Degrees don't equal more money? | Skills are more valuable than experience?

Infosec_Sam

I came across an article today that I thought you guys might find interesting. According to research by Cynet, an academic degree doesn't actually have much of an impact on compensation in some cybersecurity positions, and skill beats experience in several roles as well. Here are some excerpts from the article, and you can read the rest here »

I'd love to hear what you think about their findings! Do you agree with Cynet, or did anything surprise you about what they found?

They weren't surprised to learn banking and finance usually lead in security compensation, says Yiftach Keshet, director of product marketing for Cynet. In the financial sector, 4% of respondents reported salaries of $111,000 to $130,000, 2% earn $131,000 to 150,000, and 2% earn $271,000 to $290,000. Healthcare also has salaries on the high end, with 17% who earn $111,000 to 130,000.

Location also had a tremendous impact on salary. Security analysts in North America report a significantly higher salary than in EMEA and APAC: More than 80% earn between $71,000 and $110,000 compared with less than 35% in EMEA and 21% in APAC earning the same. The highest-paid position recorded was security director, with top-tier earners making $290,000 or more.

"I was surprised to find out that an academic degree can have a relatively low impact on compensation," Keshet says. "That was surprising, especially in geographies like the United States and Europe."

When a candidate applies for an entry-level SOC role, it's easy to see what they know how to do and how they do it. The same goes for a pen tester or network security engineer, who are tasked with testing an organization's defenses and maintaining network defenses, respectively. Sixty percent of pen testers with an academic degree made less than $50,000, while 60% of pen testers without an academic degree made the same amount. A larger percentage of pen testers without a degree made between $51,000 to $70,000 and $91,000 to $110,000 compared with their degree-earning counterparts.

Link to full report, for those who are interested »

DFTK13

I’m not surprised by this. Cyber security isn’t the only specialization in the wide umbrella of information technology in which a degree isn’t  absolutely required to get up in the payscale. I know of people have software, network engineering jobs who got in just because they knew someone already in the field who could vouch for their skills in which they showcased it through a github portfolio, or a simple cert and a small functionality test.  

In fact, I work with a guy who does a lot of network installations and troubleshooting for various businesses on the side, he caught the eye of one particular big name company in which he was recommended to. They were having issues with their network. My coworker managed to solve their problem with a simple but critical connectivity issue, and they offered him a job on the spot, he told me the pay was towards 6 figures. My coworker has no degree, he only has an A+, but it was his skill and constant hands on experience that impressed the most. He turned down the offer ultimately as he enjoyed the freedom of his side business.

A specialized degree is good padding on your resume to get you an interview, but it’s your skills and experience that will get you the jobs you want long term. I can’t even begin to tell you how many times my degree has been glossed over as my interviewer just asked me “what can you do?” “What have you done?” Or something specific about X technology. 

McxRisley

Not once has my level of degree ever been brought up or asked about in an interview. I have always got by with my skills and certs. which ultimately landed me a six figure salary with only 3 years of experience at the time.

srothman

I've noticed this for a while now, and having been heavily involved in the recruiting process as well, I honestly couldn't give a hoot about an academic qualification. If you can get the job done, that's all what I'm concerned about.

This being said, in our local market, it is very often used as a differentiator, especially when candidates are very closely matched for a position, or when there are very specifics involved that may require a degree or academic pedigree. Having enrolled now for my MSc (at the tender age of 37), I can assure you it has nothing to do with financial gain. I've always maintained my industry certifications, and this coupled with extensive work experience to back it has served me well. I think anyone doing an extended academic qualification at the moment gets this.

At the most, short courses or vocational training counts for a lot more IMHO.

lucky0977

Can't wait to hear the complaints when an H1-B from India with an advanced degree starts taking jobs away from people with no college education because they'll do the same job for less pay.

MrsWilliams

lucky0977 said:

Can't wait to hear the complaints when an H1-B from India with an advanced degree starts taking jobs away from people with no college education because they'll do the same job for less pay.

