What qualifications do you need to be a sys admin?

mog27

How many years of help desk experience should one have before aggressively applying to be a systems administrator? And what certifications? And I'm also just wondering what else should someone have before being one.

nel

i think its about getting that first important break to actually get to work as a sys admin! im on 2nd line support helpdesk now and dying to step up but because i dont have the sys admin day to day experiance most employers bypass cases like this. ive had to undertake all my certs and a degree to try and push for that step up bcos thats what i want to do. i think even if i get the mcsa it wont be to impressive to potential employers for that type of job - i think the mcse would have a much stronger impression.

NinjaBoy

You could try getting your MCSA (Via the MCDST route). As the MCSA was designed for the System's admin, the MCSE is a more well known cert and is harder to attain - hence why it's a System's engineer cert (plus it also covers things that, for the majority, is not a system admins role). Anyway, you have to go for the certs that actually benefit not only yourself but also your company, there is no point at the moment going for the MCSA (Microsoft environment) if your company actually runs Apple servers (if that's the case go for the Apple Certified System Administrator - ACSA) or if you're running linux/Unix servers go for the vendors own cert.

Another key thing that is very preferable to becoming a System Admin is experience (sounds like catch 22, doesn't it?). Because you're already working in IT, make it known to your manager that you're looking for promotion. When you have your appraisal/chats to your manager, inform him/her that you wish to enhance your knowledge and want to job shadow the system's admin.

-Ken

mog27

So basically the best way to be a sys admin is to gain a lot of experience at the help desk and eventually move up at the company to be more of a systems administrator?

TechJunky

That is exactly correct.

I would say 3-5 years of experience with helpdesk or equivelant experience.

Most companies look for a candidate with the following.

Bachlor's in computer science.
2-3 years computer experience
and certifications preferred.
Most seem to want A+, N+, MCSE, CCNA

I am a systems administrator and have 6 years computer experience without a degree. I deal with a lot of other issues than a normal system admin due to the fact that I work for a small company.

I am going back to school this year to grind my way to get a Bachlor's degree so I can make more money in the long run.

When it really comes down to it. Education is everything. You can have all the experience in the world and still get past over by someone with a Bachlors due to the fact that they have HR monkeys looking for certian qualifications.

sprkymrk

Myself and a few other systems admins I know followed the typical route, which included:

1. Previous experience (2-4 years) as a tech either on a help desk or other support position.
2. Some certifications (anywhere form MCP to MCSE to Cisco or CompTIA - it varied).
3. Show personal aptitude, drive, ambition, and a reputation for going above and beyond the call.

Obviously that is a simplified list, each point could be expanded and detailed further. Hope that helps though.

Also, as an aside, I have also noticed that someone who spends more than about 5 years on a Help desk might end up tied to the Help Desk forever. I think it is either because they get "labeled" as a Help desk guy or possibly because they aren't motivated enough to do what it takes to move forward. I'm not sure, just what I have observed personally.

mog27

I worked at an ISP doing support (a very small ISP) for about 3 years. Right now Im looking for a help desk job at a larger company. I have A+, Net+, Linux+, Bachelors Degree and working towards my first Microsoft test (70-290). So you would recommend for me to work at a help desk somewhere a few more years while getting more certifications?

sprkymrk

I think three years is good, depending on what you did on a day-to-day basis. You also have to ask yourself if you are capable of performing at a reasonable level of competence in system administration. You don't need to know everything, but you also don't want to endanger the network or become a burden to other admins. You've got to be ready to handle your share of the work load.

If you don't think you're ready then do what it takes to make yourself ready, whether that's working in an upper level support position for another year or two, or completing an MCSE, or whatever.

Good luck!

Kaminsky

mog27 wrote:

How many years of help desk experience should one have before aggressively applying to be a systems administrator? And what certifications? And I'm also just wondering what else should someone have before being one.

In a previous job, the sys admin manager was frying chips working in the canteen 6 months before I joined. (this is for a 8,500 user site).

He got friendly with the previous sys admin as she had a panchant for the fried food section in the canteen. One day he gets chatting to her saying her job can't be that hard. Blah blah blah... She gives him a job. 2 months later, she leaves and he was in charge. Fair do though, he knew his stuff with Novell. Hadn't a clue with MS though.

Just to say, there is no set route. Get your face in there and hope the person with the jobdoesn't want to serve out their pension there.

nel

i agree there no set route. most i know get a lucky break. others get there through very hard work and others.....well they dont get there at all! make sure your one of the first 2!
im also trying to work my way up to sys admin. ive set myself realistic goals regarding the situation im in.

ive set:

1. earn BA hons degree - i think alot of people underestimate a degree and see certs as better things to get - i dont i think they are both equally important because those ppl in HR look for these things and because it can open so many doors (not just within IT).

