CCVP the next best thing?

x_Danny_x

is it the next hot thing? i hear that you can make quite a bit of money and also eaiser to get in despite not having experience in it if you become CCVP certified.

mikej412

Voice is hot.... but it was a couple years back that Business Partners would grab any CCNA who could spell CCVP and throw them into a voice install. Things seem to have calmed down (and they realized someone with an A+ could just as easily put the new phones on the desks and plug in the network cables )

It made sense in the "old days" to get the CCNP before the CCVP and the new CCNP seems to include the "Voice 101" stuff now -- so it's still good advice. But I have said that if you have the job opportunity, you can go from the CCNA to the CCVP (and then backfill with the CCNP later). A lot of the Voice stuff will be new and strange to a network person, just like some of the networking stuff may be new and strange to a telecom guy -- but you find both of those types (network & telecom guys/gals) at the CCVP level (or working to get there).

A CCVP on your resume will get you more "hits" and possibly some calls. If you don't have Voice experience, be prepared to dazzle them with your knowledge.

x_Danny_x

excellent.

since it seems that people are going for their Voice instead of the CCNP, then I will go for the voice. i need to get the heck out of my job as soon as possible.


i dont think the CCNP will get me phone calls or anything like that.

mikej412

You'd probably get more hits on your Resume and Calls with both -- CCNP/CCVP. But yeah, if you've researched the job market in your area and see CCVP jobs -- then the CCVP alone might get you out of your current job sooner.

Also look at upgrading your MCSA to an MCSE Messaging -- that could get into the Unity stuff. Or, avoid getting your MCSE:Messaging if you don't want a job driving exchange servers -- Cisco Unity Support Specialist.

You could also wind up driving the CallManager Servers.... so your MCSA is useful there too. Or, your MCSA could doom you to an eternity driving CallManager Servers. But for CallManager 5 -- think Linux.

On the Voice side, if you like it and are good (and have the motivation and dedication), you do have a clear shot all the way to CCIE Voice.

x_Danny_x

man, keeping my knowledge of what i gain from the certs is a tall order cause my job doesnt even applied any of them.

the mcse Messeging? how many tests for that?

doing both CCNP and CCVP is good though i want the CCIE under my belt.


which is easier to pass, the CCNP or CCVP?

mikej412

x_Danny_x wrote:

man, keeping my knowledge of what i gain from the certs is a tall order cause my job doesnt even applied any of them.

That's why you have to keep reading and studying. If you get a job interview for something you've forgotten, you'll lose the job to the guy who just got his certification and remembers the stuff.

x_Danny_x wrote:

the mcse Messeging? how many tests for that?

Not sure... don't remember... I decided to go for the Cisco Certifications (targeting the CCIEs) so its been a while since I checked out the MCSE requirements.

Its 7 exams (or it used to be) for the MCSE... and I think it was 2 exams for Messaging. I just don't remember if those 2 exams can be "electives" within the 7 MCSE exams.

Last version of Exchange I worked with was 5.5 -- so I think there may have been a few updates since then.

I can't help it, but I find it funny. To get a simple, lowly Cisco Specialist Cert -- Cisco Unity Support Specialist -- you take one Cisco exam and need another vendor's major certification. What's next? LPI certification pre-req for the CCVP (or Cisco IP Communications Support Specialist) when CallManager is only available on Linux?

x_Danny_x wrote:

which is easier to pass, the CCNP or CCVP?

Depends.

CCNP is probably easier for networking people. CCVP is probably easier for telecom people -- but it really depends on your experience.

If you're a CCNA who spends your days creating pretty bandwidth utilization charts for your manager.... then you may have problems with the CCNP.

If you're a telecom person who never gets to touch the PBX(s) you may have problems with the CCVP.

If you're really really really smart (and motivated and dedicated) -- they both may be easy.

x_Danny_x

so with CCVP, im going to be working with telephones telecommunication networks, computer networks, nternet networking in general?

is that the main bulk of it? i will still be getting my hands on routers and switches correct?

mikej412

x_Danny_x wrote:

i will still be getting my hands on routers and switches correct?

Yes, as long as you aren't the person chained to the CallManager (and/or Unity Servers) in the Server Room.

x_Danny_x

thanks Mike, by the way, i have an interview over the phone with the same company i work for but this time for Help Desk job.


wish me luck man, im going to need it.

mikej412

Good Luck!

tech-airman

mikej412 wrote:

x_Danny_x wrote:

the mcse Messeging? how many tests for that?

