CBTNuggets for sale

yamahafirefly

If you look at my past posts I had recently said I was going to study for the A+. Turns out after studying I realized that I was going to go after Network+ and just skip A+. I want to get more into the Networking realm anyways.

Therefore, I will be selling my recently purchased CBTNuggets for A+ OS and Core. I believe they were $299, $308 with shipping and handling. I was going to go onto Ebay, but I figure I'd see what you guys thought. You think they would go for that much on Ebay? They're very helpful!!

Plantwiz

yamahafirefly wrote:

If you look at my past posts I had recently said I was going to study for the A+. Turns out after studying I realized that I was going to go after Network+ and just skip A+. I want to get more into the Networking realm anyways.

Therefore, I will be selling my recently purchased CBTNuggets for A+ OS and Core. I believe they were $299, $308 with shipping and handling. I was going to go onto Ebay, but I figure I'd see what you guys thought. You think they would go for that much on Ebay? They're very helpful!!

You CANNOT SELL your CBTNUGGETS vidoes. It is clearly stated in the user agreement. You cannot list them on e-b@y and you cannot sell them here.

Please careful read contracts before you accept them in the future. Consider this a cheap lesson learned.

OpenSource

Plantwiz wrote:

You CANNOT SELL your CBTNUGGETS vidoes. It is clearly stated in the user agreement. You cannot list them on e-b@y and you cannot sell them here.

Please careful read contracts before you accept them in the future. Consider this a cheap lesson learned.

I've never personally done business with CBT Nuggets as I find their material far out of price range for a single user (myself)... That said, in your opinion unless you can speak officially, why can't a customer sell a product(s) they legally purchased??... That just doesn't make sense to me.

- Joey

SRTMCSE

OpenSource wrote:

Plantwiz wrote:

You CANNOT SELL your CBTNUGGETS vidoes. It is clearly stated in the user agreement. You cannot list them on e-b@y and you cannot sell them here.

Please careful read contracts before you accept them in the future. Consider this a cheap lesson learned.

I've never personally done business with CBT Nuggets as I find their material far out of price range for a single user (myself)... That said, in your opinion unless you can speak officially, why can't a customer sell a product(s) they legally purchased??... That just doesn't make sense to me.

- Joey

b/c CBT Nuggests decided that they were more like "software" than videos and they license there videos. I guess CBT Nuggest didn't know it's legal to sell your copies of dvds and vhs tapes. don't know if they realized what product they sell but unfortunately they law is on there side.

sprkymrk

Here is a link to the question on CBTNuggets FAQ. "Can I sell my training when I’m done with it? ":
http://www.cbtnuggets.com/webapp/faq?op=viewitem&id=90

They don't consider their material "software" so much as they do "A seat in a classroom".

Plantwiz

OpenSource wrote:

Plantwiz wrote:

You CANNOT SELL your CBTNUGGETS vidoes. It is clearly stated in the user agreement. You cannot list them on e-b@y and you cannot sell them here.

Please careful read contracts before you accept them in the future. Consider this a cheap lesson learned.

I've never personally done business with CBT Nuggets as I find their material far out of price range for a single user (myself)... That said, in your opinion unless you can speak officially, why can't a customer sell a product(s) they legally purchased??... That just doesn't make sense to me.

- Joey

Hi Joey,

As a customer and as a member here I can respond on behalf of CBT Nuggets in that they have clearly given thier reasons:
http://www.cbtnuggets.com/webapp/faq?op=viewitem&id=90

Question
Can I sell my training when I’m done with it?

Answer
Our License Agreement* states that, "You may not rent, disclose, publish, sell, assign, lease, sublicense, market, or transfer the products." So can you resell our training? The short answer is no. Here's why.
We prevent the reselling of our training to keep our prices as low as possible while retaining top-notch trainers. We feel that this is the best way to serve you, our loyal customers.

As a comparison, you could think of purchasing training from CBT Nuggets as paying for the right to sit in a specific seat for a specific session of a class at a training center. You’re not buying the seat itself or the class itself, and so you don’t have the right to sell the seat or the class to another student. Once you’ve attended the class, you’ve received what you purchased. To get their own training, other students have to pay the training center for the right to sit in that seat – they can’t buy or inherit that right from you.