2. work up to mcse level

3. get as much experiance as poss while working upto the first 2. i have 5 yrs experiance so far and im only 21.

4. depending what the future holds go for the ccna! at the moment this is not a viable option and it wont benefit me at this current time - why? because i neva get to work with the stuff and basically im not going to in my current job role. if i advance and step up a level or even move to a position where this becomes a viable option then it is something i will probably go for because i think its vital to have both cisco and MS certs - however valuable you rate each one.

but i know once i fin the 1st 2 options i will then go for the ccna. as this too opens many goals.

SRTMCSE

Like the others have said there is no set route. I worked doing tech support (mostly deskside support as there was only 8 people to support) for almost 2 years. Got a bunch of certs and landed a Net Admin position for a small bank and worked there for almost 2 years. Finally landed a real Net Admin position for a midsize corporate.

So I never really worked help desk, not a big fan of it. I'm just not a big people person, nothing personal to them, I'm just more comfortable looking at a problem and solving it. I have to field help desk calls occasionally here when they help desk is low on help and I take escalated calls but that's about it.

Like another poster mentioned, most people I see in help desk either move up and out fast or they get stuck there forever. See it happen all the time.

larkspur

probably most important, being thicked skinned and having a quick wit won't hurt...

lol..

sthomas

One of the best ways to get into a Network/Sys admin role is to Network with people. Your experience in Help Desk and/or Desktop Support will help but a lot of times it is not what you know but who you know.

RATTLERMAN

It is definitely who you know out here.I try to make it a point to meet as many people as possible. Untill then i will continue studying for my certz and working in my lab once i get everything set up

Technowiz

Being a recent career changer I'd like to share my own experience.

I worked as an electronics/instrumentation tech for 10 years. After traveling all over for a living I got burned out and decided a change was in order. So about this time last year I quit my job and started taking certification classes using my veterans benefits.

With no formal IT experience I had a really tough time landing that first IT job even as a PC tech. One small business consultant had called me for an interview and then not made the interview because they were at a customer site. I persisted in following up with them and they told me they had hired a "higher level" tech. I thanked them for the opportunity and later followed up again letting them know the courses I had taken (cost savings for them) and basically let them know I was very serious and committed to working in IT and was flexible in terms of both pay and hours. The persistence paid off and they brought me on part time on an on call basis even though looking back I know they didn't really have the work for me. As it turns out the guy they hired in my place quit after a few months and after about 7 months of unemployment I had landed my first IT job at $36k per year.

In the meantime I continued studying and passed my A+ and Net+. Working for this company was great but I was still struggling financially so went back on the market and was found by a headhunter. They sent me to a bank to interview for a helpdesk position. The day I was to interview the network manager was unable to interview me due to problems with their email server. So instead his boss the VP of technology for the bank interviewed me. He saw the classes I had taken and long story short the interview went really well. He said they also were looking for a level 2 network admin and felt that was a position I could grow into. Two days later I was offered the job. I had a solid technical background but I certainly wasn't hired for having a certain number of years experience. It was a win-win situation because they got someone to do the job for less than they would have had to pay a more experienced worker and I got the opportunity I was looking for.

Back to the original question it is problematic to suggest a minimum time of experience or certifications to be a sys admin. The more pertinent question is how long before you are able and ready to do that job? I know people who have been doing helpdesk for 10 years that couldn't even begin to take on a sys admin job because they don't advance their knowledge or skill set. So my suggestion is don't limit yourself to a certain time frame because no amount of time will guarantee you are ready to fill that role. Instead focus on gaining the skills you need to have to do the job you want.

Some say you need that lucky break and there is some truth to that. But your luck gets a lot better when you are seeking out opportunities and prepared for the opportunities you find. Optimism, hard work, and persistence has gotten me much further in the short time I have been in this field than anything else.

seuss_ssues

I can almost parallel with the previous post. Being honest, polite, and persistant pays off. I was initially looked over for my current position they were wanting someone with 5+ years experience. However once given the opportunity to meet the HR director and a short interview i was given the opportunity for an interview with all of the "key" IT people.

It was also my jump from "Onsite support / inhouse tech" to the next level. I dont have Network or Sys admin as my title but I do have Network and Analyst so its a move in the right direction.

With the 20 or so servers we have and hundreds of firewalls and other network appliances that i help support if i choose to hit the job market again in a few years I should have no problem having admin in the title.

