On Call Compensation.

imfrom51

OK, here's the deal. I have to be on call pretty much 24/7/365. The IT dept I work in has 10 people which is split up into 2 areas. The area I work in HAS to be on call (as we look after the Prison and 911 pcs which are 24/7)There are only 2 of us. Up until this point, no-one has EVER got any kind of pay for being on call.

So I am going to the boss to discuss this.

This is what I have in mind thus far.

What is required
On call 24/7/365
Expected to remain in the local area while wearing the pager. (within 1 hour drive)
Have to respond and, if necessary, drive into work to resolve issues.
IT staff has pager for approx 2 weeks per month.

Issues:
Difficult to make any plans, as may be called in at any time.
Eg: One time I had to come in on my vacation to help resolve a problem in MC. (last year)
Quote ”When you can't be free to do what you want when you are out of work, there has to be compensation”

What could be done.
(Getting paid for on call is a very common scenario in the IT field.)
$250 per week i
$2 per hour between the hours of 5pm and 8am.
$3 per hour and if called in, time and a half.
$2.50 per hour between 5pm and 8am.
(the above rates are from 4 friends who are on call and get paid for it)

Why
it's getting to be a burden now, because I want to do so many things, but I can't.

Any suggestions? Advice. I have been here 18mths, but only on call for about the last 6mths

Thanks

SRTMCSE

worth a shot but don't get your hopes up. being on call is the norm for most of us. i never had to be on call at my last job since it wasn't a 24/7 business, but at my new job (a nursing home) i'm on call for 7 days every 4 weeks, no extra pay. hard to get extra $$ when you were hired knowing you'd be put on call, it's kinda "built-in" to your salary.

Smallguy

my job is changing as of tomorrow and I'll be required ot be on call 1 week a month....I'm getting 150.00 for it

it;s not the best because I know some peopel who get paid their full salary when on call and double itme if called in.

but I think you mgiht as well try even thugh i tihk your boss will find those numbers high if they've never paid for on call before

garv221

Are you currently salary? I am on call 24/7/365, its a given considering my position. I don't think anyone could pay me enough to be within one hour driving distance and carry a pager. My life is more important.

imfrom51

Thanks for all the advice.

I am salary, but right at the bottom of the pay scale. In fact I was under the pay range for my position, so they raised my salary.

Smallguy, Thanks for the info on what you are getting.

Really, when you think about it, I support critical applications and hardware. Who wants 911 to go down? When they call, it's drop everything and run. This is another reason why I figure there should be compensation. It's not like, "hey, I forgot my email password". These are the most important services in the county.

Kaminsky

See this thread. Discusses exactly what you are asking.

http://www.techexams.net/forums/viewtopic.php?p=121617#121617

SRTMCSE

garv221 wrote:

Are you currently salary? I am on call 24/7/365, its a given considering my position. I don't think anyone could pay me enough to be within one hour driving distance and carry a pager. My life is more important.

i have to agree here. even when i'm on call there is no requirement to be within one hour or anything (matter of fact I live an hour from our closest location, our furthest is 2 hours away, haha). most problems that arise don't require me to come in, no one here has had to come in in the past 2 years. if something huge happened (disaster level stuff that brought the business to a screeching halt) then I'd come in but most stuff there are continuity plans in place that could hold us over until the morning.

like garv221 my life is more important than any job, I got a fiancee and a baby girl who I wouldn't miss out on for anything. just the stress and time put in to studying for certs and school kills me as it is, having all those requirements on me would be the last straw.

sprkymrk

SRTMCSE wrote:

garv221 wrote:

Are you currently salary? I am on call 24/7/365, its a given considering my position. I don't think anyone could pay me enough to be within one hour driving distance and carry a pager. My life is more important.

like garv221 my life is more important than any job, I got a fiancee and a baby girl who I wouldn't miss out on for anything. just the stress and time put in to studying for certs and school kills me as it is, having all those requirements on me would be the last straw.

I understand what you guys are saying when it comes to "I forgot my password" or "I can't print", but the OP is talking about 911 systems. You know, so like when your girlfriend, fiance or baby need an ambulance or firetruck you'd sure not like to hear a voice on the other end saying "sorry for the inconvenience, but our systems are currently down. We have entered a trouble ticket to our support people and they should be addressing the problem as soon as they arrive at 9AM tomorrow morning. Please try back later."

imfrom51

Thanks sprkymrk. I am going to use that reasoning with the boss.

But what is sad is that I have had to even come in for some basic stuff if its a high ranking officer. When that happens I'm like "What am I doing?" But as it's been like this (no on call pay) for, I guess, years, having all this information is really making me feel well prepared.

