Not getting hired because not A+?!

dtechie

First off, I have TONS of computer experience and I've been in the industry for bout 5 years now. I have my associates in computer science, and working towards a bachelors. On top of that, I received training through the Army AND I'm actively studying for my MCSA2k3. I just had an interview for a tech support/admin/all around computer company today who loved my resume and thought I was enough- HOWEVER, I don't hold any certifications. I'd be taken on at $12/hr and then given a raise to $14.50 or more upon certification- fine, understood. I then asked,
"so when I complete my first MS certification and achieve MCP status, I'll be fine, correct?"
"No, you'll need the A+ certification. Its a simple exam that is very important and in high demand in this industry."
"But suppose I had my full MCSE and a bachelors, would I need the A+?"
"Yes, because like I said its a requirement in this industry and customers like to see the A+ cert hanging above your desk."

Basically, they just want that $300 piece of paper sitting above my desk where my MCSA cert should be laughing at me saying, "haha! I just wasted your time and money for a much more useful certification all to make Susie and Johnny happy that their $300 HP is in the hands of a genuine CompTIA certified A+ technician!"

I definitely need a job right now, but even $14.50/hr is cutting it low for the experience I have when I've been up to $17-$20/hr before. But $12/hr because I don't have the GED of the IT industry? Thats like saying, "wow! you have a Masters and all this experience....buuut you never got your Associates on the way". Doesn't industry standard basically say if one holds an AA, MCSA, and all the experience- the A+ cert is more or less a waste of time/money to pursue?

Now, should I just give in and take the job, someone with plenty of computer experience- how difficult is it to just go in, take the A+, and pass? I've never really researched A+ too much before, but from what I've been told- its easily doable do to the 60% passing score and downright easy questions for someone who has experience... or is it loaded with questions on things that no one has ever experienced in a practical day-to-day job?

Plantwiz

dtechie wrote:

Now, should I just give in and take the job, someone with plenty of computer experience- how difficult is it to just go in, take the A+, and pass? I've never really researched A+ too much before, but from what I've been told- its easily doable do to the 60% passing score and downright easy questions for someone who has experience... or is it loaded with questions on things that no one has ever experienced in a practical day-to-day job?

Hope you feel better now


First, go download the objectives from CompTIA and see what you are 'expected' to know. You may want to invest in Mike Meyers book or even his Passport book depending on how you stand after reading the objectives.

Second, Take the exam. People can walk in and pass. Generally, many do take about a week or two to prepare at a minimum, but it really just depends on you.

Third, after reading your post may I recommend that now that you've vented....it's time to calm down and commit to your decision A: take the exams. B: skip the exams and be satisfied with your decision.

It's bull that there isn't work for a person with experience and no A+. It's just not true. Perhaps THAT company has a standard that they will not bend on, but not everyone is this way AND you can go into business for yourself. If it's worth having, it's worth the work. Attitude and personality will carry you far.

WITH A CERTIFICATION, you allow the company you work for an opportunity to 'brag' up their employees. You clients will appreciate your continuing sense of importance to acquiring newer skills and staying with the trends or ahead of them.

Yep, it's work....that's life and if you've been in the Army, you likely know this.

BTW, if you are making $12-14.50 as a tech WITHOUT any certification, you are are doing darn fine! Bench techs in many markets are $8-12p/h in the US (though rates do depend on your city and the competition out there). The more techs looking for work in your area....the lower the wages will be. YMMV

dtechie

Plantwiz wrote:

Hope you feel better now


First, go download the objectives from CompTIA and see what you are 'expected' to know. You may want to invest in Mike Meyers book or even his Passport book depending on how you stand after reading the objectives.

Second, Take the exam. People can walk in and pass. Generally, many do take about a week or two to prepare at a minimum, but it really just depends on you.

Third, after reading your post may I recommend that now that you've vented....it's time to calm down and commit to your decision A: take the exams. B: skip the exams and be satisfied with your decision.

It's bull that there isn't work for a person with experience and no A+. It's just not true. Perhaps THAT company has a standard that they will not bend on, but not everyone is this way AND you can go into business for yourself. If it's worth having, it's worth the work. Attitude and personality will carry you far.

WITH A CERTIFICATION, you allow the company you work for an opportunity to 'brag' up their employees. You clients will appreciate your continuing sense of importance to acquiring newer skills and staying with the trends or ahead of them.

Yep, it's work....that's life and if you've been in the Army, you likely know this.

BTW, if you are making $12-14.50 as a tech WITHOUT any certification, you are are doing darn fine! Bench techs in many markets are $8-12p/h in the US (though rates do depend on your city and the competition out there). The more techs looking for work in your area....the lower the wages will be. YMMV

I understand. But the job also included server work and admin work- aka, MCSA/MCSE work. All the A+ cert would be for with them is a bragging right.