Study and work hard
Obtain certs (without dumping)
apply to positions that you arent "qualified" for
and things will eventually happen

It is not a quick and easy process. I constantly revised my resume and checked job boards daily. Searching for a job is a tedious process. Job searching, resume building, certs, and interviews....its not easy but its all worth it in the end.

Slowhand

I think the basic difference between helpdesk and systems administration boils down to one thing, really: being able to work independently and think more broadly than simply "being a technician". Now, I'm not saying that helpdesk is all mindless work, but it can be very straightforward. You get a trouble-ticket, you solve the problem, you close the ticket. Notwithstanding lengthy problems or more complicated tasks, it tends to be a very linear job. A systems administrator, network engineer, or a systems engineer has to not only take care of linear, trouble-ticket style problems, but also work on larger projects that may require creating a whole new system of doing things. (Such as setting up a new AD domain, integrating new software into an older network, etc.) A systems administrator also tends to get much more abstract problems to work on, such as having to cope with security breaches, network lag, email server issues, or even things like administrating or troubleshooting custom scripts and applications that there may not be instruction manuals for.

Basically, it comes down to having the experience to step away from a linear, straightforward troubleshooting-type of job where you are often given tasks to do, and being able to really create and design not only solutions to problems, but ways of making the network or entire workplace more efficient, up-to-date, and/or secure.

sprkymrk

Technowiz wrote:

Back to the original question it is problematic to suggest a minimum time of experience or certifications to be a sys admin. The more pertinent question is how long before you are able and ready to do that job? I know people who have been doing helpdesk for 10 years that couldn't even begin to take on a sys admin job because they don't advance their knowledge or skill set. So my suggestion is don't limit yourself to a certain time frame because no amount of time will guarantee you are ready to fill that role. Instead focus on gaining the skills you need to have to do the job you want.

I enjoyed your story Technowiz, and I think this last statement is truly insightful.

Slowhand wrote:

I think the basic difference between helpdesk and systems administration boils down to one thing, really: being able to work independently and think more broadly than simply "being a technician". Now, I'm not saying that helpdesk is all mindless work, but it can be very straightforward. You get a trouble-ticket, you solve the problem, you close the ticket. Notwithstanding lengthy problems or more complicated tasks, it tends to be a very linear job. A systems administrator, network engineer, or a systems engineer has to not only take care of linear, trouble-ticket style problems, but also work on larger projects that may require creating a whole new system of doing things. (Such as setting up a new AD domain, integrating new software into an older network, etc.) A systems administrator also tends to get much more abstract problems to work on, such as having to cope with security breaches, network lag, email server issues, or even things like administrating or troubleshooting custom scripts and applications that there may not be instruction manuals for.

I think this is also a very good observation. I hadn't really noticed until you pointed it out, but at least in my experience this is a very true and accurate statement.

shednik

Technowiz wrote:

Back to the original question it is problematic to suggest a minimum time of experience or certifications to be a sys admin. The more pertinent question is how long before you are able and ready to do that job? I know people who have been doing helpdesk for 10 years that couldn't even begin to take on a sys admin job because they don't advance their knowledge or skill set. So my suggestion is don't limit yourself to a certain time frame because no amount of time will guarantee you are ready to fill that role. Instead focus on gaining the skills you need to have to do the job you want.

I can completely agree so many people at my company have been there for 3-4+ years doing helpdesk/desktop support and have no desire to further their knowledge. They feel knowing proprietary knowledge is all they need to know...I just don't understand why you wouldn't want to become better at your profession and make yourself more valuable.

mog27

Some really good responses. Thanks.

Worktruck

Well, the best way to do it I think is to get in good with your sys admin at work if it's possible. That way you maybe can get some on the job training and learn how some of the stuff works. You may not be able to do this during normal working hours since it's really not a part of your job duties, but since some things can't be done during normal working hours you could come in during your off time to pick up some more skills you may not get paid for it, but I think it could speed up the process. Granted you may not be able to put this down under your job description on your resume, but you can list it under the knowledge and skills portion of your resume.

My last job I was hired to do helpdesk work and write some ASP. I knew the Sys Admin he took me under his wing and I helped do raid array installs on weekends, learned how to work with AD and GPO, use Backup Exec, setup a windows 2000 RIS server, and became the backup system admin. What's funny is my entire time there I never did any ASP. I worked there for over a year and a half, and got offered my current job as a Sys Admin on my second job interview.

Networking with people and who you know maybe important in getting in the door, but I didn't know anybody when I came here. So, don't think it's not possible to get the job you want just on your own merit.

dom03

this thread has helped restore some faith in myself... I'm currently just started studying my ccna, and finding it increasingly difficult to burn the information into my brain.

I hope once i have my ccna cert i can then apply for some decent paying IT Network/Support Jobs and build my career from there.