Our video training gives you the added bonus that you can attend the class over and over again, as many times as you’d like – but to keep the price for your training affordable and the quality high, we can’t allow you to invite all your friends without them paying for the class as well.

* The full text of the license agreement is available at http://www.cbtnuggets.com/html/about/license_review.html.

As I mentioned earlier boys and girls, this is an agreement one ACCEPTS prior to purchasing, you know all those things that far too many people click and say 'accept' to proceed to order or use something....like software, etc.. then try to claim "I didn't know!". Well, the real world is full of contracts and more contracts each day, so becareful what you 'ACCEPT' and "AGREE" to without knowing the fine print or understanding all the language of the terms of use.

The best part, CBT Nuggets doesn't hide this information from you. It's very clearly stated in their FAQ.

CBT Nuggets training videos are licensed by default for Single-user access only. Multi-user access is not allowed unless you have purchased the Multi-User version and the appropriate number of viewer licenses. If the videos are shown in a classroom of 10 students, you must purchase one Multi-User version of the training material and 10 Multi-User Viewer Licenses.
1. GRANT OF LICENSE. CBT Nuggets Inc. grants you a non-transferable, non-exclusive license to use the training videos contained in this package (the "Products"), solely for internal use by your business or for your own personal use. You may not copy, reverse engineer, translate, port, modify or make derivative works of the Products. You may not rent, disclose, publish, sell, assign, lease, sublicense, market, or transfer the Products or use them in any manner not expressly authorized by this Agreement. You shall not derive or attempt to derive the source code, source files or structure of all or any portion of the Products by reverse engineering, disassembly, decompilation or any other means. You do not receive any, and CBT Nuggets, Inc. retains all, ownership rights in the Products. The Products are copyrighted and may not be copied, even if modified or merged with other Products. You shall not alter or remove any copyright notice or proprietary legend contained in or on the Products.

2. DISCLAIMER OF WARRANTY AND LIABILITY. The products are provided to you on an "as is" and "with all faults" basis. You assume the entire risk of loss in using the products. The products are complex and may contain some nonconformities, defects or errors. CBT Nuggets does not warrant that the products will meet your needs, "expectations or intended use," that operations of the products will be error-free or uninterrupted, or that all nonconformities can or will be corrected. CBT Nuggets makes and user receives no warranty, whether express or implied, and all warranties of merchantability, title, and fitness for any particular purpose are expressly excluded. In no event shall CBT Nuggets be liable to you or any third party for any damages, claim or loss incurred (including, without limitation, compensatory, incidental, indirect, special, consequential or exemplary damages, lost profits, lost sales or business, expenditures, investments, or commitments in connection with any business, loss of any goodwill, or damages resulting from lost data or inability to use data) irrespective of whether CBT Nuggets has been informed of, knew of, or should have known of the likelihood of such damages. This limitation applies to all causes of action in the aggregate including without limitation breach of contract, breach of warranty, negligence, strict liability, misrepresentation, and other torts. In no event shall CBT Nuggets' liability to you or any third party exceed $100.00.

3. MISCELLANEOUS. This is the exclusive Agreement between CBT Nuggets, Inc. and you regarding its subject matter. You may not assign any part of this Agreement without CBT Nuggets' prior written consent. This Agreement shall be governed by the internal laws of Oregon. You shall pay any taxes on the Products or transactions except for those based on CBT Nuggets' annual net income. If any provision of this Agreement is declared invalid or unenforceable, the remaining provisions of this Agreement shall remain in effect. Any notice under this Agreement shall be delivered by U.S. certified mail, return receipt requested, or by overnight courier to CBT Nuggets, Inc. at the following address: 44 Club Rd Suite 150, Eugene, OR 97401.





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Copyright ©1999-2006, CBT Nuggets

In simpliest terms, you cannot do it because the FLAT OUT TELLS YOU it violates the terms of use

OpenSource

Thanks for posting the FAQ information. I must be an idiot because I looked and could not find it, or I might not of looked hard enough. But either case, thanks.

"You may not rent, disclose, publish, sell, assign, lease, sublicense, market, or transfer the products."