I mean, I went in the interview perfectly fine. The employer was very into me before sending me into the owner who right away stated they wont pay $14/hr due to lack of certification- despite AA, tons of other training/work experience, and working towards MCP/MCSA. UNDERSTOOD- no cert, but when they said no A+ specifically? Thats ridiculous. Could have someone with a bachelors, MCSE, and others- but essentially it was that A+ paper they wanted. I checked out sample questions/tests today for a while. Its a JOKE! ANYONE can go in and pass that test. Its completely ridiculous for someone to not pay up because the person doesnt hold that SPECIFIC cert even tho he may be certified in more advanced areas with tons more experience and POSSIBLY outdoing the other employees simply because they don't have the A+ bragging rights.

sprkymrk

Well I'm glad you got a better job, congrats.

Now, since anyone can go in and pass the A+, please do it so you won't run into that situation again. And don't stop there, either, because down the road you'll run into the same thing if you don't have your MCSE, or Linux+, or Bachelors, or Masters, or CCIE....

Then you'll hit the old "you are over qualified" thing where you can't get a job, not even a $10 an hour job, because you are over qualified and they'll be afraid you'll leave in a few months when something better comes along. And the problem is, when you are qualified for a 6 figure salary, there just won't be any openings because of somebody else who knows the owner, or they hired some guy's brother, or the market is depressed, or whatever.

In other words, it's always something. And you either gotta give the man that "something" he wants, or go somewhere else. I wish life was always fair, but....

Can anyone tell it's late and I'm feeling a bit raspy right now?

Again, congrats on the job dgreichert.

porengo

Welcome to IT in the civilian world, dgreichert!

In many instances you'll have someone from Human Resources (who does not have a technical background) conduct interviews for IT positions. And in doing so, will have a job description and requirement list for that particular job which probably includes an A+ certification. So, all they know is that an A+ cert is required for the position and nothing else matters. In addition, depending on the company, many owners are managers and don't have a technical background. As may have been in your case.

I too obtained my computer experience working on mainframes while in the Air Force. I was fortunate enough to find a job as a field engineer immediately after leaving the military. Eight years later I was laid off and found myself competing for jobs with technicians who had less experience but were certified. I quickly learned that in this industry you need education, experience and certifications. Having just one or two doesn't guarantee you a job. That's when I began my journey into obtaining certifications...even an A+.

So, congratulations on your new admin job, but when the time comes for you to move on don't be surprised if you run across the same situation again. If you do, just accept it as part of the IT world and move on, or breakdown and get your A+ certification. It should be no problem for you since you took a few sample questions and think it's a joke.

Plantwiz

Congrats on the better job!


Keep in mind, it is the employers prerogative to require 'x' for any position. If you don't like the rules (as in this case)....move along (and you did and you sound like you've done well).

I think 'no child left behind act' is a waste of good schools time/resources and have decided to cut back on things to afford to send our kids to private schools. I don't like it. I pay good taxes and now will not be able to take advantage of a local school and the programs offered in that school. At the same time, my kids don't spend their first 6 weeks of school in the fall reviewing the previous years curriculum to pass a standardized exam for the teachers to keep their jobs.

Opportunity cost in everything we choose in life. As I mentioned earlier, if you choose not to obtain your A+ (although it's easy enough to pass), you close the door on some opportunities. If you take the exam, you close (or lengthen the time) between the money invested on the exams and that 'something more fun' you want.

I know several successful IT professional who never took the A+. They started with NET+ and continued.

Review the objectives, see where you stand. If you can knock out the exams...it's probably worth it. If you need more then a month to prepare....look at your overall IT goals and see if you 'really' need the certification or not.

Yep, anyone can walk in and take the exam/ pass the exam/ claim A+ certified....but as it stands right now...you cannot.
(no hard feelings either way, but the IT field is still pretty competitive with a LOT of 'old timers' with a TON more experience then 5 years who may appear more desirable to a prospective employer....How do you stand out compared to these people? Maybe it's college? Maybe it's certs? Maybe it's companies or organizations you are affiliated with. Make yourself standout (in a good way ).

Again, you sound as though you landed on your feet this time. Sprkymrk is correct though....what can/are you doing to keep this situation from locking you out of a future position? Perhaps just take the exams and be done. About 4 weeks left on the 2003 objectives!