I do already have about 3-4 years IT Technical exp, but mostly in PC repairs/troubleshooting/maintenance.

Jammywanks

You also need to work well w/ the end user. They come from all sorts of different backgrounds, some mean, some nice, some hot. You'll need to be good at explaining technical things in non-technical ways... the ability to translate in plain english.

I'm also working deskside support and they are up my rear on getting those tickets closed in a timely manner. You gotta resolve those calls fast.

jetdynamics

I really enjoy and very much can relate to what Technowiz said. Im also a career changer and got the opportunity to break into IT field. It is also about responsibility this is what I observe on my current job as Level 2 support to our system admins. Like me im also aiming for a higher position in IT fields and not get stuck as doing Helpdesk everyday of course we have our own goals. One thing im thinking is to advance yours skills, be familiar of what your systems admin is doing. Because once they noticed that you are already capable of what they are doing you will now then act as there Back up even though its not your job description its like positioning yourself in case the system admin guy resigns. Your already one step ahead. Here's my formula: Practice,Study,and Be Familiarize with your systems.

famosbrown

I haven't read all of the threads...yet...but I entered my Systems Admin job with only my MCSA, a bachelor's, and some experience managing a Help Desk. Since I've been in this position for about 10 months now, I've been told that I went up against guys who had MCSE, had 6+ years of experience, people with Master's degrees, etc. The interview was very technically detailed with questions, scenarios, etc. I was offered the job in the third interview. The Director stated that he was a little concerned by my lack of experience, but my performance in the three interviews warranted me a chance. At least once every two weeks, he tells me that he made the right choice, and it has came with a few pay raises since I've been there. If you know your stuff, have a "CAN DO" attitude, know when to ask for help, and have confidence in your skills and abilities, you are ready. Just my story on how I broke into the Sys. Admin role for a small organization that should be titled Systems Engineer/Project Manager/etc. due to the work I do and the small staff we have. I had about a year supervising Help Desk while I attaining my certs.

sprkymrk

And you can listen close to what famousbrown says - if you've read even a few of his past posts you'll know he has the "can-do" attitude of which he speaks.

Inc

You have to be calm. No matter what.

liven

My story:

Started at the bust of the .com bubble on the help desk for a major ISP. They were sold and I lost my job. Went to support for a major telco, they were sold and I lost my job. Went to a support job a major bank fixing ATM machines and credit card terminals... That job sucked and I left, to back to the ISP. The ISP was not small, with only 6 of us on support. We did tier 1,2, and 3 support. I got to do all kinds of stuff that support NEVER gets to do (configure routers, DNS, all aspects of connectivity from dialup, to T-1 to fiber to WIFI). The experience was priceless. Also I got to start playing with UNIX/LINUX. THat was the single biggest turning point for me. I got hands on experience with web hosting on *nix platforms...

This all happened over a period of about 4 years. During that time i got several certs(more towards the beginning) and was basically a sponge for data. Finally I got burnt on not getting cost of living raises etc and started looking around. I moved to a high paying support posistion for a major company and is stunk. Not even three months later the ISP called me back to develope PHP,PERL, SNMP and other cool stuff. Needless to say I took the new job, and the rest is history. Since then I have worn developer title, admin title, and no security admin (with a different company).

Its been almost 8 years, and I still learn a ton of new things eveyday.

Never give up, keep working hard, never burn a bridge, always do your best, and eventually someone will cut you a break. Just like everything else in life you have to earn your stripes.

And a degree is good, its a darn good thing to have. But I only have an associates degree in general studies, and I have moved further than all my friends with CS and MIS degrees....

Mishra

I'll give a little time line of my entire job experience... I'm only 22 now

* 14 years old, worked at a produce shop for 1-2 summers
* 15 years old, worked at a machine shop for 1 summer
* 16-18 years old, worked at Tumbleweed art time while going to high school
* 18 years old, worked through my brother (networking) to get an IT job at a 3 person small company. Worked there for 3 months until the company went out of business. Had an extreme can-do attitude and learned a TON there. (like what ping was) (started school)
* 18-19 years old, got a job at a consultant place working their NOC. Worked part time for 1 year. Got the job because I had a can do attitude, knew what ping was, and was in school.
* 19 years old, got another job at an IT consulting place with around 4 employees. Got the job because of my can-do attitude and ability to answer technical questions. Worked there for 3 months.
* 19 years old still... Got a job at a big cable company through networking and knowledge of my hard working attitude. Became a system administrator and worked there for 1.8 years. Finished school at 21. Finished my 70-270 test
* 22 years old, got another job as a network administrator making more money and being a little more independent. About to take my 70-290 test. Thats where I am now.