I will be talking to the boss on Monday, so any further advice/comments would be great.

Thanks again to everyone.[/quote]

garv221

You are salary because this topic was covered for this position long before you held it. If I were in your shoes, I would ask if it is possible to receive pay for being on call. Stress the main reason being you cannot leave the area, thus you have no personal life during this time. You are at the bottom of the pay scale -if he says no, start looking for another job.

When you do find another job, come to work with a boom box and your bare chest painted in black letters "I quit" like that guy from you tube.

TechJunky

Personally if I know the position requires on call, the first thing I ask is what is the compensation. Think of this as a learning curve. We have all been there. If they state there is not an on call incentive I always ask for 10k more yearly than what I thought originally to cover my time for possible on call situations.

It all depends how much of a dollar amount you put on your personal life. Some dont have a personal life and will work for no compensation.

This all comes down to a personal decision.

imfrom51

When I first got the job I asked about the hours. (at the time I needed the job as only my wife was working and I needed the job). Here is an excerpt from the email that I sent when I got the job (Glad I saved this email)

Me
Dear XX

Thanks again for the opportunity to work with you and XXXXX. I have one quick question. What are the hours??

Thanks

Response:

We work 8:00 am. - 5:00 We do occasionally have to work over or come in at unscheduled times. Not often.

So it was stated at the beginning that there would be some extra work. But its WAY more than what was alluded to.
I guess I should have been more aggressive about this up front. Oh well, you live and learn.

borumas

My first question is did you know this was an oncall position when you got the job, from what I read it doesn't seem so. If you were not hired as an on call technician then you have a very legit gripe with the boss. I'm getting in a similar situation but I haven't had to confront the boss yet, I was not hired as an oncall tech, I worked here for 3 years and never had to take a pager home and now with this boss he wants us to take them home in case he needs to call us for outages or whatnot. I don't take my pager home and I will not, I'm not on salary and being oncall was never part of my job description. I'm ready for when it comes down to it to tell the boss that he needs to change our job descriptions if he wants us to basically be oncall so we can push for a raise for compensation.

imfrom51

This was not an on call position when I first started. But I think that it always was. It just took me some time to get into the rotation. I figure that when my boss thought that I could handle the "responsibility", that's when I was given the pager. But, as I said, at first it was said that I would only be called in rarely.

I guess that if it was rare, I wouldn't have a problem. Like, if they called me and I could come it (sitting at home watching tv) it wouldn't be a real issue.

But, for example, I was paged as a group of us headed off for a gig. When the pager went off, man, you should have seen everyones faces. Fortunately, I didn't have to go in, but that could have easily gone the other way and ruined a great night for nothing.

borumas

imfrom51 wrote:

This was not an on call position when I first started. But I think that it always was. It just took me some time to get into the rotation. I figure that when my boss thought that I could handle the "responsibility", that's when I was given the pager. But, as I said, at first it was said that I would only be called in rarely.

I guess that if it was rare, I wouldn't have a problem. Like, if they called me and I could come it (sitting at home watching tv) it wouldn't be a real issue.

But, for example, I was paged as a group of us headed off for a gig. When the pager went off, man, you should have seen everyones faces. Fortunately, I didn't have to go in, but that could have easily gone the other way and ruined a great night for nothing.

Sounds like you have a legit reason to ask for some compensation for being oncall then. You may want to carefully consider your arguments for getting compensation for the oncall work and list them out before going to the boss about it, and also let him know that those major details about being oncall were not in your job description when you were hired.

Kaminsky

garv221 wrote:

-if he says no, start looking for another job.

I doubt whether your boss will refuse but if he does, I totally agree with Garv and don't be afraid to follow it through either.

However if you have less than 2 years experience in IT and depending on how easily you can get another job, you may just have to swallow it until you do have that golden 2 years and put the time until then as a learning experience. Not every boss is reasonable and fair in this industry. Some are downright power mad slave drivers. You either take it from them or vote with your feet and give them the hasstle of going through the hiring process for someone else.

I would think you should be ok though considering the constant proximity thing.

imfrom51

Well, I spoke to my boss this morning and things went very well. At least the meeting did.

I told her all of my concerns and she is going to speak to the I.T director and HR on Friday. Due to the fact that I work for the county, it's a little complicated. Because I am what they call exempt (salary) and not hourly, I can not get any on call pay. So my boss is going to try to get my position grade raised so that I can get a pay raise which works for me. Basically, she feels that, as we have to be on call, this is a higher level of responsibility than those who are not on call. That being the case, we should be at a higher pay grade, seeing that we have more under our belts. It's not a matter that we KNOW more, it's a matter of a higher level of responsibility.

