First job in tech still elusive

jasper_zanjani

Hey guys, I've been on this forum for about half a year since deciding to get into the tech industry. Since I made the commitment, I have collected more than half a dozen technical certifications, from CompTIA A+ to a Python cert to, most recently, AWS cloud. But I have yet to break into my first sysadmin job, and even for help desk positions I am being told I don't have enough experience. I am getting frustrated and desperate. Earlier today I read an article about how unemployment is at a 50-year low. That's when you start thinking, is there something wrong with me?

I thought I would be able to study my way into a job by using certifications to validate my knowledge, but as my certs pile up I am beginning to believe that is a pipe dream. Does anyone have any helpful advice?

iBrokeIT

Unfortunately there is a perceived gap between paper/academic knowledge and demonstrated experience which will get you a job.

I would look into projects, volunteering and working with recruiters as a way to break into the industry. Good luck!

TheFORCE

@jasper_zanjani contract positions are perfect roles to gain experience.  Try to aim for those type of roles. Gain some experience and move on afterwards. 

advanex1

Some hard truth/advice:

1. Your linkedin profile needs work and you need to network with those companies you're looking at or would like to work for. So contact the recruiters, send them a note, and connect on linkedin. You have yourself labeled as, "Certified Cloud Infrastructure Engineer, Systems Administrator, and Python Developer". But you're not. You're a systems administrator. I don't see anything other than an AWS certification that leads me to believe you know anything about the cloud let alone are an engineer. I think that term is highly overused. 

2. Where's your resume? If so, post it so we can take a look. All I see for experience in the IT world is the following:

- Active Directory group policy enforcement
- Remote PowerShell administration of Linux VMs in Hyper-V
- Python and shell scripts to automate tasks

That's not going to cut it. What do you mean by group policy enforcement? Group policies are enforced on their own after configuration. You offer no details/insight into what you're doing. What are you doing with powershell for the VMs? Are you just typing, "New-VM" with the appropriate parameter sets? Where is your github, stack overflow, or your portfolio showing proof of concept of your scripts?

3. Get some endorsements of your current work on your linkedin page.

4. What big projects have you been a part of?

5. Are you ACTUALLY a systems administrator? Are you doing more help desk level tasks than systems administration? It's okay if you are! Just put that stuff down! If you're not an actual systems administrator (we can figure that out pretty quickly on the windows side) then start trying to get those Help Desk level jobs and move up! That's how most of the work force does it.

You've got to take a look at how you're presenting yourself and right now from a hiring perspective I'm not impressed. I'm not trying to be mean - I'm trying to be honest and hopefully we can get you on a path that makes sense. It's too easy to jump into IT from something else and catch your hair on fire with a bunch of different certifications but not really understanding the process or how to fully utilize them or that knowledge. Lets get back to the basics. I'll look for your reply.

Johnhe0414

Try entry level positions with a city, county, or special district (water/power). Try finding them in https://www.governmentjobs.com/  filter with: IT and Computers.

LonerVamp

Jumping in directly to systems administrator can be a bit tricky and requires some luck or networking. There will likely always be someone with just a tad more experience than you. That said, the first year is the hardest to acquire and may require really pursuing a less-than-ideal job to start. Few people land their dream jobs with 0 experience.

Have you spoken to any local recruiting firms? Avoid the *big* national ones that wear suits every day; they will treat you like garbage since you don't have experience, and it's a huge bummer when they do that. Find local tech/IT recruiters in your area. Large national ones are ok if they don't wear ties every day. But honestly, the local smaller shops will likely value you more. Even if they have nothing for you, ask them for pointers, interview tips, what weaknesses can you work on, etc. Go to lunch with them and get some feedback. Maybe your demeanor has been off or something.

On your LinkedIn, it looks like you already have a tech job as a Systems Administrator. If that's sort of a fluff entry, are you putting that on your resume? Are you being asked about it in interviews? It might seem a little disingenuous (at best) if that entry is misrepresenting a little bit. It's OK to have 0 job experience. You will have to compensate for that with knowledge gained through study based on the job descriptions and how you can apply your cert knowledge to those open jobs.