ITNYC

dtechie wrote:

First off, I have TONS of computer experience and I've been in the industry for bout 5 years now. I have my associates in computer science, and working towards a bachelors. On top of that, I received training through the Army AND I'm actively studying for my MCSA2k3. I just had an interview for a tech support/admin/all around computer company today who loved my resume and thought I was enough- HOWEVER, I don't hold any certifications. I'd be taken on at $12/hr and then given a raise to $14.50 or more upon certification- fine, understood. I then asked,
"so when I complete my first MS certification and achieve MCP status, I'll be fine, correct?"
"No, you'll need the A+ certification. Its a simple exam that is very important and in high demand in this industry."
"But suppose I had my full MCSE and a bachelors, would I need the A+?"
"Yes, because like I said its a requirement in this industry and customers like to see the A+ cert hanging above your desk."

Basically, they just want that $300 piece of paper sitting above my desk where my MCSA cert should be laughing at me saying, "haha! I just wasted your time and money for a much more useful certification all to make Susie and Johnny happy that their $300 HP is in the hands of a genuine CompTIA certified A+ technician!"

I definitely need a job right now, but even $14.50/hr is cutting it low for the experience I have when I've been up to $17-$20/hr before. But $12/hr because I don't have the GED of the IT industry? Thats like saying, "wow! you have a Masters and all this experience....buuut you never got your Associates on the way". Doesn't industry standard basically say if one holds an AA, MCSA, and all the experience- the A+ cert is more or less a waste of time/money to pursue?

Now, should I just give in and take the job, someone with plenty of computer experience- how difficult is it to just go in, take the A+, and pass? I've never really researched A+ too much before, but from what I've been told- its easily doable do to the 60% passing score and downright easy questions for someone who has experience... or is it loaded with questions on things that no one has ever experienced in a practical day-to-day job?

You know, i understand your upset about this but from a recent experience/Interview, The A+ Certification will stop you from getting a job.

My Resume is pretty good. I have Experience with Servers, Blades/Blade Centers, Storage units, Desktops, Laptops..etc. I recently had an interview with an investment bank for a position i KNOW! i can do. I had 3 interviews with 5 high level people and everything seemed to go great. I Though i had nailed it But from an "inside" source ( A friend ) i was turned down because i didnt have my A+ Certification even though i was more than capable of performing the job. All i could think about is, Why didnt i just get my A+ sooner. I have also been turned down for other jobs because of the A+ Certification was lacking. It may seem like a simple Cert but it does hold some ground when asked "What certifications do you currently hold?".
Like the other guys have said, with your experience,.. Go pass the exam so you dont run into that situation again.

blargoe

Just go ahead and do the A+, and the N+ while you're at it, counts as an elective on MCSA anyway.

Situations like this where they won't bend is usually to impress someone who has no idea what they're really looking at. In this company's case, a customer who only want A+ because it's really common so they've heard of it.

I was in a situation one time where I would have landed the job - no doubt about it. The job description specifically stated "Microsoft certification and MCSE" and I more than met the experience and years of service requirements, and I know I was right for the job and technical folks felt the same way. Then the bozo who dealt with the customers called me and said I could not be hired because I didn't meet the certification requirements. Being an MCSE twice over, I had to ask why. They told me I only had the MCSE, and the advertisment specifically said Microsoft certification AND MCSE as if it were two separate things.

Knowing that I could never work with such idiocy, I just hung up the phone instead of explaining how stupid they were. I saw the same ad in the paper three months later. "Both Microsoft certified and also MCSE, NO EXCEPTIONS!"

dtechie

blargoe wrote:

Just go ahead and do the A+, and the N+ while you're at it, counts as an elective on MCSA anyway.

Situations like this where they won't bend is usually to impress someone who has no idea what they're really looking at. In this company's case, a customer who only want A+ because it's really common so they've heard of it.

I was in a situation one time where I would have landed the job - no doubt about it. The job description specifically stated "Microsoft certification and MCSE" and I more than met the experience and years of service requirements, and I know I was right for the job and technical folks felt the same way. Then the bozo who dealt with the customers called me and said I could not be hired because I didn't meet the certification requirements. Being an MCSE twice over, I had to ask why. They told me I only had the MCSE, and the advertisment specifically said Microsoft certification AND MCSE as if it were two separate things.

Knowing that I could never work with such idiocy, I just hung up the phone instead of explaining how stupid they were. I saw the same ad in the paper three months later. "Both Microsoft certified and also MCSE, NO EXCEPTIONS!"

lol understood. that was my feeling. i really didn't want to work for someone who felt A+ was more important than certifications that mean something

sprkymrk

dtechie wrote:

lol understood. that was my feeling. i really didn't want to work for someone who felt A+ was more important than certifications that mean something

Be careful you don't step on toes here. Others have worked hard to earn an A+. To them, it means something.

dtechie

sprkymrk wrote:

dtechie wrote:

lol understood. that was my feeling. i really didn't want to work for someone who felt A+ was more important than certifications that mean something

Be careful you don't step on toes here. Others have worked hard to earn an A+. To them, it means something.