// START RANT //

No offense to CBT Nuggets, I like their products, I just cannot afford them. But that is a giant load of pure garbage. I can understand trying to prevent resellers and perhaps piracy, but not being able to "rent, disclose, publish, sell, assign, lease, sublicense, market, or transfer" a legally purchased product is simply not something I'm comfortable with.

This is the U.S. and consumers have rights, one of which is usually the sole ability to do what we wish with our legally owned possessions. This to me is like Sony telling me that I cannot sell my [insert band] CD once I've listend to it, or Lucas Films telling me I cannot sell me Star Wars DVD once I've watched it. It just doesn't make sense.

The way I see it, after reading the excuses CBT Nuggests made in their FAQ, it seems they (CBT Nuggets) simply just don't want people perhaps buying their (CBT Nuggets) products at a lower cost, rather they (CBT Nuggets) want the consumer to drain their bank accounts by paying CBT Nuggets outrageously high asking prices...

// END RANT //

- Joey

Danman32

I understand what you are thinking, but this isn't about buying a thing, it is about buying a privilege to access information.

As for music CDs and movie DVDs, you may see that move in the same direction. Already MP3/IPOD downloads are adding DRM where it can't be transferred from one device to another, or only a few times.

Even some software is not legally transferrable even when you don't keep a copy or install yourself, though often it is done when licensing doesn't allow it.

One of the key differences between how a CBT would be used versus a movie or song, is that a movie or song will likely be viewed/heard many times by the licensee over a long course of time. This is unlike a CBT, which most likely will be viewed for a short duration until the cert has been obtained. So if you listen buy and watch a movie, then sell the media it is on to someone else, you no longer get to watch the movie, which you may want to do later on. If you do want to watch it later on, you have to obtain a license again to watch it, which is likely to occur. Little loss ocurs to the copyright holder.
But with a CBT, once you got your cert and transfer the license, you are very unlikely to want to relicense again.

Even with OS, you have seats. Some OS allow for concurrent license seats, where if a person logs off, someone else can take his license. Others, the user holds the seat license even when he logs off. To be fair, OSs do allow a user license to become re-assignable after a period of unuse.

Think of it from the point of view of the copyright holder. You write a great story. It gets published. Only one person buys it, and you get royalty for only that one copy. That person then hands it off (or sells it) to his friend, then so on and so on. After a time, 100 people read your story, but you only got credit for one read. Are you still able to eat?

BubbaJ

I'm not sure that is legally binding. Copyright law has a "first sale" doctrine that allows you to do what you wish with something you bought. You can give it away, sell it, or whatever else you wish to do.

This has been challenged in court by record companies, movie studios, software makers, etc., but it always prevails (despite restrictive licensing agreements). The current DRM model is trying to do an end-run around this. DRM also prevents legally archiving or transferring to another medium which the Supreme Court has held is legal.

The area is so grey that the only thing working right now is the threat of lawsuits by deep-pocketed corporations.

Danman32

I've heard the opposite. Yes you can archive and transfer media for your own personal use, that has been held up in court, but not transfers to another person or organization.

If you have examples, and even better, the clause you claim, I'd love to see it.

BubbaJ

It is really a body of law from many court decisions, not a single clause. This is the best definition I can find:

Fair use allows certain uses of a work — for example, quotations — without permission or payment. The first sale doctrine allows the new owner of a work to treat it as his or her own; he or she can sell it or alter it.

The "first sale" doctrine is what allows a book purchaser to lend a book she has bought and enjoyed to family and friends, without fear of a lawsuit from the author or publisher. It also lets used bookstores, such as Amazon.com's Z-shops, capture all the gain from the sales of used books, without having to share it with authors or publishers. Finally, it enables libraries to freely lend out books to anyone with a library card, again without making any payment to the author or publisher beyond the price of the book's initial purchase.

When specifically asked if this applies to permit digital transmissions of lawfully made copies of works, the Copyright Office declined to render an opinion.

There is a book that delves into this: THE DMCA, THE DEATH OF NAPSTER, AND THE DIGITAL AGE: A Review Of Jessica Litman's Digital Copyright
By LAURA HODES

Plantwiz

Anyone remember a time when a person's word was as good as gold? It's been a very long time and very rarely can anyone opperate today without involving a bunch of legal nonsense.