Just be sure to not be too presumptuous. There are times it can be off-putting when someone tries to tell a hiring manager how to do something when they haven't actually done it before. Be sincere, humble, and eager to learn/work. Your studies have positioned you to pick things up very fast and understand a good number of facets about IT in an enterprise. Given a year to build experience, you should be positioned well for success.

jasper_zanjani

advanex1 said:

Let me get this straight. I post a discussion about how I can't get my first job in tech because I have no experience... and your response is you're not impressed with my experience? You did catch the word "first" right?

Thanks for looking me up on LinkedIn, I'm actually rather proud of my profile. I am certainly certified in all those technologies, you have to scroll down a bit further to see, and I have provided links to validate all my certs. As for my headline, that is marketing. Think of it as me speaking it into existence. And don't take the experience I put in my "current position" too seriously, I've actually been unemployed for almost two years.

You said it was easy to move into IT, I don't agree. My impression is that the people hiring for IT positions have no patience whatsoever for someone new to the field and value experience uber alles. Guys spend years, decades in the same position, and that is basically the only thing that matters. One guy I know has been an Active Directory Engineer for 16 years and his LinkedIn has nary a cert in sight. Everyone I talk to says I don't have the experience.. but I do have knowledge, core skills, a winning attitude, and the capacity to learn. I wish these things were valued more. But as your post confirms, at least by people in infrastructure, they are not.

jasper_zanjani

LonerVamp said:

Have you spoken to any local recruiting firms?

Agencies have been pretty aggressive about finding me, especially over the past summer! I was actually pleasantly surprised how many companies were hitting me up to submit me for positions, although it has slowed down considerably over the past several weeks, and anyway nothing ever came of those agencies, except for a lot of phone screenings and a few in-person interviews.

jasper_zanjani

LonerVamp said:

On your LinkedIn, it looks like you already have a tech job as a Systems Administrator. If that's sort of a fluff entry, are you putting that on your resume? Are you being asked about it in interviews?

Yeah it's entirely fabricated. I am often asked about my current responsibilities, and I have gotten good at deflecting those questions and giving plausible-sounding answers when pressed.

jasper_zanjani

iBrokeIT said:

I would look into projects, volunteering and working with recruiters as a way to break into the industry. Good luck!

Where would you suggest I go to find projects and volunteer opportunities?

advanex1

jasper_zanjani said:

advanex1 said:

Let me get this straight. I post a discussion about how I can't get my first job in tech because I have no experience... and your response is you're not impressed with my experience? You did catch the word "first" right?

Thanks for looking me up on LinkedIn, I'm actually rather proud of my profile. I am certainly certified in all those technologies, you have to scroll down a bit further to see, and I have provided links to validate all my certs. As for my headline, that is marketing. Think of it as me speaking it into existence. And don't take the experience I put in my "current position" too seriously, I've actually been unemployed for almost two years.

You said it was easy to move into IT, I don't agree. My impression is that the people hiring for IT positions have no patience whatsoever for someone new to the field and value experience uber alles. Guys spend years, decades in the same position, and that is basically the only thing that matters. One guy I know has been an Active Directory Engineer for 16 years and his LinkedIn has nary a cert in sight. Everyone I talk to says I don't have the experience.. but I do have knowledge, core skills, a winning attitude, and the capacity to learn. I wish these things were valued more. But as your post confirms, at least by people in infrastructure, they are not.

Look, I hope you aren't getting angry about what I posted when I was trying to help you. I hope you can take the feedback/criticism and supply us with a resume to see how we can help you further. What I wasn't impressed with was the explanation of your experience. It offered no insight into what you can actually do and/or are capable of. You asked for advice.. I gave it to you. If you have a winning attitude and a capacity to learn then lets start at the basics of marketing yourself and your skills better.

Certifications aren't the end all be all, but if you have no experience it would be a way to show you can learn the technologies. However, you are going to have to start at a lower level more than likely than what you are willing to accept.

My LinkedIn for comparison: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jpinit/ (not the end all be all)

Jon_Cisco

Usually if you are trying to switch careers you are going to have to give some explanation about why your past experience has value to your new pursuit. Please just keep in mind the first job is the hardest to land. It should be considerably easier once you have established yourself. 

Good Luck!

NetworkingStudent

jasper_zanjani said:

advanex1 said:

Let me get this straight. I post a discussion about how I can't get my first job in tech because I have no experience... and your response is you're not impressed with my experience? You did catch the word "first" right?

Your first IT Job:
Someone needs to take a chance one you.  That's the hardest part of getting that first IT, you just need one person to take a chance on you.

