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DW [banned]DW [banned] Posts: 240Inactive Imported Users
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  • Paul BozPaul Boz Posts: 2,621Member
    I think that's all great handy stuff, but I believe the best way to be truly competent regarding routing and switching is to start with a very strong base, comprised of a fundamental understanding of the DoD and OSI model, routing protocol theory (why using one is better than another and how they work), subnetting, and many of the other ideas and concepts that just can't be crammed into a few labs. You said you want to have your classes at a 70/30 hands on to theory level, but I think that it should be the other way around. What good is showing someone how to interact with a router if they don't know anything about the routing protocols or network addressing scheme that is in place? Classes that are designed to churn out CCNAs in a few weeks are why the certification is so over saturated by people that can "function on a CCNA level" but can't do much else.

    I've looked over and used plenty of material when studying for my CCNA, but the Lammle book seems to be the most logically laid out, because it assumes that you know absolutely nothing about networking and builds on that. You don't even see IOS until the middle of the book, and WAN stuff is only in the last chapter.

    How long are your classes going to be? How many will there be?

    Sorry if I sound like a jerk, I just don't believe in or agree with "boot camp" style courses because the CCNA/CCDA are the fundamental base of one's entire concept of routing and switching and it's worth spending good time on.
    CCNP | CCIP | CCDP | CCNA, CCDA
    CCNA Security | GSEC |GCFW | GCIH | GCIA
    [email protected]
    http://twitter.com/paul_bosworth
    Blog: http://www.infosiege.net/
  • DW [banned]DW [banned] Posts: 240Inactive Imported Users
    Too much me in it.
  • PashPash Posts: 1,601Member
    If this course is for IT professionals (which you mentioned) who already have a few entries under experience on their cv's then I would say this is a perfect choice of balance for the course.

    As they would gain more knowledge about how to really use the "hands on" in real world scenarios.

    And I also think there is a balance to consider also...I mean there will be people who wan't the ccna cert to try and show some competency in his/her job role. I understand someone of your experience might argue that having a ccna doesnt show competency.......but if that is true then maybe cisco need to look at what the blueprints really teach or maybe it is down the the employers to filter out those who appear to be these infamous "paper certs" by offering more technical type interviews. But thats a whole other discussion as we know :p

    But in retrospective I would of prefered a few more tidbits in the labs to make it all come together nicely. So keep at that route.

    Goodluck Darby anyhow.
    DevOps Engineer and Security Champion. https://blog.pash.by - I am trying to find my writing style, so please bear with me.
  • DW [banned]DW [banned] Posts: 240Inactive Imported Users
    Thanks Pash,
  • Paul BozPaul Boz Posts: 2,621Member
    See the difference between your class and what people typically consider a "ccna class" is that your class isn't so much a "ccna class" but a "introduction to sound network technologies and practices" class. The majority of the stuff you mentioned (configuring a router to act as a DHCP host) isn't even a part of the CCNA. It's handy but out of the scope of the exam. I like the ideas that you have and I would be comfortable hiring someone that took your classes. Just remember not to deviate too far from the CCNA core curriculum if you do the fast class route because people will get overly saturated.

    I like the idea of a two year program far more than a two week program. The two week programs teach you how to memorize then quickly forget stuff once you have the paper cert. I work for a service provider and feel HORRIBLE for the interviewees that come here trying to get a job with a CCNA in hand, then get blown to bits by the network admin that's doing the hiring, because they can't even connect to a router console port. These are the types of people that spend two weeks in a class to get their cert and have no clue what they're doing. You want to avoid feeding that stigma of the certification because people with paper certs truly ruin what the certification is supposed to stand for and mean to those who really did spend the time learning the material.
    CCNP | CCIP | CCDP | CCNA, CCDA
    CCNA Security | GSEC |GCFW | GCIH | GCIA
    [email protected]
    http://twitter.com/paul_bosworth
    Blog: http://www.infosiege.net/
  • KaminskyKaminsky Posts: 1,235Member
    From my experience in other areas of IT support, 1-2 week boot camps are best for those who have already done most of the background theory work for the cert already before they arrive and need someone to look over their shoulder for a while. I've seen many people sent on courses by companies for 1-2 week and then fail miserably at the exam at the end of the camp simply because there was just too much to cram in and understand.

    I have read through what your proposing and it sounds great with someone of your background showing the ropes properly but for a very short course, unless they come very prepared it could end up leaving them with a sour taste in their mouths and from that, a lack of verbal recomendations within their company afterward which could have cause a marketting problem.

    I'm not knocking it. I think it's a brilliant idea but it sounds as if you really want to pass on your knowledge to make proper networking engineers rather than a lot of those other boot camps where they don't care if you know your stuff or not by then end of it.

    I am still studying for my CCNA and as I started with just a passing knowledge in networking theory, I have found that there is an awfull lot to learn in the CCNA.
    Kam.
  • DW [banned]DW [banned] Posts: 240Inactive Imported Users
    Thanks everyone.

    Perhaps the best route is to try to keep it simple.

    :)
  • optimusoptimus Posts: 183Member
    Yeah bro, you have to keep it simple. You are a goliath, and I just a baby trying to learn to walk. It is a great course though, just don't put a "CCNA" label on it. It is beyond CCNA......

    - Optimus
  • mikej412mikej412 Posts: 10,090Member
    You could tape it and sell it to MTV -- and they could air it as Real World CCNA.
    :mike: Cisco Certifications -- Collect the Entire Set!
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