If you don't or cannot agree to the terms, just be the better person and don't use the goods.

CBT Nuggets materials are pretty darn good. They give you a great opportunity to sample a variety of videos for free to see how it may apply to your study needs, if it doesn't work for you that is fine....don't buy it and don't steal it.

Everyone wants a job and wants to be compensated for the work they do. These people put a lot of information together to explain various concepts about Comptuers to people who wish to prepare for exams. If you don't want to use a video, then just read the books and work in your lab and be done with it. Sometimes it is helpful to hear the material in another voice.

But if you try to sell their material here or anywhere else, are you ready for a legal battle with CBT Nuggets? And as a bonus for violating a contract, you'll also be banned from this site!

BubbaJ

Plantwiz wrote:

Anyone remember a time when a person's word was as good as gold? It's been a very long time and very rarely can anyone opperate today without involving a bunch of legal nonsense.

If you don't or cannot agree to the terms, just be the better person and don't use the goods.

CBT Nuggets materials are pretty darn good. They give you a great opportunity to sample a variety of videos for free to see how it may apply to your study needs, if it doesn't work for you that is fine....don't buy it and don't steal it.

Everyone wants a job and wants to be compensated for the work they do. These people put a lot of information together to explain various concepts about Comptuers to people who wish to prepare for exams. If you don't want to use a video, then just read the books and work in your lab and be done with it. Sometimes it is helpful to hear the material in another voice.

But if you try to sell their material here or anywhere else, are you ready for a legal battle with CBT Nuggets? And as a bonus for violating a contract, you'll also be banned from this site!

Don't get me wrong. I'm not advocating that anyone violate a license agreement, and if I wanted to use this product I would certainly buy it.

As I wrote before, I'm not sure the license is legally binding. It certainly appears that arguments may be made on both sides, but the current law on videos is the "first sale" doctrine. Until this question is adjudicated, one would be wise to adhere to the license.

Danman32

I had thought of another thing. When you buy a book or video, you don't sign a contract (or make a mark or clear action that indicates you agree to such contract), so the regular (default if you will) copyright laws would apply. However, with software, some videos, and other intangible information, you sign or acknowledge a contract, an agreement if you will, that states what you can or cannot do with said material. Unless there's a violation of the law, which I don't believe requiring the material to be confidential is a violation, it is binding. If there were no licensing agreement, then I would agree that it could be transferred.

Sie

The bottom line is it is a legal document you have agreed to.

If it had said you need to stand on one leg with a bucket of custard over your head while you used it aslong as itslegally binding you would have to.

If you use it to gain the knowledge and then sell it you have benefitted twice from what is meant to be ta "one use" product.

Imagine copying the contense of your brain and then someone just taking it after the amount of time and effort you have built up to get it to that point.

[edit - I heard its actually 'technically' illegal to produce MP3's from CD's and store them on your MP3 player (as the music copyrights state it is illegal to copy, redistribute or sell) but this is not an 'enforced' law]

BubbaJ

Danman32 wrote:

When you buy a book or video, you don't sign a contract (or make a mark or clear action that indicates you agree to such contract), so the regular (default if you will) copyright laws would apply.

But you used to. It went something like by opening the shrink wrap on this video tape you agree to.... The courts ruled that was unenforceable and illegal. We are still waiting for something definitive on electronic transmission.

Sie wrote:

The bottom line is it is a legal document you have agreed to.

That's the question. Until it is answered, you should assume it is, but I have my doubts that it is.

Sie wrote:

If it had said you need to stand on one leg with a bucket of custard over your head while you used it aslong as itslegally binding you would have to.

That would definitely be unenforceable and illegal.

Sie wrote:

edit - I heard its actually 'technically' illegal to produce MP3's from CD's and store them on your MP3 player (as the music copyrights state it is illegal to copy, redistribute or sell) but this is not an 'enforced' law]

You heard wrong. The courts have ruled that this falls under the doctrine of "fair use". Recording companies still try to use the copyright/license argument to bully people into believing this. The fact is that despite any such wording on any recorded work, it is an unenforeable and illegal restriction, and the buyer is entitled to do with it as he pleases.