Thanks for looking me up on LinkedIn, I'm actually rather proud of my profile. I am certainly certified in all those technologies, you have to scroll down a bit further to see, and I have provided links to validate all my certs. As for my headline, that is marketing. Think of it as me speaking it into existence. And don't take the experience I put in my "current position" too seriously, I've actually been unemployed for almost two years.

If you're unemployed for two years, then you need to have a reason why.  School,family issues, ect.................There is a difference between being certified in the technology and actually working with that technology.  I think it's great you have the certs that you do!! 

Your Linked in:
When I look at your Linked in profile, I think you're actually in that admin role.  However, you are not in the role, and this may confuse hiring managers, and recruiters.  A lot of recruiters and hiring managers do keyword searches and if they see your admin, and still working in that role, then they will probably reach out to you for roles that you're not qualified for.  

One guy I know has been an Active Directory Engineer for 16 years and his LinkedIn has nary a cert in sight. Everyone I talk to says I don't have the experience.. but I do have knowledge, core skills, a winning attitude, and the capacity to learn. I wish these things were valued more. But as your post confirms, at least by people in infrastructure, they are not.

You don't need certs in IT to stay in the same role.  I have met plenty of guys and gals in IT that do not have any certs, and they are extremely smart.  However,  to stay in a role you do need to experience, knowledge, and soft skills.  

NetworkingStudent

jasper_zanjani said:

LonerVamp said:

On your LinkedIn, it looks like you already have a tech job as a Systems Administrator. If that's sort of a fluff entry, are you putting that on your resume? Are you being asked about it in interviews?

Yeah it's entirely fabricated. I am often asked about my current responsibilities, and I have gotten good at deflecting those questions and giving plausible-sounding answers when pressed.

You really need to update your resume.  I'm not a recruiter or a hiring manager, but if a job candidate fabricated a job, and or company that would be a red flag.  If they do hire you on, then they will do a reference and employment check.  When the company does call that first company on your application and they cannot verify your employment, then you will not get hired on.     

If you post your resume on here with personal info removed, then a few of us can go through it..   Friendly suggestions will be made  on how to change your resume, so that it will help you land your first IT position.  

I rambled on to much.

Good Luck on your job search!!.

NetworkingStudent

jasper_zanjani said:

iBrokeIT said:

I would look into projects, volunteering and working with recruiters as a way to break into the industry. Good luck!

Where would you suggest I go to find projects and volunteer opportunities?

You can try volunteer Match for Volunteering  
https://www.volunteermatch.org/

The temp agencies will typically have projects.

TheFORCE

@jasper_zanjani tell the truth man, it holds more under pressure. 

iBrokeIT

jasper_zanjani said:

LonerVamp said:

On your LinkedIn, it looks like you already have a tech job as a Systems Administrator. If that's sort of a fluff entry, are you putting that on your resume? Are you being asked about it in interviews?

Yeah it's entirely fabricated. I am often asked about my current responsibilities, and I have gotten good at deflecting those questions and giving plausible-sounding answers when pressed.

Ugh... this is why you aren't getting past interviews and getting offers, you are lying and once they find out they want nothing to do with you.  Knock it off and you'll have more success.

jasper_zanjani

TheFORCE said:

@jasper_zanjani tell the truth man, it holds more under pressure. 

A Persian story goes like this. A king once ordered that a prisoner be killed. In his desperation, the prisoner began to curse and revile the king. The king asked what he was saying, and a vizier told him he is saying a prayer from the Qur'an. The king spared his life.

Another vizier then spoke out and said no, the prisoner was cursing the king. The king was displeased and said, "His lie was more pleasing to me than the truth you have spoken. The wise have said, 'a prudent lie is better than a seditious truth'."

iBrokeIT

Perhaps listening to a Founding Father and American president would serve you better than listening to a Persian king: 

“Honesty is the first chapter of the book wisdom.” – Thomas Jefferson

NetworkingStudent

Food for Thought   I had a Network Engineering interview once. I declined the interview, and told them I wasn’t qualified.  The company still wanted to interview me

When I got to the interview the first thing the hiring manager said is I really Impressed him!!

He said most people will lie and say they’re qualified for the role, when they’re not. 

