If you were an employer which of these 2 would you hire?

mysql1988

Both of these two want a Network Engineering position in an 80% Cisco environment 10% Microsoft and about another 10% linux

1.) Someone with no experience but has a masters Degree in CS
OR
2.) Someone with 4 years experience, with no college degree but does have a CCNA and a CCDA and is 1 test away from a CCNP



who would you hire?

Nuwin

Interview both asking a few technical questions to gauge knowledge.

Take the one who performs best.

If they come out even, take the one who will work for less money.

mikej412

2

The key is "no experience."

In my first job after the Military, the 3rd hire for our team was someone finishing their Masters in Information Systems Management (DePaul University). After 6 weeks, and still not being able to complete his first (and only task), he was let go. The other 2 of us liked the guy, and tried to talk him through his task.... but he "never got it." The funny thing -- we both decided he'd make a good manager someday, even if he didn't have a techie bone in his body (and we also wondered how he got through his techie IT classes).

Inc

mikej412 wrote:

2

The key is "no experience."

In my first job after the Military, the 3rd hire for our team was someone finishing their Masters in Information Systems Management (DePaul University). After 6 weeks, and still not being able to complete his first (and only task), he was let go. The other 2 of us liked the guy, and tried to talk him through his task.... but he "never got it." The funny thing -- we both decided he'd make a good manager someday, even if he didn't have a techie bone in his body (and we also wondered how he got through his techie IT classes).

6 weeks? Was he given an Gordian knot as his first assignment?

Plantwiz

mysql1988 wrote:

Both of these two want a Network Engineering position in an 80% Cisco environment 10% Microsoft and about another 10% linux

1.) Someone with no experience but has a masters Degree in CS
OR
2.) Someone with 4 years experience, with no college degree but does have a CCNA and a CCDA and is 1 test away from a CCNP



who would you hire?

Depends on the interview, and maybe a couple interviews. 1 to see how they do. The 2nd interview with the team they'd be working with.

sthomas

I would hire number 2. Experience is the key in my opinion of course if the environment is 80% cisco the cisco certs do help.

elover_jm

Hire #1

Provide some technical training.........

The fact he has a Masters degree, i think IMO he has a lot more to offer than just the tech stuff #2 might readily have.

but then again it all depends on who you are really looking for, if just want the tech skills then go for number #2.

sprkymrk

Probably number 2 for simialr reasons as already stated. Also, many graduates of CS programs have more programming classes than networking. So you might ask about that too which, if true, would also be points in favor of #2.

NightShade1

Dunno i will know that in the interview... i willl ask stuff he should know to do the job, technical question about the Work he has to do and all that....
Guess the 2nd guy should do it but who knows... ppl can surprice you

garv221

mysql1988 wrote:

Both of these two want a Network Engineering position in an 80% Cisco environment 10% Microsoft and about another 10% linux

1.) Someone with no experience but has a masters Degree in CS
OR
2.) Someone with 4 years experience, with no college degree but does have a CCNA and a CCDA and is 1 test away from a CCNP



who would you hire?

That's a no brainier, they guy with all the experience #2.

JDMurray

I would likely hire the person who talks about IT like it's his favorite sports team. Someone who can just talk forever, and in detail, on problems they've encountered and the solutions that they personally discovered and implemented. At least this is one way of identifying creative and experienced programmers. Realize that this method favors interviewees with good verbal skills, and many good people are naturally very quiet and uncommunicative in new environments, so it should not be the only interviewing benchmark used.

Ed Rooney

jdmurray wrote:

I would likely hire the person who talks about IT like it's his favorite sports team. Someone who can just talk forever, and in detail, on problems they've encountered and the solutions that they personally discovered and implemented. At least this is one way of identifying creative and experienced programmers. Realize that this method favors interviewees with good verbal skills, and many good people are naturally very quiet and uncommunicative in new environments, so it should not be the only interviewing benchmark used.

That's how I try to run my interviews. I get them in my office, give them a coke or a coffee, then tell them to loosen their tie and get comfortable. I'm not evaluating their wardrobe. I ask them a bit about their work experience, but I sort of shape the conversation so that it becomes less of a structured interview and more of a conversation. I avoid the "if you were a bird...." questions and stick to what matters.

plettner

Gut instinct tells me number 2 should be the person for the job. Experience plus he/she's backed up with certs (and willl get more) tells me this person the better choice.

jdmurray wrote:

I would likely hire the person who talks about IT like it's his favorite sports team. Someone who can just talk forever, and in detail, on problems they've encountered and the solutions that they personally discovered and implemented.