Not sure... don't remember... I decided to go for the Cisco Certifications (targeting the CCIEs) so its been a while since I checked out the MCSE requirements.

Its 7 exams (or it used to be) for the MCSE... and I think it was 2 exams for Messaging. I just don't remember if those 2 exams can be "electives" within the 7 MCSE exams.

Last version of Exchange I worked with was 5.5 -- so I think there may have been a few updates since then.

mikej412,

There are currently two MCSE: Messaging versions:

1. MCSE: Messaging on Microsoft Windows 2000
2. MCSE: Messaging on Microsoft Windows Server 2003

The MCSE: Messaging on Microsoft Windows 2000 certificate requires: 1) three Core Networking exams 2) one Core Client exam 3) one Core Design exam 4) two Exchange exams in lieu of two elective exams. That is a total of seven exams.

The MCSE: Messaging on Microsoft Windows 2003 certificate requires: 1) four Core Networking exams 2) one Core Client exam 3) one Core Design exam 4) two Exchange 2003 exams in lieu of two elective exams. That is a total of eight exams.

I hope this helps.

Source:

1. MCSE: Messaging on Microsoft Windows 2000 Certification Requirements - http://www.microsoft.com/learning/mcp/mcse/messaging/windows2000.mspx
2. MCSE: Messaging on Microsoft Windows Server 2003 Certification Requirements - http://www.microsoft.com/learning/mcp/mcse/messaging/windowsserver2003.mspx

mikej412 wrote:

I can't help it, but I find it funny. To get a simple, lowly Cisco Specialist Cert -- Cisco Unity Support Specialist -- you take one Cisco exam and need another vendor's major certification.

mike, I'd like to laugh with you. The Cisco Unity Support Specialist requires the MCSE: Messaging. However, the MCSE is the one who designed and implemented the system that the Cisco Voice networking is involved with. The key word "Support" suggests that maybe the MCSA: Messaging should be the pre-requisite instead of the MCSE: Messaging. I think the MCSE: Messaging may be overkill.

x_Danny_x

mikej412 wrote:

Good Luck!

got rejected man! these certs are not helping much dude.

i guess i have no choice but to go after the ccvp right now. darn it, life sucks

Ciscopimpenator

How is supporting Cisco Voice infrastructure? Is there demand for this?

I know installing the Voice is still in high demand, but is the maintenance and support of Voice products enough to merit specialized Voice guys becoming full-timers?

Thanks for all the great advice Mike. How does a guy like you with so much background in Cisco do what you're doing? Are you maintaining all these tech sites?

I think I'm going for my MCSE messaging now because of what you said.
Someone else told me a CCNP/CCVP is almost as marketable as a CCIE, do you believe this?
This might be the way to go for myself since I wanted to get into Voice anyways.


Keep Pimpin,

-Ciscopimpenator

Darthn3ss

I figure i'm just going to try to cover all areas: CCNP, CCIP, and CCVP. then they can't deny me a job and will instantly give me a 6 figure salary and a company car.

wait, wait, i was sleeping there. its nice to dream though.

Ciscopimpenator

It's not that unrealistic.
IF you have the skills they want ,and you're good, the employers will pay. There are too many unqualified and unmotivated people in the world who will make you think otherwise.
Go where the market demand is...I wish I would have gone Voice 7 years ago when I knew it would be hot. I'm checking out the current market trends as well....


Oh, and don't sell yourself short ever. I have worked with some complete morons who sold themselves like they could turn water into wine. I always undersold myself and now I don't.
I'm CCIE quality and I know it. When I finally reach the CCIE I'm going to pimp that test like I pimped the CCNA, scoring 950+.


-Ciscopimpenator

Darthn3ss

actualy it is somewhat of a goal of mine to collect most of the cisco professional level certs.... i havn't given myself a timeframe yet and won't until i atleast start to study for CCNP :-p Once CCNA is done i'm going to study for CCNP exams primarily but while i'm doing that i'd like to study for and take the CVOICE exam to see if its something i could really do or not.

Ciscopimpenator

I'm at a crossroads...do I get my MCSE or go for CCNP?

The way I see it, if I can pimp the MCSE within 1 year(which shouldn't be too hard), I can start my CCNP and CCVP which will take awhile. Then I can go onto CCIE afterwards.

