Employer asking for present salary on application?

keenon

i would suggest never telling them..

it would only prompt them to offer a little more than you make and not the market rate for that job

Danman32

Not to mention fixed cost per person benefits.

One health plan versus 2.
One vacation package versus 2
One stock purchase versus 2 (thought the 100K guy might do better here)
One retirement plan contribution versus 2.

BubbaJ

Olajuwon wrote:

pjam76 wrote:

And the truth is, in the business world, 2 evenly matched candidates making 50K are a lot better then one great one making 100K.

I disagree with this statement. It's like saying 2 average Joes are better than 1 genius. Think about it.

You may disagree, but I have seen this exact thing happen a few times in the real world. Most recently, when I changed jobs within my comapny, my former manager decided not to hire a direct replacement for me. He, instead, decided to hire two cheaper, less-experienced (really no experience in what I did) employees because he would rather have the bodies. His reasoning was that the rest of his employees could fill the gap that I was leaving. As I understand it, this hasn't worked out very well, but he stands by his decision.

Your disagreement has to do with what should be, but it doesn't match what is. I had a Senior VP tell me his "Altitude Theory of Management". He said that as you go higher in management, it is like going higher in the atmosphere - there is less oxygen getting to your brain. This was his explanation for why management makes decisions that seem contrary to front-line workers' sensibilities, and that there is a should be that has no relation to what is.

pjam76

Most people are not geniuses....

And management makes stupid mistakes all the time. One Sr level person leaves and then they bring in two entry level people to replace that person.. that's stupid.

What my point was is that there are certain people who think they are "geniuses" when in fact they aren't. There are many in IT over the years that think this way. There are also many people who see so and so makes 80K why am i only making 50K?

They forget to realize they live in Nebraska and not NJ and so on.

What I've learned over the years is the fact that management makes stupid mistakes, but people in IT have been come from basements into the limelight and now into "we are owed something."

While 2 avg employees are not going to replace some Genius. The truth is there are not that many geniuses.
Most people are avg, even if they don't think they aren't.

So two avg people replacing somebody slightly above avg isn't all that much to worry about.

Yeah 2 people might cost more in the long run, but I've been around the block long enough to realize, most people take vacations, time off, or leave for better money.

Why are many companies starting to outsource and open up in India, Phillipines, and China?

Because many IT workers over the years have been too involved in thinking they are better then they actually are.

IT has been given a free pass for years. Y2K was great because it provided tons of jobs, but when nothing happened anywhere, it was looked at as a waste of money.

Now IT is "bottom-line." There have been way too many projects overbudgeted and never finished because some IT people think they are geniuses but really can't figure out how to use what they are doing for the business.

IT is great. It's kept my bills paid and made me money over the years. It's improved many things.

But IT has gotten a bad wrap because many IT workers aren't geniuses, but claim they are because they know somebody in business knows nothing about IT.

And then as times change, Business does what business does. IT's about the MONEY.

Heck, if it's not then why do y ou need 95k instead of 65k. It's always about the money.

And now the problem is business has woken up to the fact that over the years, half of IT, has been wasteful spending.

Most businesses don't want to spend 1 million bucks on licensing fees only to find out next year that they have to upgrade or that there are security breeches or that the IT staff needs more training on the new software.

While it's nice to think because you know IT you're a genius. The fact is, most people are not.

So the whole 2 vs 1 theory is what it is.

If the guy making 50K per year is a genius, why is he only making 50K per year?

People can jump in salaries, everybody does it. But business is about money. You want more money. The business wants more money.

Don't get on the businessses case because they are thinking about the money. Last I looked, your thinking about a raise.

And to the OP, many places I've worked at in the past, most people didn't know my salary, so why would I tell somebody whom I don't know nor do i have a job with, reveal my salary.

It's like those certain jobs that require your social security number before they even interview you. You can give it if you want, but I'll be happy to keep mine where mine should be, with me.

sprkymrk

Wow. Nice outlook. Summary:

Most people are average. Management makes stupid mistakes all the time. IT people have been given a pass for years and are now bottom line. It's all about the money.

I think I am done reading for today, it's suddenly very depressing.

PS - Welcome to the forums PJ...

Olajuwon

I exaggerated by saying genius. I meant to say 1 person with superior knowledge in a field is better than 2 equally qualified individuals with less knowledge in that field. It also depends on the gap in knowledge between the candidates. A small gap would not matter.

12thlevelwarrior

pjam76 wrote:

Most people are not geniuses....

And management makes stupid mistakes all the time. One Sr level person leaves and then they bring in two entry level people to replace that person.. that's stupid.

What my point was is that there are certain people who think they are "geniuses" when in fact they aren't. There are many in IT over the years that think this way. There are also many people who see so and so makes 80K why am i only making 50K?

They forget to realize they live in Nebraska and not NJ and so on.

