Certifications vs. Job Skills | Cyber Career Forum - Jason Dion

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Would you consider certifications to be a good measure of skill in the IT industry?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yxwgy3CL2OI

In this week's episode, Infosec Skills author Jason Dion talks about what an IT certification means to hiring managers, and what purpose they serve to job seekers. While most certs may not be the best way to measure job skills, they certainly demonstrate the ability to set a goal and achieve it! If you like the video, be sure to check out the rest of the playlist, and be on the lookout for more guests coming soon!

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beads

Generally not. I see too much emphasis by junior entrants to InfoSec plang far too much value on the paper cert rather than the underlying skill thus only setting themselves up for failure and disappointment. As a hiring manager I place little emphasis on the paper as much I do on the skill(s) and knowledge gained from study. These mean nothing if the candidate cannot utilize the skills at hand to the job requirements.

Been burned enough in the past couple of years with the whole paper tiger types and refuse to ever go back.

- b/eads

thomas_

I’ve been burned enough by people without certs as well...

Hawk321

beads said:

Generally not. I see too much emphasis by junior entrants to InfoSec plang far too much value on the paper cert rather than the underlying skill thus only setting themselves up for failure and disappointment. As a hiring manager I place little emphasis on the paper as much I do on the skill(s) and knowledge gained from study. These mean nothing if the candidate cannot utilize the skills at hand to the job requirements.

Been burned enough in the past couple of years with the whole paper tiger types and refuse to ever go back.

- b/eads

Than you do something fundamentally wrong.

Either you know the certs, when they are appropriate and when not or it's not justified to judge someone !
I would ask the candidate questions about which material they used and how they labbed. If they can't tell you the name of a book than voila...--> Cheater.
Sure if a junior with zero experience claims he has a Microsoft MCSA ...yep, that's nonsense. But a MCP makes sense.

Cisco as an example:
I would say, without following the curriculum and proving one has serious labbed, no one can really have the deep knowledge about networks (except one does certs with juniper etc.).

A university has normally not even close the time to teach all the stuff. So, if a network engineer gained experience over the years, he can also get a high class certificate like the CCNP.

Each time a person claims he has no time to do a cert, saying it's to expensive or just a rip off he is lying to himself. EVERYTIME those guys lack in knowledge of even the basic stuff. I know "engineers" who are not able to do subnetting...

At the other hand, I've zero respect of people who work for years and are not willed to move forward.

Perhaps I'm burned too ?
I quit a good job to get a new one (got lured to). After 2 days they crucified me because I presented my LPIC-2 cert to my supervisor (just to put it to the record). I received literally hate for that. Their reaction is so childish and -of course- their work was/is pure trash too.
I quit that job after 7 days.

The IT field is so broad, without certs there is no career.

DFTK13

@Hawk321

I’ve never seen a circumstance where one was absolutely dragged through the mud just because they had a cert that others didn’t like. Usually people are pretty cordial and understanding, at least I try to be to others. The LPIC-2 is a good cert that covers relevant material and makes you a competent Linux admin if you study the concepts. It just seems a bit excessive to me and yes...childish. Seems like they were the kind that only RHCSA/RHCE is acceptable? Anyways I’m glad you got out of that situation, that’s not good for anyone’s mental health. 

Hawk321

DFTK13 said:

@Hawk321
 Seems like they were the kind that only RHCSA/RHCE is acceptable? Anyways I’m glad you got out of that situation, that’s not good for anyone’s mental health. 

Those guys do not hold any kind of a cert !  They went nuts about CISCO too ("evil American imperialists" ...serious...they said that !!!). Perhaps they do have some issues, later I figured out that they don't even communicate with the devs.

DFTK13 said:

@Hawk321
 Usually people are pretty cordial and understanding, at least I try to be to others. .... It just seems a bit excessive to me and yes...childish.

Well Germany is totally different than the States and many aspects of our society changed (to the bad). I rarely see passionate IT guys here. I remember my time in the USA (different branch had an employer based visa)...it felt like I came home (100% compatible people) and germany is not and was always not my real home (despite it is...)

I'm glad that I left that shitty job.

DFTK13 said:

@Hawk321

The LPIC-2 is a good cert  that covers relevant material and makes you a competent Linux admin if  you study the concepts.

It took some time around 1.5 years ...other topics forced me to interrupt the LPIC-2 curriculum. For instance I read a whole SAMBA AD Book over my XMAS holidays :-) And I do lab, 3 big DELL Server here with a whole Proxmox Cluster :-)

DFTK13

@Hawk321

Oh my apologies, I had no idea your location was in Germany. It is very interesting to hear your experience regarding the IT atmosphere over there. Those former coworkers complete bias against American certs is unfounded and totally absurd. Now they really sound like just plain horrible people. You were 100% right to leave that job. If you don't mind me saying so, have you considered relocating to America especially after your period of work here? Your impressive list of certs and expertise would certainly raise much appreciation paywise and you as a person especially that you put in the work with a personal home lab. That is very nice! I completely understand about having to take a detour. However, SAMBA AD was a good interruption, in my opinion. I'm jealous, I just have a simple Raspberry PI4 that I use for a very tiny server for testing simple applications over my Cisco 1921, 2x 3750 lab set up, I hope to grow my lab as much as I can. Anyways, I wish you good luck on your future endeavors!

Hawk321

DFTK13 said:

@Hawk321

Oh my apologies, I had no idea your location was in Germany. It is very interesting to hear your experience regarding the IT atmosphere over there. Those former coworkers complete bias against American certs is unfounded and totally absurd. Now they really sound like just plain horrible people. You were 100% right to leave that job. If you don't mind me saying so, have you considered relocating to America especially after your period of work here?

The only chance is by winning a green card, a working visa is hard to get. If I could, I would directly pack my stuff !

However...future will tell how the US and Canada react to migration especially from the EU. Germany is boiling and Ghosts from the past that we believed are gone by our reunification are more present than ever.
Many experts try to leave the country...and retirees (when they can afford it) leaving too.