A job for less pay is better than not having a job. It's been numerous people who've said they weren't taking a job because of the pay, but they didn't have a job. Pride will keep people from progressing in life. 

You really took the topic and ran with it, really far and out. Pretty extreme in my personal opinion.

You could have took that analogy and substituted just about anything into it. You picked Indians, a nationality A group of people from a country, India. Ok, cool.

If you have been in IT for a bit and have financial obligations, you will at some point in your life take a a job for less money than you would prefer. Guess what? Somebody turned that job down. Somebody had the same qualifications or experience as you and turned that job down. I read stuff on LinkedIN all the time about people "ghosting" recruiters before, during, or/and after interviews. I do it myself, like people have mentioned in the past. Once we talk numbers, if I am interested the conversation can continue. If I am not interested in the numbers the phone calls and emails go unanswered. 

What can't be argued is, some jobs require a degree. Some do. Saying no job in the entire Information Technology Field has a degree listed as mandatory is ridiculous. What people also have to understand is, people from all of the world visit this site. Some of these comments can be very offensive. 

As mentioned 10,000 times on this forum over the years. If a job requires a degree and someone has one, that are qualified and you aren't (if you don't have a degree). Ethnicity has nothing to do with it. What country someone grows up in has nothing to do with mandatory job requirements. Will some jobs take experience over education, yes. Some will some won't.

Some people have a lot of animosity towards people in other countries advancing education and professional wise and coming to America and being your supervisor. 

My doctor is Syrian. I guess when I found that out I should have walked out of his office LOL

People will work part-time jobs, declare bankruptcy, have a 565 credit score,  and live pay check to pay check BUT get mad at the person who is successful (and not in the same boat as them), no matter what country they were born in. This world we live in makes me laugh. 

People are these days are R..  - Never Mind - 

Have a good day. 

scaredoftests

I have an AA, but tons of experience and sometimes, the experience wins out over a BA degree..

bigdogz

This survey was not specific about where the jobs were located.

In the US, programmers can get away without a degree in most cases. Programmers will not be able to get into Utilitity, Financial, Automotive, and DoD positions without some influence.  A degree is preferred now and will make it tougher for those who don't have the degree, or they will make less.

Some people are not cut out for college and are millionaires and a few billionaires.  People may take a year off and go while others go after getting an idea of what they want to do in life.

At the end of the day more doors are opened for those who have a degree.

itdept

My degree has not helped me and advertised jobs that I'm seeing say things along the lines "don't bother to apply without a cert like AWS, CCNA, MCSE, etc
So I'm busily working on certs and hoping the wife stays patient.
Just my 2 cents

DFTK13

itdept said:

My degree has not helped me and advertised jobs that I'm seeing say things along the lines "don't bother to apply without a cert like AWS, CCNA, MCSE, etc
So I'm busily working on certs and hoping the wife stays patient.
Just my 2 cents

I completely understand, thankfully my wife has been understanding as she’s been staying home with our 1yr old. While I’m Working full time, going to school and studying for my certs which is tough but I know it’ll pay off. 

The only reason I’m getting My BS is just to say I have it and fill in the Blank next to “degree”. My A.S. taught me nothing, same for my ongoing B.S. I’ve learned most everything I know from books, hands-on, Labs or udemy.  It really amazes me how society has conditioned generations to define themselves based on what degree they have. It really limits potential when that kind of thinking is applied to our lives. 

TechGromit

Infosec_Sam said:

I came across an article today that I thought you guys might find interesting.

They weren't surprised to learn banking and finance usually lead in security compensation, says Yiftach Keshet, director of product marketing for Cynet. In the financial sector, 4% of respondents reported salaries of $111,000 to $130,000, 2% earn $131,000 to 150,000, and 2% earn $271,000 to $290,000. Healthcare also has salaries on the high end, with 17% who earn $111,000 to 130,000.

Not sure I understand this statement, so 2% of the respondents earned 130k +, what did the other 98% earn? $15 a hour?  