I know what you mean, and my apologies to anyone.

RussS

dtechie - As Plantwiz mentioned, it is an employers perogative to ask for whatever experience/cerification they feel suitable.
Having come into this industry fairly recently and having a long background in the Hospitality industry I have a pretty jaundiced view of certifications myself. Having time and time again hired people recently graduated from a 3/4 year course and finding they really had not too many clues about what a customer wants I used to add a phrase to all of my adverts (that used to really wind up the tutors at the culinary institutes ) ....

Please feel free to apply for this position, but to expect to be put through a rigorous interview (including some practical work) as I want a staff member that can actually cook .... not just holds a piece of paper saying they can!

Didn't make me popular in some quarters, but anyone applying for a job knew exactly where they stood - unlike some of the IT positions I applied for that wanted A+. Net+ and MCSE ..... for a support desk position

Ahriakin

The single biggest issue is that the vast majority of HR folks do not understand the certs they advertise. If they read that the A+ is the way to go in whatever newsletters they read then for the most part they will plaster it on every job advert and demand it religiously from candidates without actually bothering to know WHY and WHERE it is really needed or what level of experience substitutes. But that's the way it works, you have to market yourself to an audience that is ignorant of the meaning of the skills you have either through the cert or from experience. These are the same people that advertise network engineer jobs with CCNA,CCNP,CCIE or MCSE required, unrelated disciplines or a skill differential bordering on insane doesn't come into it, the keywords they read in other ad.s on Monster are king...
Speak their language if you want the job....

bighornsheep

I've never worked inbound tech support, but among the people that I know who currently work in tech support/help desk environments, the A+ is indeed religiously sought after. I've also heard of companies that have a A+/non-A+ pay scale where having the A+ gets you 2 dollars/hr more!

Some as you have come across will require and demand that you have your A+ before or within 2 months of being hired.

Different people are on different paths in IT, I think that for the big majority, A+ was the first step...so having it proves that you can do it.

pbradish

dtechie wrote:

First off, I have TONS of computer experience and I've been in the industry for bout 5 years now. I have my associates in computer science, and working towards a bachelors. On top of that, I received training through the Army AND I'm actively studying for my MCSA2k3. I just had an interview for a tech support/admin/all around computer company today who loved my resume and thought I was enough- HOWEVER, I don't hold any certifications. I'd be taken on at $12/hr and then given a raise to $14.50 or more upon certification- fine, understood. I then asked,
"so when I complete my first MS certification and achieve MCP status, I'll be fine, correct?"
"No, you'll need the A+ certification. Its a simple exam that is very important and in high demand in this industry."
"But suppose I had my full MCSE and a bachelors, would I need the A+?"
"Yes, because like I said its a requirement in this industry and customers like to see the A+ cert hanging above your desk."

This is pretty common in my area as well. Everyone likes to see that A+ and the Network+ is a nice bonus. True, neither of them hold a candle to an MCSA/MCSE but they're still worth having in my opinion. It's a great way to knock out that elective as well.

dtechie wrote:

Basically, they just want that $300 piece of paper sitting above my desk where my MCSA cert should be laughing at me saying, "haha! I just wasted your time and money for a much more useful certification all to make Susie and Johnny happy that their $300 HP is in the hands of a genuine CompTIA certified A+ technician!"

That piece of paper tells them that you're qualified to open up a computer and fix what needs to be fixed. People lie on their resumes all the time and get away with it - but if you lie about a certification you will be found out.

dtechie wrote:

I definitely need a job right now, but even $14.50/hr is cutting it low for the experience I have when I've been up to $17-$20/hr before. But $12/hr because I don't have the GED of the IT industry? Thats like saying, "wow! you have a Masters and all this experience....buuut you never got your Associates on the way". Doesn't industry standard basically say if one holds an AA, MCSA, and all the experience- the A+ cert is more or less a waste of time/money to pursue?

no comment.

dtechie wrote:

Now, should I just give in and take the job, someone with plenty of computer experience- how difficult is it to just go in, take the A+, and pass? I've never really researched A+ too much before, but from what I've been told- its easily doable do to the 60% passing score and downright easy questions for someone who has experience... or is it loaded with questions on things that no one has ever experienced in a practical day-to-day job?

If you have so much experience just brush up for a week and sit down to pass the exam - or look for a different job. Unfortunately, you'll probably see this A+ issue pop up time and time again especially in the corporate / mid sized business environment.

As someone else mentioned, you could always go into business for yourself. I did that a year ago and haven't looked back.