Delphi ?

!30

Hello !

I have a question relating to programing.
Which porgraming language's are used and good to learn.
I learn Pascal in high-school , and myself some C.

I saw that some know Delphi to , but is useful to learn Delphi to ( or Kylix ) , just for making some program's ?
Is Delphi uiseful ? Which programing languages are good to know for sure ? used in big companies ?

Thank's in advance !

bighornsheep

Delphi is object oriented Pascal in very simple terms. So if you know Pascal, it's not hard to pick up Delphi.

C is a good one to know too, but when you say you've learnt it, how in depth did you go? For example, did you read through precedence of C operators? difference between the different loops? Pass by value/reference, memory allocation...Subtle knowledge about those will make other languages very easy to learn and pick up.

Are you planning on studying computers in university? If so, it's very common now adays for professors to teach Java or Visual Basic as a first year educational language. Other common languages you'll come across: C++, Prolog, SmallTalk, Ruby (Ruby on Rails), are all very common programming languages.

In terms of commercial language, well, that's very hard to say. For the most part, I would say, it's Java, however Visual Studio and the .Net architecture really is picking things up, and as I said, languages like Ruby on Rails and SmallTalk has its own market because of how high-level they are. But obviously, C and C++ will in general hold a large market share because of availability and portability.

rcoop

bighornsheep is right on with his comments above.

In my experience, the programming languages that have a wide market are Java (specifically J2EE), .NET (C#, VB.NET), and C++.

With server-side Web Programming you have a few more marketable choices, including JSP, ASP.NET (C#, VB.NET again), and PHP4/5. Although it has been around for a long time, PHP continues to gain tremendous ground, and with the new object-oriented features of v5.x, it's similar C/Java syntax, and plenty of pre-made and free code/components, it has really begun to work its way into corporations that previously thought it was a script-kiddie type of language.

Some other things a marketable programmer should know, "SQL"/Normalization, Regular Expressions, Javascript/Ajax (for Web 2.0 type development), application lifecycle and good testing techniques.

I highly recommend any casual or serious programmer, pick up a copy and read "Code Complete: Second Edition" by Steve McConnell.

Good luck,
RCoop

!30

You saied that Delphi is easy to know , having knwoldge about Pascal.But my question is : do you have to know both of them ?
Per example , if you know Pascal , you can do like evey porgrame in Psscal like in Delphi altough.
I mean is an use to know many languages ( programing languages ).
Yes , you'll tell me , because every language has it's trick's and if you know many you can get easier a job.This is the answer I guess.But let's suposse that your not pressed about a job and you want to know only one programming language in which you can do the most of the porgramms ? What can I choose ? It's C ?
Unix , Linux were rewritten in C so I think C is a powerful language.
Pascal I think is a death language , I don't even hear some job saying we want Pascal programmer's.But I hear about Delphi progammers.I aslo hear that Delphi like Pascal , is not a powerful language like C.
Somone told me that porgramming in C from a Linux/Unix shell is a God thing.
I heard that C++ is some sort of fake look here :

http://homepages.borland.com/ccalvert/Humor/Stroustrup.html

It's on the category : humour , but the guy who show's me the article , has mail the guy in the interwiev and the whole thing is absolutely true , like they saied , who will trust , altough ? So C++ , being just a fake ( for money ) , I think C is a very good language.

I know that many other's like C# , Java are used and programmers get a lot of money , but the thing is which language is the best ( not for the money ) , just for what you can do with it ? It will be C ?

Like bighornsheep say , C and C++ will be for a lot of time , because of their portability and the rest.I mean C coz , Linux wasen't rewitten in C++ , no ?

I mean you can programme in C , from Windows , for Linux , from BSD , but in C# , Java , Delphi , can you programme in Unix ?This thing's are somehow useless .. my idea..