So that's about it............................so far.

Here's a hoping!!!!

Thoughts/comments?[/i]

Kaminsky

imfrom51 wrote:

Because I am what they call exempt (salary) and not hourly, I can not get any on call pay. So my boss is going to try to get my position grade raised

Sorry for casting a cinical note but that sounds like a load of rubbish to me. I can see it coming back with the director not having the budget this year, blah, blah, blah... for whatever reason.

However, as she has agreed about the deserved higher pay for higher responsibility, if they go down this route then you can come back with "well... as I am not getting paid to do the higher responsibility work, I won't be doing the higher responsibility work... Period!" (be nice about it though. Nice but matter of fact)

I hope I am wrong and they are above board on this but this smells very fishy to me. Keep your witts about you on this one or you'll find yourself hoodwinked by management into getting you doing the work for no extra pay.

Then again, I'm very old and jaded!

imfrom51

Kaminsky, thanks for the input. Sounds like you know how county works (budgets and all):D
I will be nice about it, but I will let them know in no uncertain terms that if I don't get anything, then I won't be going on call. My boss seems really on the up and up, and, we are all meeting with the director and HR on Friday. I'm not sure what will happen. Everything I have asked for in the past, I have got. So they must like me. They know that I never ask for anything above what I feel I should receive.

Well, let's see what happens.

Trailerisf

I work for a small consulting company. We get calls at all hours. We don't support any "mission critical" 24hr companies.

Yet, people find the need to call me at midnight and ask why their Yahoo.com web page takes twice as long to open? Uh, ever heard of a backup? They have to run at some time. Sorry your network is slow, but we need to run backups.

The nature of the industry is that we are robots without lives or feelings. Its okay to scream at us because your computer doesn't work. It is my fault you spilt coffee on your laptop. I am supposed to be in your office and fix the problem within 5 minutes of your call at 3am.

All this is standard from the clients/end users, until you hand them a bill for it. Everyone expects it, but no one actually values it.

Should you get pay for being on call? Sure.
Hourly?? -- I think salary is standard. My friends just bank the hours and take them as vacation instead.

I think you got moved into the position without compensation. You did the right thing by asking for more money. The way you did it was good. Don't demand the increase. If they say no, just explain to them that it doesnt make sense for you to continue this way. Don't say you are looking for another job. They will know. If they want you to stay, they will offer more money.

imfrom51

Well, here it is.

I just had a meeting with my boss, who had a meeting with the director on Friday. My boss put up a good fight and put forth all the points. Basically the Director said no. He said that they cannot pay us any more, cannot put me up a pay grade ( as this would put me above people who have been here longer than me). All we can do is come in an hour later or leave an hour later each day, to "make up" the fact that we are on call. That's it!

I told my boss I was not happy with this resolution (and she said that she was not happy too). I said that, just because someone who has been here for years, couldn't be bothered to fight for more pay, I would lose out. She said, that's basically it. We are going to start logging all the "on call" calls but, I won't see any pay increase for at least a year!

So I have to start looking for another job. I really like it here, but the pay sucks and this has just added to the situation.

Thanks for all the input over the last week. It really helps.

Sorry for casting a cinical note but that sounds like a load of rubbish to me. I can see it coming back with the director not having the budget this year, blah, blah, blah... for whatever reason

Dead Right!

garv221

I am sorry but find another job if you are not happy. One thing I totally disagree with is pay by seniority. I believe pay is measured solely by the work performed not how long someone has been with a company. That is to liberal for me and creates an environment where people believe they are entitled to things they did not work for or deserve. If you are like me then you need an environment where the people who work hard and are dedicated are rewarded, not pushed into a low pay bracket and held back by those who simply punch in and out each day. Move on asap.

buchatech

Hello,

I was just on call for my first time at my new job. for one week. We get $25 per call. Duplicate calls do not count. I heard from guys that where at my job before I got here that
there was a $250 cap. They did away with the cap to make us techs be able to bear being on call.

imfrom51

I am sorry but find another job if you are not happy

Thanks garv221, thats what I am going to do. I feel the same as you about being payed "by the work performed". I realize that I cannot get any kind of promotion or pay raise as there are people above me that will get those positions just because they have been here longer.

So now the hunt is on.

Kaminsky

I'm sorry I was proved right on this. I really am you obviously like it there.

