it doesn't seem to affect my chances whether I tell people about it or not. I also do not shave my beard off for interviews b/c otherwise I look like a teenager. 

2. Non-profit is part of an organization that's going through a nationwide scandal and vendors refusing to work w/us since we have no $$$. 

3. Nerves, not showing excitement, trouble showing emotion- This is genetic from my mom's side. I have trouble showing emotion or acting excited/emotional and I have to try really hard to smile properly on top of my 'disability'. This usually happens when meeting new people/teams in the first few minutes but then I'm fine after a few mins. With interviews however, it gets turned way up b/c I know they are testing me and have to approve of me joining them for five + years right then and there. With random people if they don't like me I can just ditch them easily.   

Infosec_Sam

The nerves are probably what have the biggest impact in the interview - at least, they were for me. I can tell you what helped me the most was shifting my mindset from "they're testing me and I need them to like me" to more of a "let's see if this is a match." When I interviewed for my current job at Infosec, I was super nervous (I hope @Meggo couldn't tell!) but I framed it as a mutual evaluation, which helped me stay level-headed and confident. When the interview was over, I knew that if I got rejected, it was because it wasn't the right match, not because I wasn't good enough.

I'd also recommend researching the heck out of the company before your interview. Try to get familiar with how they make money, how they define success, and how you fit into that. In an IT role, that could be as easy as "I enable the sales team to make sales" or "I make the process more efficient," but it's good to show that you've invested time into their organization before even meeting them. Plus, it will give you some chances to make small talk about the business to help you settle in.

johnIT

Infosec_Sam said:

The nerves are probably what have the biggest impact in the interview - at least, they were for me. I can tell you what helped me the most was shifting my mindset from "they're testing me and I need them to like me" to more of a "let's see if this is a match." When I interviewed for my current job at Infosec, I was super nervous (I hope @Meggo couldn't tell!) but I framed it as a mutual evaluation, which helped me stay level-headed and confident. When the interview was over, I knew that if I got rejected, it was because it wasn't the right match, not because I wasn't good enough.

I'd also recommend researching the heck out of the company before your interview. Try to get familiar with how they make money, how they define success, and how you fit into that. In an IT role, that could be as easy as "I enable the sales team to make sales" or "I make the process more efficient," but it's good to show that you've invested time into their organization before even meeting them. Plus, it will give you some chances to make small talk about the business to help you settle in.

Honestly I get both. Lots of email rejections tell me my experience wasn't what they were looking for and others saying that I wasn't the right match. I even ask for feedback in interviews and they claim there's no problems... So I feel a lot of it is that right fit which I've never really been very good at. Part of the reason why I'm in IT is so I wouldn't have to be good at that type of stuff!

Not being the right match is almost worst than not being experienced enough. At least with experience you can work on it. There's not much you can do if people don't like you or worse, they don't see you fitting into a company culture after one meeting. How bad at social skills am I if that's the case? 

Infosec_Sam

Well, job hunts are pretty universally challenging, but I think you're definitely on the right path with your resume and with the reflection you've been doing. Plus, the more you interview, the better you'll get at it, so it's totally worth it to stick it out!

yoba222

If you're getting phone calls, the resume is fine and the phone call probably needs work. As for the emotions, have you considered taking acting lessons? You don't have to end up exactly like your parents if you don't want. You're in control of you, ya know? For the low budget route, check out Toastmasters.

Danielm7

Agree with all the earlier points. If you "hate using technical terminology" that's surely going to be a problem with a lot of technical people. Regular business folks might appreciate that you can explain complicated things in a non-technical manner. But if want a technical answer that shows you know what you're talking about and you can't give that it's definitely going to count against you. 

A few points on the resume too. I know you trying to bold different industries, but if your non-profit is part of a national scandal and you're not specifically targeting non-profits I wouldn't really want to highlight that. I don't think many people in most businesses care about that. 

