Odd DSL Problem

Stan27

I hate to be asking a certification forum about my problems, but I know you guys know what you're talking about, so here I go...

A person is having problems staying connected with her DSL connection.
Using only a modem with the telco's official PPPoE program.

The internet connection randomly disconnects. The only way to keep it on is to be connected to AOL or to talk on the phone(no idea what's up with that).

She mentioned a "ghost internet explorer icon" and some strange error messages, so I'm thinking virus or adware or some other crap like that.

She's sure filters are on and correct. It got fixed once, but it started happening again. Numerous telco people have found no problems.


If you guys could throw some ideas at me, that would be great. Thanks.

sprkymrk

I think somewhere deep in the bowels of the modem properties is a setting for idle disconnect. It's been a while since I used an internal dsl modem which is where I remember having the same problem. I'm not sure if the same setting exists on an external dsl modem. Mine was an intel, but don't remember the model number.

malcybood

Yeah sparkymrk is correct, you should check the properties of the dial up modem.

Control Panel - Network Connections - right click on dial up connection and select properties.

Select the Options tab

There should be an option that reads "Idle time before hang up" - I have mine set to Never but this is user pref and it's important that their AV is up to date. You can set it for hours/minutes etc too

The above is based on an analogue line dial up connection but should be pretty much the same for an ADSL modem.

JDMurray

Does it disconnect while she is using it, or after she has been away from the computer for a while? If only after the connection has been idle for a while, then it is probably the idle setting as these guys are saying. If you can't find the modem's idle setting, changing the anti-virus to check for updates every hour usually fixes this problem too by keeping the connection minimally active.

If it disconnects even while she is using it, it may be just a natural problem with PPPoE (or PPPoA with BellSouth) and her ISP. The use of either of these dial-up protocols is an indication that the ISP is using old equipment on their end, and such equipment (modem banks) is sensitive to even minor line problems, which often causes the customer to become disconnected. Such disconnection are often seasonally-related and caused by extreme temperatures or wet weather.

From what I read, occasional disconnects is the biggest complain with PPPoE and PPPoA, and it doesn't surprise me that a Telco tech would not mention this possibility, as the only way to fix it is a massive hardware upgrade on their end to get rid of the need for PPPoE/A by replacing the modem banks with DSLAM units at each Central Office and (possibly) upgrading the DSL modems of every customer (expensive!).

sprkymrk

jdmurray wrote:

If you can't find the modem's idle setting, changing the anti-virus to check for updates every hour usually fixes this problem too by keeping the connection minimally active.

Nice idea - useful tip for other purposes as well probably.

JDMurray

I remember a long time ago downloading and using a "keep alive" program that simply pinged an Internet DNS server every five minutes to keep your ISP from disconnecting your connection for idling too long. I assumed the need for these programs had vanished, but I guess not while PPPoE/A is still in use.

Stan27

These modems have no configurations, and I doubt it's an ISP problem because the whole city uses this provider, and nobody has this specific problem.

malcybood, the settings are controlled by the ISP's program, but as far as I can tell, it cuts out while in use.

I forgot to ask how she gets it to go back on...

I'm going there on Saturday, I guess I'll bring a replacement modem to check. The ISP has been using these new modems/routers, and they really suck.

I'm still leaning towards some type of bad-stuff-ware or virus, but I can't think of any solutions as to what it's trying to do.

Thanks for all the ideas, guys, if you have any more, please tell me.

malcybood

Stan,

Even if the modem is controlled by this extra software, there should still be a dial up connection in Control Panel - Network connections? No? I thought the management software on the CD is for installing the drivers as it is a USB device and putting a fluffy "User friendly interface" on the machine to manage the USB device.

You get the same with routers where you are supplied with a CD for easy setup and management but if you want you can just ignore the CD and go to the default IP address i.e. http://192.168.1.1 and configure it manually.

The first thing to do is find out make/model of the modem so we know what we are working with. I'd google the model and "disconnects". Also check that her AV definitions are up to date.

