University of Phoenix article in the New York Times

JDMurray

This is a very interesting article on the University of Phoenix from the New York Times. I've heard a lot of very good to very bad things about the UofP, but never knew anyone who actually attended classes or received a degree. Some of the complaints in this article are of how online learning programs naturally are, but other claims are disturbing:

"The university says that its graduation rate, using the federal standard, is 16 percent, which is among the nation’s lowest, according to Department of Education data. The official [graduation] rates at some University of Phoenix campuses are extremely low — 6 percent at the Southern California campus, 4 percent among online students..."

"About 95 percent of instructors are part-time, according to federal statistics, compared with an average of 47 percent across all universities."

“Their business degree is an M.B.A. Lite,” said Henry M. Levin, a professor of higher education at Teachers College at Columbia University. “I’ve looked at their course materials. It’s a very low level of instruction.”

"... the Department of Education sent inspectors to California and Arizona campuses. The department’s report, which became public in 2004, concluded that the university had provided incentives to recruit unqualified students and “systematically operates in a duplicitous manner.”"


Any UofP people here want to support or refute the claims in this article?

Troubles Grow for a University Built on Profits - New York Times

Plantwiz

Well, if you can make money on enrollment fees, I suppose getting the client to graduation....really doesn't matter.

I'm wondering though if it has more to do with the 'type' of student they attract. Even though they target the 'working' professional....traditional universities have had programs for several years geared toward working professionals. As a working professional (WP) you may need to use some vacation time or take weekend only courses and not many at one time...but it could be done.

My point being, that someone who REALLY wanted an education would get it. Someone who only wanted convenience...may not feel as obligated to finish because they have an opportunity to finish at any point.

Thoughts?

jlhct

Plantwiz wrote:

Well, if you can make money on enrollment fees, I suppose getting the client to graduation....really doesn't matter.

I'm wondering though if it has more to do with the 'type' of student they attract. Even though they target the 'working' professional....traditional universities have had programs for several years geared toward working professionals. As a working professional (WP) you may need to use some vacation time or take weekend only courses and not many at one time...but it could be done.

My point being, that someone who REALLY wanted an education would get it. Someone who only wanted convenience...may not feel as obligated to finish because they have an opportunity to finish at any point.

Thoughts?

I completed my Bachelor's degree from U of PHX back in 2004 in Information Systems. I thought the program was great. For me, at the time it allowed me to go to school when I had a lot of other stuff going on and couldn't really go to a traditional campus.

The program does take a lot of work and time and I wonder also if the low graduation rate may come from some students thinking that it didn't have to take as much time as it really did.

All in all I thought the curriculum was good, but as stated earlier you really have to be comitted. I wanted to finish my degree and completing it online was a bit more convenient but the work still had to be put in.

BigTone

I can't speak about UOP directly, but I work in another online university's prior learning department. (According to an independent study, the #1 online university, yada yada yada)

From what I see, a lot of U o P people transfer here after the first two semesters. And, when doing priority audits of their transcripts for admissions, they always seem to play the card that UOP will give them more transfer credit then here.

To their credit though, I can't really say I've seen a whole lot of UOP people transfering from their IT program.

ajs1976

I completed my Associates in 2004 and I have been looking for a Bachelors program since then. Because of articles like the one mentioned and other peoples experiences, I decided to look for an online program that was tied into a traditional school. It seems like some people look down on online education.

At one time I looked into UofP and I was turned off by their agressive sales department. They were so agressive, that I don't think they can be reffered to as an admissions department.

JDMurray

Plantwiz wrote:

I'm wondering though if it has more to do with the 'type' of student they attract.

I've heard that UoP really goes after enrolling people who are in the military, and upwards of one-third of their students are active military. I wonder if active military duty would make a student less likely to complete a degree.

jlhct wrote:

The program does take a lot of work and time and I wonder also if the low graduation rate may come from some students thinking that it didn't have to take as much time as it really did.

This is very likely. You really don't know what you are getting into with online education until you actually try it. And as an online learner myself, I can definitely say that it's not like traditional schooling, and not for everyone. There's not a lot of information on the graduation rates for online universities.

ajs1976 wrote:

At one time I looked into UofP and I was turned off by their agressive sales department. They were so agressive, that I don't think they can be reffered to as an admissions department.

With a high student attrition rate, they'd need to resort to aggressive "sales tactics" to maintain their revenue.

elover_jm

Hey JD wuts the Graduation rate for the university you're attending?

ajs1976

jdmurray wrote:

ajs1976 wrote:

At one time I looked into UofP and I was turned off by their agressive sales department. They were so agressive, that I don't think they can be reffered to as an admissions department.

With a high student attrition rate, they'd need to resort to aggressive "sales tactics" to maintain their revenue.

I agree. They probably should evaluate why the have such a high attrition rate and correct those issues. It just seemed to me like they would take anyone who applied.

JDMurray

elover_jm wrote:

Hey JD wuts the Graduation rate for the university you're attending?

I've no clue. I'll email my adviser and see if those figures are available.

UPDATE: There are no graduation rates listed on the Capella University Media Fact Sheet or at the Capella Education Company Web Site that I can find. I'll post if I do find any conclusive figures.

Ye Gum Noki

I took some classes with UoP back in 95 (in Tucson) for an MS in CIS. Good classes and I really learned a lot. I was on active duty at the time. Well to make a long story short and to answer another question, I had to go "some place else" for awhile and couldn't finish the degree program, which IS very common.

I retired a few years after that, and decided to continue the degree program with UoP online. They looked at my transcript and told me that NONE of my credits would count towards the degree becuase they had revamped the program so much. I was PISSED that they wouldn't even accept their own credits so I did not persue it any further.

So... I liked the classes I DID take from them, but adminitstratively I do believe they have "issues."

Mr. Ye

drakhan2002

jdmurray wrote:

I've no clue. I'll email my adviser and see if those figures are available.

Have you received a response to this question? I am very curious as well...as a fellow Capella learner.

And to chime in on the UoP discussion. I tried for one semester in their MBA program (my work was paying for it). I didn't like the instructor because whenever I'd ask a question, I didn't get a reply...even after two or three emails...no replies. So I quit and started at Capella and I am much happier.

JDMurray

drakhan2002 wrote:

Have you received a response to this question? I am very curious as well...as a fellow Capella learner.

I did ask via email and was directed to the Capella Education Company Web Site. I didn't find the graduation rates there, so I'm still looking. I have a feeling that due to the significant drop-out rate of people who find they don't like online education, Capella's gradation rate may not look very good, and therefore they don't volunteer that statistic. A low graduation rate isn't entirely a school's fault, but many people unreasonably assume that it is. I would prefer to see the graduation rate of learners that complete four quarters at Capella. I bet that rate is better than 66%.