Sie

BubbaJ wrote:

Sie wrote:

If it had said you need to stand on one leg with a bucket of custard over your head while you used it aslong as itslegally binding you would have to.

That would definitely be unenforceable and illegal.

Yeah but you get my overall point.

Danman32

Unenforcable yes, but how would that be illegal?

BubbaJ

Danman32 wrote:

Unenforcable yes, but how would that be illegal?

Illegal in the sense that it is not legal, not that it is a crime. In civil court, a contract that is not legally binding is called an illegal contract even if no crime is committed. It is also good to note that one or more bad clauses in a contract don't necessarily render the entire contract void. Only a court can determine that.

Danman32

Again I ask, unenforceable yes in the sense how would they catch you not using the product in the manner specified, ridiculous again yes, but how is that not legal? If that's not legal, then what makes a term of contract legal?

BubbaJ

Danman32 wrote:

Again I ask, unenforceable yes in the sense how would they catch you not using the product in the manner specified, ridiculous again yes, but how is that not legal? If that's not legal, then what makes a term of contract legal?

Contract law is large, and I'm not a lawyer. What I understand from my study is that clause (I mean the one about standing on one leg, etc.) does not benefit either party. A contract has to have consideration on both sides. A clause such as that is gratuitous.

Danman32

I don't know about that. The receiver gets to use the product, though I'll admit it might be challenging. And the sender gets a good laugh if he is able to observe. So both parties do benefit somehow. Most contracts are that way, otherwise why would one want to enter into one?

"sign this contract that says I will own everything you have including your money. You get nothing for it" Unless signed in duress, signing such a contract would be stupidity.

jpeezy55

I don't usually read agreements since if you want to use the product, you have no choice to agree to what they say, and on software, the 'next' is blocked until you agree...isn't that a forceful tactic?

Anyway, does it state that you can not give it away for free to someone in the CBT Contract?

If there is no stipulation that you can not just give it to someone, then there are ways around that...especially on eBay. I am a football fanatic and I have seen so many auctions for past Superbowl Games on eBay. Now these were never released to the public, someone just recorded them and is selling them. They are copyrighted without a doubt. Here is what they do (and this was my favorite one) the auction was something like this: (just a note here, they were the 4 that the Steelers won in the 70's)

You are bidding on these 4 cd labels. Each one depicts a different Superbowl. If you are the winning bidder, I will personally affix these labels to a dvd before shipping them to you.

Now, there was no mention about what was on the DVD, but you kinda guessed correctly here...so the auction was actually for 4 CD labels, but the guy gave you the DVD's that just happened to have the games on them. He didn't make a profit on them, he just gave them away...I've seen this done with game tickets also...people bid $1,000 for some old football card and the seller gave them a ticket for the game. They never re-sold the ticket, just the card. Hopefully I don't give anyone the wrong impression here (about me or anything else), but I'm just stating what I've seen people do to get around copyrights and laws.

So, people find ways around contracts all the time...not saying I agree with it all of the time, but it happens.

Also, most software, and this used to be a federal law, entitles you to make 1 (and only 1) back-up copy for your own personal archive. What was done with that back-up, who knows, but you used to be able to legally make one back-up of any software you bought, including Windows - even they were not safe from this.

By the way, did anyone notice that the guy who started this thread has not posted since...hopefully he is still reading it, but he never responded to anything here.

Danman32

You may not rent, disclose, publish, sell, assign, lease, sublicense, market, or transfer the Products or use them in any manner not expressly authorized by this Agreement.

and

This is the exclusive Agreement between CBT Nuggets, Inc. and you regarding its subject matter. You may not assign any part of this Agreement without CBT Nuggets' prior written consent.

pretty much says you can't give it away in legalese.

And the backup copy is for your own use, not for someone else's, in the event of the original's destruction.

As for the tricks used on Ebay, I am sure the courts would have a problem with them since the item actually auctioned has far less market value than the amount sold for and the included gift. Now if the auctioned item actually had a reasonable market value, then I could see getting away with including the tickets.