MrsWilliams

jasper_zanjani said:

advanex1 said:

Let me get this straight. I post a discussion about how I can't get my first job in tech because I have no experience But you have System Administration on your LinkedIn profile?... and your response is you're not impressed with my experience? You did catch the word "first" right?

Thanks for looking me up on LinkedIn, 
  

jasper_zanjani said:

LonerVamp said:

On your LinkedIn, it looks like you already have a tech job as a Systems Administrator. If that's sort of a fluff entry, are you putting that on your resume? Are you being asked about it in interviews?

Yeah it's entirely fabricated. I am often asked about my current responsibilities, and I have gotten good at deflecting those questions and giving plausible-sounding answers when pressed.

Sir, 

First and foremost after it rains the sun comes out. Trouble doesn't last always. Most people (depending on geographic location) have experienced some sort of job woes. I am going to bring in a neutral opinion from my own point of view. 


- Some good points have been made. One being a certification doesn't equal job title. Yes, every certification body lists certifications that should qualify you for certain roles. But just having the cert alone doesn't automatically give you the right to add a title to your name. I believe if you weren't hired for a title, you shouldn't use it. I have never met an Engineer with less than 2 years of IT experience and the majority of that being System Admin.

3. Your LInkedIn bullets don't really catch me eye. Ex:
- Python and shell scripts to automate tasks

Hugh?

I was going to see what your company lists as sys admin duties. Interestingly enough your company doesn't have a careers section. What is funny is that, the contact for Embedded Technology System Solution, Inc lists his resume for download. He doesn't just list his resume but various download formats such as Word and PDF. WhAaAt?! I have never in my life seen a company contact representative give you a resume for download.

The company only has two employees!? Nothing on the companies LinkedIn speciality page says anything about Windows, Active Directory, Python etc.  

So, I think the company, your LinkedIn, and your job titles have raised some eyebrows around here (it's a tough crowd, trust me). 

I put in A+  in Indeed.com ( Dallas Fort Worth)  and got 196 jobs. How many of the 196 have you applied for?
I put in Linux+ and got 1,305 jobs ( Dallas Fort Worth). How many of the 1,305 have you applied for?

It can be hard but keep pushing. I have faith in you.

TheFORCE

@jasper_zanjani you might think yourself as the prisoner but these companies you are applying do not think themselves as the Persian king. 

LonerVamp

I just want to follow up and say that being caught in a lie or misrepresenting yourself is a huge deal. And it's not hard for me to sour on you once I look at your LinkedIn, see you have a job, and it only employs two people, and it exists in another state. Those are yellow flags. That tells me you have a friend or family member extending you a favor, to which I would just guess on my own that employment is more like occasional consulting/assistance. And once I start to question whether you're being truthful, that means one slip-up on anything even remotely technical and I will make my decision. If I feel like you have book knowledge, but not real world experience, the jig's up.

And for me to find that on my own is a huge red flag that you're not going to be a truthful employee. I'd hard pass as well, even with your certifications. I can find lots of people to do jobs; it's fit and integrity I need around me.

All of this also means you now can't speak about a career transition or reasons for that or all the hard work you've done on your own to change your course. Which, I will add, is what probably drew a lot of us to assist.

And while I think your Persian proverb has weight, I believe you're mis-applying it.

nathandrake

As someone that is pretty involved with the hiring process at my company (looking at resumes, interviewing, having a heavy say so in what candidates get hired), if I caught someone lying, I would not offer them the job.  I would not be able to trust you.  We also run a background checks to verify previous employment.  If you're caught lying in that process, you're not being offered the job either.  I would highly suggest not lying.  

jasper_zanjani

LonerVamp said:

All of this also means you now can't speak about a career transition or reasons for that or all the hard work you've done on your own to change your course. Which, I will add, is what probably drew a lot of us to assist.

I didn't understand this part, I certainly can speak about a career transition, once it's complete

TheFORCE

jasper_zanjani said:

LonerVamp said:

All of this also means you now can't speak about a career transition or reasons for that or all the hard work you've done on your own to change your course. Which, I will add, is what probably drew a lot of us to assist.

I didn't understand this part, I certainly can speak about a career transition, once it's complete

 @jasper_zanjani what @LonerVamp is saying is that all your hard efforts of certifying yourself and studying and having adesire to transition to a new industry gets nullified and negated when you are caught lying and your lies get exposed.  The people interviewing you will have a hard time believing that what you told them is true.