However, I've seen it many times with others and indead I suffered like this for many years and to be honest, it really isn't worth it. Sure we all feel loyalty to where we work if we enjoy it there but you have to be realistic these days with bills flying at you in every direction. You have to put food on the table just as much as your director does.

My friend has a job with a company where his first year they sent him on 46 days training and then he got a pay review on the back of his new knowledge. Last year he had interviews with personnel and got another 46 days worth of training and another pay hike and a higher level job within the company in the field he was interested in on the back of that personnel interview. All staff go through the same process apparantly. The pay is great too. He is now waiting till April when he gets his next set of staff appraisal interviews and probably another bunch of courses and qualifications. He says all the staff at this company are really motivated and at the top of their game because of the approach of the personnel department. Not many leave and the company just keeps making more and more money.

If you contrast this with a narrow minded, scrimping on every penny approach then your staff arn't motivated and your business is stagnent and your staff turnover is a constant excercise.

I have another friend at the other end of the spectrum where he finally managed to get his IT director to pay for a weeks ITIL training for him but personnel wouldn't pay for the hotel and expenses. Not even a bed and breakfast or travel so the money for the course was lost as it was to late to cancel.

Sorry for the long reply but just wanted to explain that not all companys are the same and some really know how to runa business to make money.

I am not disclosing the name of the good company. At least not until I have a job there

imfrom51

It's so crazy how people can be so tight, and then wonder why they have a high turnover of people. The management here are always on some kind of training course, but they never seem to change their thoughts or attitudes.

So, at the moment the bills are getting paid. I guess all I was after was a little appreciation for the work that I do. I see that I won't be getting it here.

It's a county job, with a huge amount of office politics. The guy I work with has been here a year longer than me, but has a lot less experience in IT. But the fact that he has a BA (in chemistry) and has been here longer, he is next in line to get promoted. They don't want to hurt anyones feelings. It really doesn't incite me to work harder. I do what I am told, grease the wheels that I can, and learn, learn learn.

Sorry for the incomprehensible ravings

Oh, and Kaminsky. are you sure you don't want to give up that name? !

tech_tony

We were informed we will have to start being on call. Boss said we have to stay in town and be available. This is a so called new policy as we have never had to be on call. Our helpdesk would just call a list of people until they got in touch with someone.

So if we are required to be in town is this time we get compensated for? If so at what rate?

Thanks

Kaminsky

You need to get it in concrete whether you are going to be paid for this availability and any work you do if you are the one that answers and has to do some work in your own time.

Think of it this way.

When you first joined the company you signed a contract of employment which is a legal document stating what you will do and what they will do. It's a contract like any other.

Now, if they want to make changes to that contract it has to be agreed with you and should theoretically be resigned. Most contracts of employment have clauses mentioning future changes but this doesn't make them legal. If the changes are "unreasonable" such as you never being allowed away from town then that is just plain rediculous and any small claims court would throw it out, laughing at it as it went.

Unfortunatly, it is a thing that happens to most managers at some point where they think they actually "own" their employees and can make them do anything they like. I have had several IT managers slapped back into line by the personnel department when they have overstepped the mark with me. Not bullying or anything like that but just demanding unreasonable expectations as in your case.

The simple way to do it if they are not going to pay you is nobody aswer the phone if it rings. If you all do that, they will get the message.

If you are "On Call" and being paid a supplement for that out of hours availability, then that is what you get from the contract change. You staying close enough to get in to fix problems when the phone goes off is what they get from the contract for that period of time.

It is upto you and your colleagues if you want to put up with the management. You would all be better if you stuck together though.


Oh and btw, I got that job with that good company so I will let you know how that goes.

imfrom51

Great to hear you got the job. It's funny, but I had an interview this week, right out of the blue. I put in the application, and totally forgot about it. Then last Friday they called and said they wanted to meet me on the Monday. It went well and they said they would probably call this week or sometime next week. It's a great opportunity, and plus the pay is starting out about $15,000 more than what I am making now.

I let you know what happens.

tech_tony

I have been with this company 23 years and have held various jobs. Never signed a contract way back when. We have gone to our HR dept. and we are waiting for them to research it. Lucky for me I was on vacation when they made the announcement so I have not yet been told have only heard it from co-workers. My question when they tell me will be can I see the Company Policy on this in writing. Fairly large Company so I know they do not have an on-call policy and if so it would not just be for one Dept.

Kaminsky

I don't think you will need to. If it's gone to HR for investigation your halfway there theoretically. If HR come back negatively then you can start fighting back. However, if HR come back favourably then they have done the work for you and you and your team are sitting pretty.