As for the DVDs, I am sure they are illegal copies, and the buyer as well as the owner could get into serious trouble. That's clearly copyright violation in its most simplest terms and understanding. Copyright means copy right. As in the right to make copies, which only the copyright holder has, with the exception of backup copies for one's own personal protection of the original also under his possesion, or excerpts under fair use clause, which is intended for comments and critiques.

BubbaJ

Danman32 wrote:

I don't know about that. The receiver gets to use the product, though I'll admit it might be challenging. And the sender gets a good laugh if he is able to observe. So both parties do benefit somehow. Most contracts are that way, otherwise why would one want to enter into one?

"sign this contract that says I will own everything you have including your money. You get nothing for it" Unless signed in duress, signing such a contract would be stupidity.

I am confident that such a clause would not hold up in court. Despite popular opinion (mostly based on juries), courts do apply reaonableness.

You would be amazed at the bad clauses that are purposely inserted in contracts. They are usually done by lawyers where the lawyers know it's wrong but won't void the whole contract. This is to try to bully the other (possibly more ignorant) party into abiding by the unenforecable/illegal terms.

Often, such things end up in contracts between private parties because they don't know any better. There are a lot of stupid people out there, and they do sign one-sided contracts. If such a contract is challenged, it will be tossed out. Unfortunately, I think the vast majority don't get challenged.

If a clause serves no purpose to either party nor meets a legal need to be there, it will be tossed as gratuitous. The purpose of a contract is to benefit both parties. The clause needs to benefit one party or the other, or it needs to be there to meet a legal requirement. Contracts are also construed most narrowly against the party that wrote the contract.

Sie

Just thinking.

Your allowed to make 1 backup of software, if you own the original disk.

You then lose or accidently break the orignal, thus you no longer have the orginal.

Where do you stand and how can you prove this?

How do they know Joe Bloggs 'backup' is not a backup and is indeed a copy?

See what im getting at??

BubbaJ

There is a lot of grey area now. For example, the law allows you to make an archival copy. It used to be that you were allowed to break copy-protection schemes to do this. The DMCA made it a crime to break a copy-protection scheme. Now, on one hand, you are allowed to make a copy, but, on the other hand, you may not be allowed to make a copy.

yamahafirefly

it doesn't seem fair that since i paid $300 for a set of really informative videos, i can't resell it since i won't be using it. maybe i could return it? i have a+ books and i don't need cbt nuggets for a reference. i just toally lost $300 and it's really driving me nuts.

don't get me wrong cbt nuggets are great aids for certification. i LOVE them. we used to watch them in my network sec. class and its well worth the money because it's like being in a classroom. BUT SINCE THEY'RE MEDIA i think we should be allowed to resell them. especially because of the amount they are.

cbt nuggets are sold on ebay btw

Danman32

Sie wrote:

Just thinking.

Your allowed to make 1 backup of software, if you own the original disk.

You then lose or accidently break the orignal, thus you no longer have the orginal.

Where do you stand and how can you prove this?

How do they know Joe Bloggs 'backup' is not a backup and is indeed a copy?

See what im getting at??

Keep the broken pieces. Also keep the orignal license agreement paper (though these days even that is in electronic form).

jpeezy55

Sie wrote:

Just thinking.

Your allowed to make 1 backup of software, if you own the original disk.

You then lose or accidently break the orignal, thus you no longer have the orginal.

Where do you stand and how can you prove this?

How do they know Joe Bloggs 'backup' is not a backup and is indeed a copy?

See what im getting at??

That kinda goes back to the "whatever you do with the backup is a different matter" theme to my earlier post...Say you make a copy and give it a friend who then does the same for another friend, etc...Who's to say that the others never owned it in the first place? Same goes with your original...if you don't keep financial records of what you bought to show proof, how does anyone know you ever owned the original?

I think it's a never-ending battle...

Danman32

yamahafirefly wrote:

BUT SINCE THEY'RE MEDIA i think we should be allowed to resell them. especially because of the amount they are.

It's not about the media, its about the information on the media. They treat it as a recording of a class as if you attended that class. If you attended a class that you paid for and some friends didn't, and the instructor allowed you to record that class so you could review, should your friends be permitted to keep or even view that recording rather than attend that class?

How about always available anytime distance learning?