Maybe I should just forget the MCSE and go right for CCNP. Whaddya think? The problem is I'm having hard time getting jobs with just my CCNA. I figure if I get my MCSE I will never be jobless.
Do you think I will a have a hard time finding job with just CCNP?
That is the million dollar question for me at this time....

Keep Pimpin,

Ciscopimpenator

Darthn3ss

Yeah i'm still going to try and go for a mix of ms and cisco - MSCA/MCP certs for now.

I'm going to have to go with CCNP myself. in my area, a MCSE gets you a tech support job. Hell, recruiters post ads looking for computer science graduates with 3 years of related experience for tech support/helpdesk jobs... blah!

Ciscopimpenator

I should just go for my CCNP and put MCSE on backburner.

I'm confused...I can't afford to be jobless for another 6-9 months.
I might have to be a busdriver....arrggghhhh.......


-Ciscopimpenator on the bus

Ciscopimpenator

Can I write those things down....thats one helluva list...
Screw MCSE...I'm going CCVP or die....:0

Keep Pimpin,

-Ciscopimpenator

mikej412

Ciscopimpenator wrote:

I'm at a crossroads...do I get my MCSE or go for CCNP?

Hum... didn't you do some of the CCNP stuff before? 4 exams vs 7 exams vs 1 exam for MCP (plus a couple/few more for MCSA).... I'd say you could get the CCNP before the MCSE -- but the MCSA could get you a job sooner if you don't have the experience to "back up" a CCNP.

What's available in Timbuktu? Have you hit up the temp agencies and played up your previous knowledge (and soon to be restored knowledge)? It's always easier to get a job when you already have one (even if its just a temp job).

If you decide on the Cisco route -- your Cisco Quest was cut short by other opportunities, but you regret the lost time and have returned to your true calling.... yada yada yada. The best job some people ever do is the job writing their resume (or hiring someone to write it). You still don't have to oversell yourself (like a lot of ID10Ts do) -- but spend some time preparing for those "fluffy questions" -- and you better be ready to terminate the technical questions.

People have re-certified their Cisco Unity Specialist Certificates... so I guess there is a demand -- but you'd have to do some searching of the Job Sites and see if anyone has jobs posted for the abbreviated or full official names of the Certification/Certificates (and if any are in Timbuktu). If no one has ever posted a job and the temp agencies have never received a request -- it probably isn't worth your time right now.

You may also want to have a look at the Cisco Partners in your area -- even a job "racking and stacking" might get you access to their practice lab (demo hardware) for further certifications and opportunities within the company (or their customers).

Ciscopimpenator

In the voice of Vincent Vega

"Muchas Gracias"

mikej412

DarbyWeaver wrote:

demand for IPCC

Right -- that's one of the "one hit wonders" -- no prerequisites -- one exam. Search the job boards to see if you get any hits on IPCC, the exam abbreviation IPCCX, and the complete "specialization name" -- Cisco IP Contact Center Express Specialist

This is the Voice gray area -- not part of the CCVP.... but useful for the CCIE Voice.

The Cisco Unity Support Specialist is the one Cisco exam -- and the MCSE:Messaging.

~Scott~

I finished the CCNA and CCDA in January of this year.... then I did the IP Communications Express Specialist course and exam in March. I enjoyed the journey through all of it having had limited exposure to anything past the physical layer of the network. I have been involved in physical layer design for many years.

Now... as of this morning, here is my new list of exams to have completed before the end of the year....

CCVP Exams

642-432 CVOICE
642-453 GWGK
642-445 CIPT 5.0
642-426 TUC Troubleshooting Cisco Unified Communications Systems (TUC) formerly IPTT
642-642 QOS

Cisco Qualified Specialist exams

642-414 IPTD Cisco IP Telephony Design Specialist
642-162 IPCCX Cisco IP Contact Center Express Specialist
642-072 CUDN Cisco Unity Design Specialist (Cisco Unity Design and Networking)

Sales Exams

646-228 LCSAIPC Cisco Lifecycle Services Advanced IP Communications

The good news is that my company pays for the training, exams, travel and associated expenses for ALL of it.... I am very thankful for that! I will be scheduling more training at Unitek soon!

Again, I am excited to travel down this path... it makes me stronger in my field and opens new doors. Soon I will have tons of experience to keep my certifications company and will be an unstoppable force in the world of Cisco VoIP!

