CCNP before CCNA

jvax

This has probably already been brought up but I couldn't find any threads.

Half way through my study for CCNA, right after finishing Odom's intro book, I started thinking
Since I am definitely planning to get CCNP within a 1 year time frame, why not do CCNP, or at least BSCI and BCMSN, before CCNA??
I know CCNP builds upon knowledge gained from CCNA study and preparation, but if you think about it, in my case at least, I don't think having CCNA would shorten the time needed to study CCNP material.
I mean I would still put in the same amount of time to study for CCNP with or without CCNA.
On the other hand, having CCNP, or at least BSCI and BCMSN, would certainly shorten the time needed to study CCNA from scratch.
After all, if you pass both BSCI and BCMSN then you are already familiar with all the routing and switching stuff covered on CCNA, right?
It not only makes sense, but it may be for some people who have a good understanding of networking fundamentals, me included, a good strategy to attack CCNP...

What do you guys think?

mwgood

Hmmm - you forgot to change your "working on CCNA" in your profile to "working on CCNP" - otherwise someone might take you seriously and tell you that the CCNA is a prerequisite for CCNP.

Next, you'll be going for your MCSE before your MCSA

skaeight

jvax wrote:

This has probably already been brought up but I couldn't find any threads.

Half way through my study for CCNA, right after finishing Odom's intro book, I started thinking
Since I am definitely planning to get CCNP within a 1 year time frame, why not do CCNP, or at least BSCI and BCMSN, before CCNA??
I know CCNP builds upon knowledge gained from CCNA study and preparation, but if you think about it, in my case at least, I don't think having CCNA would shorten the time needed to study CCNP material.
I mean I would still put in the same amount of time to study for CCNP with or without CCNA.
On the other hand, having CCNP, or at least BSCI and BCMSN, would certainly shorten the time needed to study CCNA from scratch.
After all, if you pass both BSCI and BCMSN then you are already familiar with all the routing and switching stuff covered on CCNA, right?
It not only makes sense, but it may be for some people who have a good understanding of networking fundamentals, me included, a good strategy to attack CCNP...

What do you guys think?

I think it's a bad idea. I'm taking BSCI Friday and I can assure you that Cisco assumes you know everything from CCNA. They don't slow down and explain the basic stuff. They just jump right into the details.

Just get CCNA first so you have the proper foundation. You'll save yourself a lot of frustration.

jvax

mwgood wrote:

Hmmm - you forgot to change your "working on CCNA" in your profile to "working on CCNP" - otherwise someone might take you seriously and tell you that the CCNA is a prerequisite for CCNP.

Next, you'll be going for your MCSE before your MCSA

I actually am planning on taking 70-270 last, so there, you've got me all figured out

Is there even a way to get MCSE without MCSA??

jvax

skaeight wrote:

I think it's a bad idea. I'm taking BSCI Friday and I can assure you that Cisco assumes you know everything from CCNA. They don't slow down and explain the basic stuff. They just jump right into the details.

Just get CCNA first so you have the proper foundation. You'll save yourself a lot of frustration.

You're probably right, but I don't think BSCI assumes prior knowledge that you cannot obtain by going back to your CCNA books.

Besides, I prefer focusing on one major networking area at a time, say routing, or switching, than having to study a wide range of topics for one exam.

So with BSCI and BCMSN at hand, I am sure CCNA will be a piece of cake.

Thanks for the input. I am just seeing this as an interesting challenge.

I wonder if any techexams member has ever done it...

Paul Boz

You need a CCNA to obtain the CCNP... It's a prerequisite. Just work on the CCNA, build a solid base, and work towards the CCNP after.

jvax

Paul Boz wrote:

You need a CCNA to obtain the CCNP... It's a prerequisite.

To obtain CCNP, yes, you need CCNA. But you don't need it to pass CCNP exams.

optimus

If you can't pass the CCNA right now then how on Earth can you expect to be a CCNP? CCNP is four tests and the CCNA is one test.

Prerequisites are made for a reason. Pass the CCNA first, then go from there. CCNA is the ultimate foundation for the Cisco certifications path, and without the CCNA you have no foundation.

This is what I call the "itchy feet" syndrome of people wanting to run or fly before they can walk. It has been seen on this board more than once.

mikej412

jvax wrote:

What do you guys think?

At first but then I decided you must be

I think its silly making the "harder" exams harder by not doing the prep work in the CCNA (and verifying by exam that you know and understand the material to the minimum requirement)... just to make the "easier" exam easier.