I agree. Someone wanting to enter IT needs this stuff flowing through their veins. For example, when there's a challenge, the person who talks about IT like it's a sport is the guy who likes a challenge and wants to fix things. People who don't grasp some of this enthusiasm may not be necessarliy the right person. Maybe I'm biased becuase I like to talk IT to the guys I work with.

bighusker

The real question is "why the hell would somebody with a masters degree in Computer Science be applying for a network administrator job?" A person with a CS degree would be no more qualified for managing a network than someone with a mechanical engineering degree. If you have a degree in CS and "network management" was a significant part of your curriculum, then your school has badly misnamed that area of study.

A grand total of *one* networking/communications class was required for my undergraduate CS degree, and it dealt more with math problems, theory, encoding schemes than any practical knowledge. The rest of the curriculum dealt with studying math, algorithms, programming languages, data structures, compiler/interpreter construction, and some software engineering. So, without any experience, a person with a masters degree in CS and no experience is not even looking for the right type of job.

A better question would be if somebody with a masters degree in Information Systems with no experience were to apply for the same job.

famosbrown

bighusker wrote:

The real question is "why the hell would somebody with a masters degree in Computer Science be applying for a network administrator job?" A person with a CS degree would be no more qualified for managing a network than someone with a mechanical engineering degree. If you have a degree in CS and "network management" was a significant part of your curriculum, then your school has badly misnamed that area of study.

A grand total of *one* networking/communications class was required for my undergraduate CS degree, and it dealt more with math problems, theory, encoding schemes than any practical knowledge. The rest of the curriculum dealt with studying math, algorithms, programming languages, data structures, compiler/interpreter construction, and some software engineering. So, without any experience, a person with a masters degree in CS and no experience is not even looking for the right type of job.

A better question would be if somebody with a masters degree in Information Systems with no experience were to apply for the same job.

I totally agree! My major was MIS, and the only idfference between myself and the CS majors were the fact that I was taking a bunch of the business classes, while they were taking the high level math and science courses...a few engineering courses as well. All of my CS courses leaned more into the programming/coding/software engineering fields. I had one Basic Networking class that I consider close to Network+ training. When I jumped to this field, I had to learn some NEW things, and although my degree is I.T., I'm not using it the way it should be used in the PERFECT world. Because of this, I had to get the certifications to at least get the chance to get the experience from employers.

drpower555

Once again jdmurray is on the money. A masters is a nice peice of paper. However, a well grilled interview should reveal the truth.

Ricka182

#2. Experience is worth more than a degree........exception is if I was looking for a technical manager, then #1......

Darthn3ss

Ed Rooney wrote:

jdmurray wrote:

I would likely hire the person who talks about IT like it's his favorite sports team. Someone who can just talk forever, and in detail, on problems they've encountered and the solutions that they personally discovered and implemented. At least this is one way of identifying creative and experienced programmers. Realize that this method favors interviewees with good verbal skills, and many good people are naturally very quiet and uncommunicative in new environments, so it should not be the only interviewing benchmark used.

That's how I try to run my interviews. I get them in my office, give them a coke or a coffee, then tell them to loosen their tie and get comfortable. I'm not evaluating their wardrobe. I ask them a bit about their work experience, but I sort of shape the conversation so that it becomes less of a structured interview and more of a conversation. I avoid the "if you were a bird...." questions and stick to what matters.

I'd relocate JUST for an interview that did not include Tell me about a time..." in the interview questions.

petedude

Darthn3ss wrote:

I'd relocate JUST for an interview that did not include Tell me about a time..." in the interview questions.

Those annoy the life out of me, too. I like to deal with those incident issues as incidents, put them aside, and forget about them-- after those things, it's time to get back to work anyway.

mengo17

A masters is a nice peice of paper to have ?
What about certifications ? They are what ?

In an interview, IMO, the first thing to know and VERY WELL is what is the job for.
Knowing that, you should now if you want somebody who just knows how to execute things or somebody who just know how to think or somebody with both skills.

The interviewer is the person who should be intelligent enough to distinguish and judge the candidates for the position. If the interviewer is no good at doing this, you know what can happen.

I would consider every single skill, knowledge, degree, certification when hiring someone. But do not tell us that a Masters is a nice paper to have. Because if you think like this, you should think the same about certifications.