Also, the highlighting of the 10+ years. It sticks out right away, which is clearly your goal, but when a number of those years are for a local, family-owned auto shop, I tend to read that as "fixed the family computer" and discount it for total experience. I could be totally wrong, but it comes off as trying to inflate the experience so you can say 10+ years. 

kaiju

@johnIT check your messages. I sent you a suggested edit of the 2nd resume.

johnIT

yoba222 said:

If you're getting phone calls, the resume is fine and the phone call probably needs work. As for the emotions, have you considered taking acting lessons? You don't have to end up exactly like your parents if you don't want. You're in control of you, ya know? For the low budget route, check out Toastmasters.

Yup I have. Good thing I'm a stone's throw away from the comedy center of the world in NYC. I'm going for improv shortly since I've gotten that advice from others as well. 

johnIT

Danielm7 said:

Agree with all the earlier points. If you "hate using technical terminology" that's surely going to be a problem with a lot of technical people. Regular business folks might appreciate that you can explain complicated things in a non-technical manner. But if want a technical answer that shows you know what you're talking about and you can't give that it's definitely going to count against you. 

Do you have any suggestions on how to get over this? I've never really worked with very techy people like programmers or the like. I've just been apart of small businesses and at the non-profit I only have an IT Manager who doesn't use that type of terminology either. 

Danielm7

Do you not know or understand the terms? Do you have examples of tech things people say that you don't use?

johnIT

Danielm7 said:

Do you not know or understand the terms? Do you have examples of tech things people say that you don't use?

I'll give you an example of one horrible experience I had w/an interview. It was one of those drill you on everything interrogations. I remember one of the questions, was, how would you build a gaming computer. I'm not a big gamer and none of my clients/staff are either. I never had to do that before. They also asked some questions about where certain folders were in certain directories. How would you write a powershell script for xyz. But give me a computer and a search engine and I'll have it done in five minutes.

I just failed a job interview for a junior level sales engineer role that was a 50 question security test that nobody told me about previously. I knew like maybe five of them off the top of my head and looked up the rest on the internet. Put me in front of a computer and I can do/figure out most situations. Ask to do things in an interview off the top of my head and I blank out. 

Maybe when these sorts of questions come up, should I say, get me a computer and I'll show you how I'd arrive at the solution? 

Infosec_Sam

johnIT said:

Maybe when these sorts of questions come up, should I say, get me a computer and I'll show you how I'd arrive at the solution? 

That's the right idea, yeah. I don't really think the hiring manager expects you to know every answer off the top of your head, but they are interested in how you solve problems and come to solutions. What I've found to work in the past when I get a question I don't know the answer to is just to start talking about what I do know about the topic, and try to turn the question into a discussion.

Example: In one of my interviews I was asked "What's the difference between gen 2 and gen 3 firewalls?" I had no idea that firewalls even had generations, but I remembered that Palo Alto markets their firewalls as "next generation," and that they advertise how they can do packet inspection, so I figured gen 3 firewalls could apply policies above the standard port/protocol level. So I basically just told him that, and it was pretty close to the right answer. I didn't really try to prove that I know everything, but I do want to demonstrate my ability to use what I know to make an educated guess.

Danielm7

johnIT said:

Maybe when these sorts of questions come up, should I say, get me a computer and I'll show you how I'd arrive at the solution? 

Yes and no. Not knowing the details of something but knowing how to get those details is a reasonable answer for lots of things. Not having any clue or having heard of what they're talking about at all and just saying "I'll just google everything you say" isn't reasonable either. 

If they asked you how to write a certain powershell script and you know some, but not how to do that exact thing. You could say, well I know how to do X and Y in powershell, you're talking about Z which I'm not as familiar with but here is what I'd do to try to figure it out. That would be great. If you said, "I don't know powershell but I can probably just google the answer" , not so much. 

Some of those examples are odd, like why would they care how to build a gaming computer? Was it a custom computer shop or something? Maybe they were just trying to see how you'd handle something you don't know or didn't prep for. Things like that... OK, well gaming is pretty video intensive, I don't know the current models of video cards but I'd start by looking into that, etc. 

All of us look stuff up, not everything, but lots of things. If you're blanking in the interviews you might just be stressed, or you really just might not have the knowledge they're expecting ether and maybe just applying to jobs that aren't  good fit?