But there's no reason you can't do.

The Cisco Press books do a quick review at the beginning to refresh "old CCNAs" who finally decide to move up to the CCNP -- but if you don't have lots of experience you'd still probably want to pick up the CCNA books and go through the material you should know to start work on the CCNP level exams.

Paul Boz

jvax wrote:

Paul Boz wrote:

You need a CCNA to obtain the CCNP... It's a prerequisite.

To obtain CCNP, yes, you need CCNA. But you don't need it to pass CCNP exams.

So why on earth would you want to study and pass the CCNP exams, then have to turn around and study the CCNA material just to get the title you worked hard to get?

Besides, most of the stuff found in the CCNA training is automatically assumed as understood in nearly all of the CCNP level study material I have or have read. Cisco assumes that because they have a tiered system there's no reason to re-hash simple things previously covered by the lesser certifications.

jvax

I don't know why some people are so "close-minded". It's just another way to do it, period.

Many CCNP candidates for instance choose to read Doyle and other CCIE level books when studying for BSCI. That's because those books go into much more details on the core stuff than the CCNP cert guides.

I don't see why some of you guys see foolishness in the same logic when it comes to wanting to master the core routing and switching involved in CCNA by studying for BSCI and BCMSN.

The logic is the same and doesn't not deserve to be called "itchy-feet" syndrome because it has served many before you and me, and served them well.

jvax

Paul Boz wrote:

jvax wrote:

Paul Boz wrote:

You need a CCNA to obtain the CCNP... It's a prerequisite.

To obtain CCNP, yes, you need CCNA. But you don't need it to pass CCNP exams.

So why on earth would you want to study and pass the CCNP exams, then have to turn around and study the CCNA material just to get the title you worked hard to get?

Because that way, the CCNA exam would be easier, and you would be much more confident about it.

Besides, if you take and pass all CCNP exams, you wouldn't need cisco to confirm to you, by attributing to you CCNP status, that your have CCNP knowledge and skill. You'd know it for yourself.

Which is why many people choose to dive right into CCIE.

Paul Boz wrote:

Besides, most of the stuff found in the CCNA training is automatically assumed as understood in nearly all of the CCNP level study material I have or have read. Cisco assumes that because they have a tiered system there's no reason to re-hash simple things previously covered by the lesser certifications.

I agree with you. Again, it is just another way to do it.

Paul Boz

I'm not saying it's wrong or foolish, I'm just saying that there's no point in putting the cart before the buggy when Cisco has purposely laid out a training and certification program designed to transition from an entry understanding of the technology and concepts to a more advanced level. Sure I studied plenty of CCNP level material (mostly BSCI/Odom's CCIE TCP Vol1/2) when prepping for the CCNA, but it was to supplement the intro concepts laid out in the CCNA.

Again, I think it's great that people want to jump into the deeper and more in depth material, but I still feel obligated to explain how and why prerequisite exams and certifications exist and are beneficial. Chris Bryant mentions in his Train Signal videos that the CCNA and CCNP certifications and exams are the most important steps towards the CCIE, and stresses the fundamentals learned in the lower level certifications.

optimus

I just don't think you need to try and use advanced books like CCIE from Doyle to pass the CCNA. All the CCNA books are made to establish a proper foundation without having to proceed to advanced texts. I believe you MUST PROVE TO YOURSELF that you have the proper foundation in place before trying to understand advanced topics. Yeah, I guess you can have a CCIE book and reference it for certain items to maybe paint a clearer picture for CCNA items. Do I think it it required? Well, I didn't have to. All I needed was the actual equipment and my CCNA books. I established my foundation. That was proven by me going in and passing the CCNA examination. Case closed.

To me this advanced studying WEAKENS YOUR FOUNDATION, by trying to understand advanced topics before you pass the CCNA. Reminds me of Anakin Skywalker, trying to learn the advanced parts of the "FORCE" before he was ready. He didn't have the PROVEN foundation in place. Thus he fell hard.

Remember what I said: PASSED CCNA = PROVEN FOUNDATION, thus ready to move on to advanced studies. This is the basis of what I am trying to say. If all you want to do is try and find additional explanations of CCNA topics in CCNP/CCIE books, I guess that is fine, but to me it really could get confusing, and by the time you really are ready for CCNP/CCIE you are going to have to re-buy all those books, because there are newer additions out.