Consider that in order to have a masters, first you have to go through 4 years of college. I said 4 years. Not just a few months studying for a test which you decide the date. No pressure, no deadlines. In a BS degree you do have deadlines, pressure, 2 tests at the same week or more. Presentations to make and group or single projects. All with deadlines. The pressure is even higher if you work full time. Can everybody handle that ? No. Can you do it ? Yes. It all depends on you, your goals, your desire to learn and how much you love that field.
The masters is the same thing, but more focused on a specific subject and in a shorter time. The average of a Masters is 1.5 to 2 years.

My BS was in MIS too, but I chose the Information Security concentration.
Just to mention a few of the technical courses that I had to take. Computer Forensics (that was awsome), Information Security (technical side, learn to hack, very nice) and Information Security Management (policies, mngmt side, very nice too). Plus SW engeneer, Programming and Business (which is in very high demand today for a IT guy to have business skills) courses. I am planning to start a MS in Information Security, which will be both managerial and technical. Believe me, is not going to be a nice paper to have, it will be way more than that.


To make it simple, I agree with elover_jm.

mrhaun03

I would have them battle to the death and see who comes out victorious.

Darthn3ss

petedude wrote:

Darthn3ss wrote:

I'd relocate JUST for an interview that did not include Tell me about a time..." in the interview questions.

Those annoy the life out of me, too. I like to deal with those incident issues as incidents, put them aside, and forget about them-- after those things, it's time to get back to work anyway.

I bombed an interview at target (when i was 16) because of those questions, after 3 interviewers and like 40 "Tell me about a time when you were in a stressful situation. What was the situation, how did you deal with it, and what was the outcome?" type questions.

i'm getting mad just thinking about it!

blackmage439

Darthn3ss wrote:

I'd relocate JUST for an interview that did not include Tell me about a time..." in the interview questions.

"Tell me about a time when you were asked to do something that you have never done before."

AAARGH!!! I hate that question, and I've been asked it before at least twice during interviews at different places. It's the most ambiguous yet simplistically evil question to ask someone. Encountering different things is part of our journey through life. It's so much a part of human nature that we don't even think about "new" things at all. I always blank on that question...

Anyhoo, back on topic. Call me a bigot, but I dislike many people with any degree higher than a Bachelors, ESPECIALLY if they have an Engineering degree (sorry if I'm insulting anyone on here, I'm sure YOU are nice people! ). Maybe my time spent rotting away in a 2-year school for nearly twice that now has eroded much of the respect I once had for anyone with a Masters or PhD.

For example, just recently some dumb broad from the Engineering department at my college strolled in my math class and proceeded to tell us, "by the end of my speech, you WILL want to become an engineer... 'Engineers' are in many management positions today, including hospitals." I was so insulted by those comments I wanted to slap her. By her logic, a person with a degree in chemical engineering would be a better candidate to manage a hospital then someone with degrees in business and/or *gasp* NURSING! Also, my stepfather has labored himself to (literally) near death slaving away in a chemical plant for over 10 years now. He has proposed many intelligent and often money-saving safety and operation changes at that place. You know what the managers, with their shiny 'engineer' degrees tell him? Usually something along the lines of "buzz off," or "there is no problem here, what are you smoking?" Granted, that's just usual corporate politics, but you get the idea.

I'll bet most managers and recruitment officers also dislike people with higher education out of fear, and rightly so. Mostly, because they demand higher pay rates due to their massive time spent in their respective, expensive, and lengthy education programs.

In short, unless choice #1 (with his shiny Masters degree in a somewhat unrelated field) managed to impress me and could easily pick up on Cisco devices and their characteristics, not to mention how networks operate in general, I would go with choice #2 hands-down 100%. Hands-on experience + job-related education + lack of ego-inflating degree = hire!

kafifi13

I'm currently an employer and hire on a daily basis. The best thing to do is give the interview's a Written exam or something that will gauge thier knowledge. You will be suprised what people claim they have in experiance and knowledge but really don't know the info.

mengo17

Do not generalize things.
There are people with higher education who think they are gods just because they have a higher education. The same happens with people with no education but having certifications. And the same happens with people with no higher education and no certs but because the have years of experience.

mengo17

kafifi13 wrote:

I'm currently an employer and hire on a daily basis. The best thing to do is give the interview's a Written exam or something that will gauge thier knowledge. You will be suprised what people claim they have in experiance and knowledge but really don't know the info.

TRUE