Going to the DarkSide.....MAC

Plantwiz

Ok,
I've become a bit miffed with MS this past week on a small, but rather annoying issue.

Considering the volume of business I send their way, the thousands of dollars of software I recommend/spec/sell for them, the tie-in products they offer, the upgrades etc... (I really mean thousands of dollars worth of their products per month). ....but that's a story for another time

I'm looking at going back to Apple Yep. It's been 23 years since my first purchase and only purchase of an Apple computer, and I'm thinking that it's time I give Macintosh a second look.

However, I've been so removed from MAC's I'm not exactly positive what is a DOG vs. what is AWESOME to have in their line of products and would like some commentary.


I think my first choice would be a notebook in the 14/15" range (don't need a 17"). So I'd like something durable, good battery, pretty fast to run Adobe products (which I'm sure I'll get to purchase all over again in the MAC flavor).
Website stuff
E-mail
No games
Documents, spreadsheets, etc...
Maybe some video creating/photos etc...

I like to mutli-task and have a number of programs running, so I don't really want a dog, but it doesn't have to be TOP of the line either.

I'll even start with a refurb or slightly used unit to save a few dollars.

Second choice would be some desktop type unit.


Biggest concerns:
1. Noise
2. Heat
3. Reliability
4. Compatibility with my current peripherals (though I'll worry about this after I find a good place to start).


SO MAC people....what do you like?


Thanks!

JDMurray

Be sure that you buy an Intel-based Mac. They run faster and cooler, and with Parallels you can also run Windows.

http://www.parallels.com/en/products/workstation/mac/

Plantwiz

jdmurray wrote:

Be sure that you buy an Intel-based Mac. They run faster and cooler, and with Parallels you can also run Windows.

http://www.parallels.com/en/products/workstation/mac/

THanks:
I was hoping the Intel-based ones were a good option (even if it's not AMD...it's close ).

Parallels:
Basically like VirtualPC?

Plantwiz

So should I guess that no one here uses MAC?



Figured we'd have a few members who use MAC and have some suggestions on things they like vs. don't.

Powerbook vs. Macbook? Likes, dislikes? Heat issues? Speed issues/limits etc..? If the notebook needs service, which is easier to work on? (Dell Latitudes are generally 'easier' then Inspirons for how they are packed).

Pro just give you a wider LCD correct?

JDMurray

There's certainly quite a bit of "Mac talk" on podcasts, like those of Leo Laporte (www.twit.tv), The Mac ReviewCast (www.techpodcasts.com/affiliate.php?id=25), and CNet (bol.cnet.com). Also search Leo Laporte's Wiki at http://www.leo.am. He's a big Mac guy.

leefdaddy

I own one of the new Intel Macbooks... 13.3 inch screen it's a nice little laptop... runs windows too although I mainly use osx on it just to learn all the quirks about it.

all my desktops are windows based however.

Plantwiz

jdmurray wrote:

There's certainly quite a bit of "Mac talk" on podcasts, like those of Leo Laporte (www.twit.tv), The Mac ReviewCast (www.techpodcasts.com/affiliate.php?id=25), and CNet (bol.cnet.com). Also search Leo Laporte's Wiki at http://www.leo.am. He's a big Mac guy.

Thanks JD, I haven't seen a show with Leo for several years now and forgotten he was a MAC guy. I'll look more into those sites tonight.



Guess I was sort of hoping someone has some first hand experience between models, maybe sells MACs or something knowing the ins and outs of them of if there is really no difference and they are ALL good or all crappy?

Leefdaddy, thanks for the comments. Why did you select Macbook? For the cost? I'm sort of looking at them as my segway into MAC because they are a bit less expensive. Not sure if I'd be disappointed by not having a Powerbook or if by merely adding more ram the Macbook will be more then enough for what I want to work with.

I've enjoyed Leo's comments from way back, so I'll give his site a look around.

ajs1976

Do you have any Mac Outfitter stores in your area? You could go and play for a little while and maybe get some ideas.

Gabe7055

Maybe take a look at the Mac minis? I have a G4 one and I love it. really good and cheap way to get into OSX. With a gig of memory you could do everything you talked about as well.

I am about to purchase a iMac with the Intel chip so ya Macs have really won me over. For home use there is nothing better.

Lastly with a Intel Mac and a copy of Windows XP SP2 you can use boot camp and dual boot so you get the best of both worlds.

Plantwiz

Ok,
Looks like the choices are MacBook or MacBook Pro...makes it pretty easy.




I guess I didn't have enough piecings when I entered the store, because none of the youngsters bothered to notice I wanted a little assistance. Guess MAC people don't need new customers as it was the same type of treatment I had some 20 years earlier when I used to be an Apple owner.

Oh well, just for that when I go to buy I'll order from one of my vendors and they won't get the sale



Parallels - definately the way to go - thanks JD
Thought I was going with MacBook, but now the PRO is looking a little better because it comes in a 15"

The white models in the MacBook are less money and I was eventually told after 20 minutes of no one bothering to help me, leaving and returning that the white are 'cheaper' to make then the black ones. OY VAY!!! Look at the specs, the black ones come with an 80GB HDD not a 60GB HDD....kids.

There was a few other tidbits of misinformation I was handed, but I still want to give MAC a try and maybe oneday leave WIndows for good (or at least in my home environment).

VERY SLICK means to contect to my work compared with using Remote Desktop. Either way the job gets done, but it was pretty cool.

I'll need to get used to the single click silliness as well as a few of the shortcuts I'm familiar with going away, but it should be pretty neat for a little while.