Johnhe0414

In my experience with local municipalities and entry level positions, the interview questions are straight forward - they may even provide you with the questions 15 minutes prior to your interview. What these organizations are looking for are people skills vs. experience as they want to hire the right people with good character. They know they can teach you the skills, so would rather find the right individual for their company. 

Don't give up - keep looking to get your foot in the door.

mikey88

jasper_zanjani said:

Hey guys, I've been on this forum for about half a year since deciding to get into the tech industry. Since I made the commitment, I have collected more than half a dozen technical certifications, from CompTIA A+ to a Python cert to, most recently, AWS cloud. But I have yet to break into my first sysadmin job, and even for help desk positions I am being told I don't have enough experience. I am getting frustrated and desperate.

Be honest. How many Sys Admin roles are you applying for vs helpdesk/desktop roles. With having a few certs under your belt, you may feel like you're entitled to higher level positions... but the goal should be to get anything entry level that comes your way.

As already mentioned, volunteer, work with temp agencies, move if able and do whatever it takes to get a foot in the door.

LonerVamp

jasper_zanjani said:

LonerVamp said:

All of this also means you now can't speak about a career transition or reasons for that or all the hard work you've done on your own to change your course. Which, I will add, is what probably drew a lot of us to assist.

I didn't understand this part, I certainly can speak about a career transition, once it's complete

I think a picture is slowly getting clearer, at least from my assumptions and reading between the lines.

See, if you go to a hiring manager and say you're making a career change/transition. He's going to be interested. He might even be interested in assisting, if he can. You have a story to tell about why you want to shift, what your reasons are, and what steps you've done on your own to facilitate and be ready. This is a great story to tell. It also puts into perspective what to expect from you (new, but motivated and clearly willing to learn). And since you're not just talking about a career change, but actually doing it with certs and study and effort...hell, that's showing positive worker traits!

But it sounds like you're trying to present yourself as an experienced sysadmin. Which means that great story cannot be told to the hiring managers. Instead, you're just another sysadmin with questionable experience and a shady-looking employment status (at best).

Likewise, if you started a thread on here with something like, "Needing advice as I search my next job," and compare it with, "Needing advice on my career change into IT," I would be willing to bet you'll get more advice, interaction, and responses in that second thread. We like to help, but there's a certain bit of intangible interest in helping someone new, than in helping someone who probably can help themselves (or should). And it really helps when you're clearly not a noob, and you have these certs you have, which means we don't have to play the "avoid the noob who knows nothing about technology and wants in the club oh-god-I-don't-have-time-for-this..." game.

Anyway, that career transition story? It's not useful once it's complete. Not unless you're semi-famous and writing a self-help book or something.

sephiroth66

Be friendly, be honest, be humble. 

Those will get you allot further than you think. Even if you're coming from being unemployed for the last 2 years after working at McDonald's (just an example) - be honest and let them know you're spent time dedicating to studying technology and working on building skills for your future. That's probably enough explanation right there to land you an entry tech position with minimal difficulty. 

Even if you've been living in your mom's basement for 2 years playing computer games while working on getting certs you shouldn't have a problem landing something basic. Just say your new to the industry and looking to learn and expand your knowledge and hoping to grow your position as time goes on.. blah blah etc. etc.

Just an A+ alone should be enough to land you in a basic tech support role you can work up from pretty quickly. Also, just a reminder - when you actually have a real tech job you can go look for better tech jobs and they can legitimately verify your employment.

I agree with others above about landing an engineer or sysadmin role straight up without any experience. It's not impossible, but will be unlikely. Mostly because what you actually deal with on a daily basis is not necessarily taught in books. There is certain work etiquette and subtle nuances you can only obtain with experience. Mainly (IMO)  because it's never consistent and doesn't always make logical sense, but is something you just get used to over the years. .. it's hard to explain. 

Fulcrum45

I agree with the others here: you have to be open about your experience- even if you have none. Sometimes you just can't "fake it till you make it" and it will only put added pressure on you. To make matters worse, should your new employer find out later that you were not completely truthful on your resume it could result in you losing  your new found position. If a steady gig is proving difficult to find reach out to local MSPs and offer up hourly assistance for any projects they have coming up. It could be something as simple as setting up Windows 10 PCs (since Windows 7 is going EoL) but it would be real experience and something you can add to your resume.