Any comment ?

bighornsheep

!30 wrote:

You saied that Delphi is easy to know , having knwoldge about Pascal.But my question is : do you have to know both of them ?
Per example , if you know Pascal , you can do like evey porgrame in Psscal like in Delphi altough.

You mustn't have had a good computer science teacher before, if you know how to program in one language, there's no reason why you cant write the same program in another, you might have to write it in a different approach because of the language constraint, but essentially, you only need to learn the syntax of another language once you know how to program. Having said that, some languages are better for certain types of programs, for example, you will (almost) never use Java for real-time programming (parallel machines), and you will not use Pascal for database mangagement systems.

!30 wrote:

I mean is an use to know many languages ( programing languages ).
Yes , you'll tell me , because every language has it's trick's and if you know many you can get easier a job.This is the answer I guess.But let's suposse that your not pressed about a job and you want to know only one programming language in which you can do the most of the porgramms ? What can I choose ? It's C ?

Again, programming is a general skill that is developed, once you have that skill set, it's not hard to pick up any language. Programming languages are generally categorized into Low Level, High level, and modern languages.

Low level programming would be VHDL, Intel Assembly and etc. Such languages are harder to transfer from one to another because it's machine dependent.

High level languages would be all of the ones you've mentioned, Pascal, Delphi, C, C++ and etc.

Modern languages are hard to define, but typically you as the programmer will not need to know much about the internals of the language, most house-keeping is done for you, and you only need to work with the program design. ie. Java (some may disagree), SmallTalk, Ruby, and etc.

!30 wrote:

Unix , Linux were rewritten in C so I think C is a powerful language.
Pascal I think is a death language , I don't even hear some job saying we want Pascal programmer's.But I hear about Delphi progammers.I aslo hear that Delphi like Pascal , is not a powerful language like C.
Somone told me that porgramming in C from a Linux/Unix shell is a God thing.
I heard that C++ is some sort of fake look here :

http://homepages.borland.com/ccalvert/Humor/Stroustrup.html

It's on the category : humour , but the guy who show's me the article , has mail the guy in the interwiev and the whole thing is absolutely true , like they saied , who will trust , altough ? So C++ , being just a fake ( for money ) , I think C is a very good language.

I dont believe Unix was written in C, Linux and Windows was probably (originally) written in C, I dont know about now. btw, Linux has different meanings, do you mean the open-source linux? or Linux kernel? or Linux distribution? The kernel was probably written in C.

I dont blame you for thinking that Pascal is a dead language, because it's ideas of programming has changed. There are lots of other choices to do what Pascal can do.

In terms of Pascal programmers, have you ever heard of BEDMAS Specialists? No, you hear titles such as Statistics Analyst, which BEDMAS becomes an essential skill, but you dont get paid a salary for only knowing just that.

To tell you the truth, I dont know what your question is anymore...are you asking about the "best" language, or are you trying to tell me that C is the best language?

No offence, and I mean this in the best possible way. But I think for the time being, the best language you should learn is English.

!30 wrote:

I know that many other's like C# , Java are used and programmers get a lot of money , but the thing is which language is the best ( not for the money ) , just for what you can do with it ? It will be C ?

Like bighornsheep say , C and C++ will be for a lot of time , because of their portability and the rest.I mean C coz , Linux wasen't rewitten in C++ , no ?

I mean you can programme in C , from Windows , for Linux , from BSD , but in C# , Java , Delphi , can you programme in Unix ?This thing's are somehow useless .. my idea..

Any comment ?

You can't compared languages like that, that's like saying a keyboard is the best input device because every computer has it, well how about in restuarants that require touch-screen? Or for graphic designers that uses tablets? Or imagine a first-person shooting game with only the keyboard?

Every language has it's advantages and disadvantages, and as I have said, if you truly know how to program in one language, there is no reason why learning multiple will be difficult.