Slight concern about the repeat of the snootiness of treatment. 20+ years ago I wasn't being taken seriously by 40 year old guys trying to sell computers and today I'm not being taken seriously by 20 year old pups. Thank goodness there is on-line ordering!

Plantwiz

Ok, here is a fair question.


Say my MAC Crashes (rare, but it could happen or I get bored and want to break it)......how easily can I reinstall the OS? Pretty stupid question, but is it the same as WIndows/Linux?

Or lets say I want to upgrade my HDD to a large less costly 3rd party HDD from the WAY too expensive MAC Drives? Can I do this pretty easily? OR better is there any reason to think it's done differently then it is with Windows?

blargoe

I was reading some reviews via google search last week on the intel macs and almost none of the parts are intended to be user replacable. You MIGHT be able to upgrade a hard drive.

Plantwiz

blargoe wrote:

I was reading some reviews via google search last week on the intel macs and almost none of the parts are intended to be user replacable. You MIGHT be able to upgrade a hard drive.

If it isn't heat-sealed in to where I'll run the chassis opening it...it can be replaced

I may void my warranty, but I could likely replace it.

Sounds like the MacBooks can have their CPU upgraded (from one of the pups at the store tonight), but who really ever does this? Really, it's the thought with PC users frequently to buy an affordable CPU and then upgrade it later.....well later usually turns into a new MOBO with newer features and new ram and.... so, even if I can upgrade the CPU, I probalby wouldn't. RAM and HDD's are always fair game (IMNSHO).

Slowhand

Plantwiz wrote:

Ok, here is a fair question.


Say my MAC Crashes (rare, but it could happen or I get bored and want to break it)......how easily can I reinstall the OS? Pretty stupid question, but is it the same as WIndows/Linux?

Or lets say I want to upgrade my HDD to a large less costly 3rd party HDD from the WAY too expensive MAC Drives? Can I do this pretty easily? OR better is there any reason to think it's done differently then it is with Windows?

In a word, "no". (To both questions.)

I worked on Macs at a previous job. . . a lot. Macs are the only machines that I've ever seen actually break from a software install. . . permanently. A customer had tried to upgrade to OS X from OS 9 without the proper firmware upgrades. The best the official Apple helpdesk could do, even when we sent it to them was, "the mainboard needs to be replaced." Apparently, those firmware problems can run deep, when the OS doesn't like you. As for reinstalling it when it breaks. . . it can have dire, dire consiquences when things don't go just right, and the way Apple planned it. If something does go south during the restore, there's not much to do to fix it.

No parts are "easily" upgraded on a Mac, and you'll void your Applecare if you try to do any of it yourself. Only Apple recommended parts, or you could fry your system. And, of course, brain surgery seems easy in comparison to opening and taking the system apart. And I'd rather gnaw off my own foot than put a Mac back together again.


My advice, even as a hardcore geek. . . buy the Applecare and use it. Don't open the machine, don't bother upgrading anything but the (recommended) memory, and leave the thing to sink once it begins to break down or when the Mac OS becomes too sophisticated to run on your machine.

Plantwiz

Slowhand wrote:

[....

No parts are "easily" upgraded on a Mac, and you'll void your Applecare if you try to do any of it yourself. Only Apple recommended parts, or you could fry your system. And, of course, brain surgery seems easy in comparison to opening and taking the system apart. And I'd rather gnaw off my own foot than put a Mac back together again.

...

That's not completely true. We just salvadged a HDD from a Mac-Mini, but I didn't do the software re-install, merely got the old drive out and had a client to take care of elsewhere. AND yes, it's working.

Several years back, I've also taken apart and fixed a couple those old bubble i-Mac's when few would touch them.

It can be done, so for someone who services them regularly....I'm a little surprised by your reply.

There hasn't been much difference in hardware over the last couple years as I've sold a variety of parts to other Mac users as well as PC users. At one time there was more of an issue with RAM and KB/Mice etc.. but those days are gone and with the new Intel stuff....I'm guesing they are extinct.

So, while changing a crashed HDD might void the warranty, it is doubtful (in a logical sense) that doing so will render the system DEAD when installing things back to its identitcal MFG state (except for more storage). Just doesn't make sense how that would happen.

But thanks for the comments.


BTW - it was pretty well published that the firmware needed to be updated. Since we sold the software at this time at the store, it was a very well known fact which we included on the customer receipt as a last warning.


**********

I guess what is more important to find out (and I can likely find out Monday when I get back to work) is how does MAC handle 'recovery' disks? Do they actually include the full software? Or is it more like a Dell/HP type 'recovery' disk taking things back to the MFG settings?

JDMurray

The prices Apple charges for memory are outrageous! I understand that Apple is a hardware company and therefore makes money by primarily selling hardware, but I can't believe Apple owners pay those $$$ for only 1GB of RAM. (I have issues with their iPod prices as well.)

Is it possible to add non-Apple memory to a Mac Mini or MacBook Pro without voiding the warranty?

Plantwiz

jdmurray wrote:

Is it possible to add non-Apple memory to a Mac Mini or MacBook Pro without voiding the warranty?

I would hope the MacBook's could be upgraded no problem. When I was in the store they made it seem like I could easily enough add my own ram. Anything would likely void the warranty.

MacMini's...I'd guess probably yes since the way the cover comes off. I'll be looking at the fine print before I Order tomorrow (pretty sure I'm ordering tomorrow, and hopefully I'll know 100%).

I know on the older G3s, G4s, and iMac's we sold a bunch of memory to customers as well as did the installation for those who didn't feel they could do it.