Infosec_Sam

TechGromit said:
Not sure I understand this statement, so 2% of the respondents earned 130k +, what did the other 98% earn? $15 a hour?  

Here's the report they're sourcing data from, if you're interested in having a closer look. I'll edit the OP and throw it in there as well. 

jeremywatts2005

Here is my take on it for what it is worth. I have two Master's degrees and a few certs like CySA+ and Cloud+.My base salary is over $200k plus I have a boatload of RSU's. I was able to move salary up from nothing using my degrees and strategic job changes. Knowing when to get out and to advance my salary somewhere else. Yes experience and certs are great, however it is how you position yourself and sell yourself. I am also living in Texas so my cost of living is VERY low. So for your folks in NY and San Fran yeah that may not seem like a lot. In Texas that is mega bucks 

JDMurray

jeremywatts2005 said:

... strategic job changes.

This is the one thing that has the most pay-off and is the most difficult to get right.

balance

Phew  I must not be doing something right . I couldn't hit 200K  in DFW even being fully DOD cleared and certified. . 

I Know that my certifications will helped me land my " Next Job"  but they didn't help much in my current role.  I am currently transitioning into a new role . My certifications were called out by HR as " The reason we hired you" .  That may or may not be true,  I feel it was a combination of certification and  DOD clearance. 

scasc

Just seen this post. Usually in IT, experience is key/skills are what you need not necessarily a degree. However, a degree is what gets you your first job as a Grad so this is critical. Moreover, take IB industry for example - the likes of GS/MS/JPM will only recruit the cream from the best uni's to fill their front office roles. I have found that for the more strategic/business facing roles usually a degree or masters is asked as being highly beneficial. However not for the tech roles. 

Like with everything in life....depends (coupled with luck/destiny etc). 

DatabaseHead

HR is lagging behind but finally getting it.  The data is there captured in their HRMS.  They can statistically prove what are the biggest drivers in their organization. There are also companies whose sole purpose is to capture and aggregate data for cross corporations.  These massive sets of data tell the true story.  

Skills of course are number 1.  
Experience is a good indicator if the person likes what they do.  If they like what they do, well you know.....

jeremywatts2005

Also another factor is the area of infosec you are in. I work in Digital Forensics and Incident Response Type roles. This field is HOT !!! Left a job in 2020 making $140 k a yr after 4 yrs.  I went to work for a job that paid $170K a yr plus 20% bonus. I worked the latter job and leveraged that salary and bonus to negotiate another company to pay me $200K in base plus a signing bonus plus RSU's in the $500K range for pre-ipo. Now the new job has me on the lock for 4 yrs to full vest. Each yr though I get 25% of those RSU's so forget the bonus I can make a lot more. One thing I did was beef that resume on Linkedin, don't be afraid to tell a recruiter you are not interested. Research companies and connect with their people, like their posts and agree with them. Get attention that way. Let them reach out so you have leverage to negotiation. Its hard to do strategic job moves and I turned down quite a few offers over the past yr for packages that were better but not good enough. I like to see base increases in the 15% or more range before I would consider a move. 

TechGromit

jeremywatts2005 said:

Also another factor is the area of infosec you are in. I work in Digital Forensics and Incident Response Type roles. This field is HOT !!! Left a job in 2020 making $140 k a yr after 4 yrs.  I went to work for a job that paid $170K a yr plus 20% bonus. 

Damn, thought i was doing good making 130k last year. Than again, where where these positions? The COL index in Rochester is 70, compared to 187 for New York City. 

DatabaseHead

TechGromit said:

jeremywatts2005 said:

Also another factor is the area of infosec you are in. I work in Digital Forensics and Incident Response Type roles. This field is HOT !!! Left a job in 2020 making $140 k a yr after 4 yrs.  I went to work for a job that paid $170K a yr plus 20% bonus. 

Damn, thought i was doing good making 130k last year. Than again, where where these positions? The COL index in Rochester is 70, compared to 187 for New York City. 

I like to play golf A LOT.  I have to be at least Jacksonville south if not farther down.  But addictions are addictions...