What I've learned over the years is the fact that management makes stupid mistakes, but people in IT have been come from basements into the limelight and now into "we are owed something."

While 2 avg employees are not going to replace some Genius. The truth is there are not that many geniuses.
Most people are avg, even if they don't think they aren't.

So two avg people replacing somebody slightly above avg isn't all that much to worry about.

Yeah 2 people might cost more in the long run, but I've been around the block long enough to realize, most people take vacations, time off, or leave for better money.

Why are many companies starting to outsource and open up in India, Phillipines, and China?

Because many IT workers over the years have been too involved in thinking they are better then they actually are.

IT has been given a free pass for years. Y2K was great because it provided tons of jobs, but when nothing happened anywhere, it was looked at as a waste of money.

Now IT is "bottom-line." There have been way too many projects overbudgeted and never finished because some IT people think they are geniuses but really can't figure out how to use what they are doing for the business.

IT is great. It's kept my bills paid and made me money over the years. It's improved many things.

But IT has gotten a bad wrap because many IT workers aren't geniuses, but claim they are because they know somebody in business knows nothing about IT.

And then as times change, Business does what business does. IT's about the MONEY.

Heck, if it's not then why do y ou need 95k instead of 65k. It's always about the money.

And now the problem is business has woken up to the fact that over the years, half of IT, has been wasteful spending.

Most businesses don't want to spend 1 million bucks on licensing fees only to find out next year that they have to upgrade or that there are security breeches or that the IT staff needs more training on the new software.

While it's nice to think because you know IT you're a genius. The fact is, most people are not.

So the whole 2 vs 1 theory is what it is.

If the guy making 50K per year is a genius, why is he only making 50K per year?

People can jump in salaries, everybody does it. But business is about money. You want more money. The business wants more money.

Don't get on the businessses case because they are thinking about the money. Last I looked, your thinking about a raise.

And to the OP, many places I've worked at in the past, most people didn't know my salary, so why would I tell somebody whom I don't know nor do i have a job with, reveal my salary.

It's like those certain jobs that require your social security number before they even interview you. You can give it if you want, but I'll be happy to keep mine where mine should be, with me.

Wow, alll over the place, really didn't have time to read everything, but the whole premise of hiring two people for one is based on the fact that the company could find two people that would work for 50k on a 100k job. I mean, you say why hire one guy at 100k? Stop right there, and hold that thought. If we are talking about a helpdesk position then exactly, why hire someone at 100k!?!? If you did you would be crazy. If we are talking about a Oracle DBA then yes spend the 100k because there are much fewer people that are experts in Oracle than there are people that know about desktop support. In this case you couldn't get two people at 50k each, because anyone that knows Oracle at the expert level would never work for 50k. So basically the scenario you laid out would not be possible even if the company wanted to do it. And yes, if you spend years of your life learning a technology and going to school and studying after awhile I would say a "you owe me something" is justified, I would categorize it as more of a "you need me" because I know my stuff inside and out attitude.

garv221

pjam76 wrote:

It's nice to believe that companies should pay top dollar for their employees. it just doesn't work that way.

And really why should it.

As one poster said, If he doesn't get a raise or the right salary, he walks and goes to another job or opening.

Lets talk about fair according to some posters.

You get a job making 95K per year. It's a 30K raise over your last job someplace else. You have the experience and knowledge and now your making decent money.

But like many "Businesses" that you might work for, some years are not as good as others. Sometimes the markets are not as good as other years.

So now making 95K a year is great for you but the business is still losing money. IT is not some magic wand that's waved and suddenly the business becomes successful. It does't work like that.

So if the business is making less money this year, maybe they need to cut your salary from 95K to 85K......... Most people, as stated previously, would walk.

heck look at some airlines looking to cut costs but the flight attendants and unions are fighting the salary cuts.

IT's business. If you are not going to take a paycut in bad times, then it's only reasonable and "ethical" to think why would a business give you $95K when you've only been making 65k.

Most positions don't have a set in stone factor.

And the truth is, in the business world, 2 evenly matched candidates making 50K are a lot better then one great one making 100K.

Because in the real world, people get sick, people go on vacation, people move onto other jobs and/or retire.

Business is not a one man sport nor is IT anymore. It's too large. And the truth is, while everybody is important, there are millions of people waiting in line to take your job... Maybe even at a less wage.

Is it fair... Probably not.

But it's not fair when a business is losing money because many IT projects over the years are failures or overbudgeted.... and most of those employees are not going to take a pay cut when times are bad for the company.

So why should a company be over generous to an employee when times are good. Be fair, but you don't have to be like everybody was during "DOT COM" days. Cause if you remember correctly, most of those companies are long gone.

Just stop it.

12thlevelwarrior

LOL LOL

sprkymrk

brennonbladin wrote:

LOL LOL

Quit laughing, you started this!

12thlevelwarrior

FYI, got a call about a second interview on this job.

blargoe

Cool!