!30

You mustn't have had a good computer science teacher before

If I get you right , I can tell you that knowing Pascal from high-school , it was easy for me to get the bascis for : C , C++ , PHP , Perl.Why ? Because I think Pascal is some sort of basic.Like you say , if you know one language it's very easy for you to learn another one.

I dont believe Unix was written in C

Unix was first written in Low level programming first , but then C comed some think especially for rewritening Unix in C.

Linux distribution's are written 90 % in C and a little 10 % or less in ASM.Per example the bootloader is written in ASM , but the most of programms that come with Linux distro's are written in C.Gaim is written in C per example , Linux kernel was written in C.

Pascal is for me a dead language , because is not so portable like other's language's like C and it's not so powerful like other's.
For example , our teacher's at informatic's in 3 year's present us Pascal like being some sort of translating math operation's on a computer.We did some sort like a+b , backtracking and a lot of thing's that haven't show me some power of Pascal.Pascal appear many many years ago and some language's today are more more powerful that Pascal is now.This is what I'm trying to say.

To tell you the truth, I dont know what your question is anymore..

I'm asking which programing language is the most powerful and will rezist decades later.In what programing language I can writte most of the program's I need .

My final conclusion is that you don't have to know all this language's .Why knowning Pascal and Delphi if you can do same thing in C ?

TheShadow

bighornsheep wrote:

I dont believe Unix was written in C, Linux and Windows was probably (originally) written in C, I dont know about now. btw, Linux has different meanings, do you mean the open-source linux? or Linux kernel? or Linux distribution? The kernel was probably written in C.

Interesting discussion. I don't want to intrude but just to add some sauce to the goose. I learned C from the first printing of K & R's excellent book describing the original C and to quote from the history of C in that book

The justification for obtaining the original computer to be used in developing the Unix operating system was to create a system to automate the filing of patents. The original version of the Unix system was developed in assembly language. Later, the entire operating system was rewritten in C, an unprecedented move at a time when nearly all operating systems were written in assembly.
By 1973, the C language had become powerful enough that most of the Unix kernel, originally written in PDP-11 assembly language, was rewritten in C. This was one of the first operating system kernels implemented in a language other than assembly. (Earlier instances include the Multics system (written in PL/I), and MCP (Master Control Program) for Burroughs B5000 written in ALGOL in 1961.)

rcoop

!30,

C is a powerful language, but lacks the fundamental improvements of object-oriented software design, and thus the reason for the development and popularity of the C++ language (and its variants, Objective-C, C#, and although loosely Java).

To be both marketable now and in the future you will need to continue learning and building on actual real life experiences with creating software using the languages. IMHO, you would get a good foundation in software construction, by not only learning a good object-oriented mainstream language, such as C++ or Java, but UML and object oriented design, software deployment (building installers and understanding moving your software from development-to-test-to-production), software quality assurance techniques (SQA), and an understanding of application product lifecycles.

IMO, if you focus primarily on C development you will miss the foundation and experience critical in a majority of modern mainstream languages... but you will be able to write some really tight and fast code!

There was a great article in Information Week about the CEO of software firm that taught himself programming (hand writing the code) in the library of Kuwait University where he worked, then moved to Pakistan where he had some more experiences, and then eventually to the U.S. where he has become quite successful. A great and inspiring story, and if I can find a link to it on the web, I'll post it (or at least the issue it was published in and the CEO's name and company info).

Best of luck in all of your pursuits!
--RCoop

rcoop

The article was an interview with Razi Imam who is President and CEO of Landslide.

I think this URL should get you there:
http://www.informationweek.com/showArticle.jhtml;jsessionid=B0KLGGCD3UIRYQSNDLRSKH0CJUNN2JVN?articleID=192501065&queryText=Kuwait+Pakistan

I know this is an international site and possibly some readers have a bias against the U.S., but these stories are not the exception, the United States is full of opportunities for those who wish to work hard, get an education, and are innovators! {not to start any my country is better than your country flame wars here... I know the U.S. has problems}

Take Care,
RCoop