Oh, and I plan to slip the CCIE Voice written exam in there somewhere also... maybe January of 2008....

This is a pretty aggressive schedule, but it is attainable!!

mikej412

~Scott~ wrote:

This is a pretty aggressive schedule, but it is attainable!!

Yep, as long as you're motivated and dedicated. Just like the old CCNP and the CIT exam -- study the troubleshooting as you study for the other exams and then figure out what else you need for TUC that wasn't covered in the other exams.

It looks like you need the Unity and IPCC for the Voice written, so you might want to move the Design exam to last and use that as your Voice Written Exam review - kill two birds with one stone. Plus the "Testlet Exam from Heck" might make the Voice Written seem easier, assuming it hasn't scared you for life.

Maybe QoS before TUC.... since the current IPTT has a QoS section in the blueprint.

~Scott~

Thanks for the road map Mike! I will follow your advice as much as possible. I appreciate your feedback since you have traveled this path before... it's nice to know where the pitfalls are and also where exam sequence/studies might provide for a smoother journey.

~Scott~

So the design exam is pretty nasty huh... I mean unless you enjoy testlets....

BTW... The Unity Design Specialist road map calls for "additional training" of MCSE: Messaging in Windows Server 2000 or Windows Server 2003. Do I need to attain that cert? I have NO experienc with MS server class operating systems.

mikej412

The Unity Design cert requires the CCDA Prerequsite. Its the Unity Support that requires the MCSE:Messaging. If you were going to do the Unity Support job (Unity Software, Voice Connections, and Exchange Server Jockey) then you'd probably want it. But you'd also have to get it if you want that cert too. For the CCIE Voice you could probably get by with just studying the Unity books and not worry about the Unity Support Certificate. I'm guessing Installing and Configuring an Exchange Server wouldn't be part of the Lab Exam.

The hardest part of the IP Telephony Design exam is not knowing how many real questions there are. They tell you the number of questions at the beginning of the exam -- but then you don't know how many "sections" are within each upcoming testlet -- so it's hard to "pace yourself." Other than testlet shock, I did very well and finished up with plenty of time.... which gave me some time to sit in the parking lot and let my hands stop shaking before driving home. The nervous tick only comes back now when I think about the exam.

Keep on riding that paid training gravy train! YeeHaa!

kafifi13

Hey guys...thanks for the input. I'm in teh same situation. I'm close to getting my CCNA and i'm trying to map out what i do next. I use to do some hands on networking a few years back. Now I work for a Telecom resellar who is getting into the business of becoming it's own voip carrier. It will be probably by the end of this year. From alot of people i talked too they said VOIP is the thing to get into.

I really am enjoying networking though. I deep down want to get my CCNP but i feel as though the CCVP will benefit me more. It will not only help me at my current job but also help land me a job somewhere else if i get some voip experiance at my current job. I've even thought about studying for both but that is just not a good idea when i think about it. Do you guys think given my situtation just go out after the CCVP and then once completed do CCNP. My company is even willing to send me away to the CVOICE class offered by Global knowledge in decemeber. I'm thinking about finishing up my ICND and then doing QoS before the Cvoice class in hopes that after the class i'll be close to taking that exam. Meaning i would have got my CCNA and almost half of my CCVP in a year.

mikej412

kafifi13 wrote:

Do you guys think given my situtation just go out after the CCVP and then once completed do CCNP. My company is even willing to send me away to the CVOICE class offered by Global knowledge in decemeber.

My first post in this thread (on page 1) sounds like I was talking about you

mikej412 wrote:

It made sense in the "old days" to get the CCNP before the CCVP and the new CCNP seems to include the "Voice 101" stuff now -- so it's still good advice. But I have said that if you have the job opportunity, you can go from the CCNA to the CCVP (and then backfill with the CCNP later).

It sounds like you have the opportunity..... with the added benefit of a company paid class. I'd say go for it!

kafifi13

Thanks Mike. AFter i sent my Thread i spoke with our Network Engineer who is building our voip network. He thinks i should just stay with the CCNP based we are doing as a company. He said the CCVP stuff is more geared toward the applications where the CCNP will better help with the network itself. He makes sense.

I think i'll still take my company up on the offere to do CVOICE but pursue the CCNP. CCNP is really want i wanted to do all along.

Talk about throwing a curve ball huh?!?