Some troubleshooting tips etc for ADSL connections at the below link. This is for a provider, Plusnet in the UK but if you google your modem model as suggested above or go to the providers website they should have some kind of support page that suggests what to look for when a connection is dropping

http://usertools.plus.net/tutorials/id/10

I've found 3 different ISP support pages on this type of problem when I done a Google search.

Good luck, let us know how it works out or let us know more info after you visit on sat if you're still stuck.

Malc

Stan27

Nope, the way they have it set up, there is no connection in the network settings.

I doubt she uses and AV at all...

I'll tell you guys how it goes tomorrow.

JDMurray

Stan27 wrote:

Nope, the way they have it set up, there is no connection in the network settings.

Search for the make and model of the DSL modem on Google and get its user manual. There is typically a Web interface in the modem at an address like http://192.168.0.1. This is where the modem's settings are configured. It's possible that the ISP make have a password set on the settings page, but most likely not.

Stan27 wrote:

I doubt she uses and AV at all...

Have her install the Grisoft AVG Free Edition, although I don't know if you can configure it to check for updates hourly. If not, maybe Grisoft's free AVG Spyware scanner product on the same Web page does.

Stan27

I had no Idea you could configure a modem like you would a router.

It turned out to be nothing more than a phone plugged into the DSL jack of the filter. She blamed it on her husband, saying he moved one of the phones.

I still don't understand how this could happen, and why being on the phone would make her DSL work. If anyone could explain, I'd be really grateful.

I did point her towards AVG before I left, but she doesn't seem like the type who would use something like that regularly.

Thanks for all the help, guys!

JDMurray

DSL signals are sent over the telephone wires between the residence and the local Central Office (these wires are called the local loop). A residence must be no more than three miles from the Central Office for DSL to work. The quality of the DSL signal--or if DSL works at all--is therefore very dependent on the physical quality and condition of the lines in the local loop and any interference that may be present on the lines (e.g., electrical noise, cross-talk).

DSL filters are actually used to protect all telephone equipment from the very high frequency signals used by DSL (26kHz to 1.1mHz) that is present on the telephone lines when the DSL modem is on. The filters do not allow the DSL signals to reach the telephones equipment connected to the same lines. (For this reason, a DSL modem is never attached to a DSL filter.) The presence of telephones, fax machines, etc. on the lines can possibly cause the DSL signal to become distorted and unusable by the DSL modem. The signals generated by the telephone equipment itself (1 to 4kHz) does not bother DSL modems.

It seems unlikely that a telephone attached to a DSL filter would cause a problem with a DSL modem when the phone was on-hook, but off-hook there would be no problem. The first thing I would suspect is a bad DSL filter, or possibly bad wiring or corrosion on that telephone jack. I have heard of really bad local wiring causing a DSL modem to drop its connection when the telephone rang, but never from going on-hook.

I'm glad you found the problem!

Stan27

I didn't know that filters were used to protect the equipment, I just thought they sent the right frequencies down the right side.

Thanks again.

JDMurray

The filters don't actually protect the telephone equipment in the sense that the high-frequency signals will damage the telephone's electronics. The "protection" is in keeping the higher frequency DSL signals from reaching the equipment so the telephone's electronics don't distort the DSL signal. It's more accurate to say that the filters "isolate" the DSL signal from the telephone equipment to protect the signal's integrity by allowing only the low-frequency signals (1-4kHz) on the loop to reach the telephone equipment (i.e., the DSL filters are low-pass filters).

Modern telephone wiring and equipment usually does not require the use of DSL filters, as it simply does not interfere with the DSL signal. When I install DSL in a premise, I always try it first without filters in case they are not needed. If it works, I tell the owner to only use an in-line DSL filter on new phone equipment if their DSL connectivity become unstable after the new phone was added. Sometimes adding a DSL filter to (or just unplugging) that football phone you got from Judy at Time Magazine back in the 1980's will solve all of your DSL problems.

Stan27

Here I thought that filters were essential because that's all the support people at the phone company talk about(that and turning off your modem for 30 seconds).

I can see that they do this to make it easier, but it's cool to learn something new like that.

I was messing around with some DSL modems today, and sure enough, they all had quite a bit of configuration options. I guess that's why I don't see a PPPoE connection in the network connections, the program controls the modem.

Thanks for all the information!