Ferret999

I see nothing wrong with going for the CCNP straight off if you want, even the CCIE if you really want. All people are trying to say is in most people's opinions it is easier to take lots of little steps to reach a big goal rather than try and jump to the end straight away.

I know from my own experience that I would get severley disheartened if I had been studying for months and had nothing to show for it. That's why I would recommend that you do your CCNA then your BSCI and so on. To me it is just to far to aim for a CCNP straight away.

I mean suppose in the months you were studying a really good job came up and you had no certs because you were still studying CCNP material what would you put on your CV? I have CCNA experience but I have not bothered to do the exam or I am half way through my CCNP but I have no exams to show for it, sounds crap does n't it?

Sometimes people claim they like to think out of the box and stuff like that but what you have to remember is the majority of the world does not like people thinking out of the box. The world likes order. It likes you to follow an orderly progression you do not go from Help Desk to Head of IT in one promotion most people move up the ladder slowly. So that is the approach I would recommend in pursuing your certs one step at a time.

Anyhow all the best whatever you decide

EdTheLad

Another silly thread, you start off by asking what people think, and when you don't get the replies you wanted you get upset.Who cares what exams you take in what order? Cisco don't, and if Cisco don't care, i don't.If you are at a competent level in Cisco and you feel you can study the more interesting ccnp material without going through the vague ccna details good for you.If you dont know how to set a password on a serial interface, setup a terminal emulator, know how data is encapsulated etc you are being silly, as there are some fundermentals you need so why not start properly and get the darn ccna out of the way.Maybe you should talk to Paul#4 as he had a similar thread where he is doing ccie without ccnp, so i dont see the point in you doing ccnp at all.
Why i never read a thread "finished my ccnp now going for ccna" , or "got my ccie number without doing ccnp" ? The big question is will you have the determination to finish what you start or will you be like so many others here who start similar threads and disappear.

Ferret999

See this is what I love about the Auzzies straight talkers no messing arround My Southern Hemisphere instincts have been blunted by to many years in the UK

sprkymrk

jvax wrote:

Paul Boz wrote:

So why on earth would you want to study and pass the CCNP exams, then have to turn around and study the CCNA material just to get the title you worked hard to get?

Because that way, the CCNA exam would be easier, and you would be much more confident about it.

You mean kind of like a 9th grader saying he is going to get his BA before he gets his High School Diploma, because that way his High School diploma will be easier? Good luck.

jvax wrote:

Besides, if you take and pass all CCNP exams, you wouldn't need cisco to confirm to you, by attributing to you CCNP status, that your have CCNP knowledge and skill. You'd know it for yourself.

But try selling that line to potential employers or your peers. And if you don't take any exams at all, but just study the books and get a job in the field and do well, you'd know the same thing. So your point is????

jvax wrote:

Which is why many people choose to dive right into CCIE.

Define "many".

jvax wrote:

I don't know why some people are so "close-minded".

I see, by disagreeing with your method (after you asked our opinion) we are "close minded".
If all you wanted was people to agree with you, you shouldn't ask for "opinions" on a forum. Remember, you said:

jvax wrote:

What do you guys think?

Once again, I have to agree with:

EdTheLad wrote:

Another silly thread, you start off by asking what people think, and when you don't get the replies you wanted you get upset.

shednik

sprkymrk wrote:

jvax wrote:

Paul Boz wrote:

So why on earth would you want to study and pass the CCNP exams, then have to turn around and study the CCNA material just to get the title you worked hard to get?

Because that way, the CCNA exam would be easier, and you would be much more confident about it.

You mean kind of like a 9th grader saying he is going to get his BA before he gets his High School Diploma, because that way his High School diploma will be easier? Good luck.

jvax wrote:

Besides, if you take and pass all CCNP exams, you wouldn't need cisco to confirm to you, by attributing to you CCNP status, that your have CCNP knowledge and skill. You'd know it for yourself.

But try selling that line to potential employers or your peers. And if you don't take any exams at all, but just study the books and get a job in the field and do well, you'd know the same thing. So your point is????

jvax wrote:

Which is why many people choose to dive right into CCIE.

Define "many".

jvax wrote:

I don't know why some people are so "close-minded".

I see, by disagreeing with your method (after you asked our opinion) we are "close minded".
If all you wanted was people to agree with you, you shouldn't ask for "opinions" on a forum. Remember, you said:

jvax wrote:

What do you guys think?

Once again, I have to agree with:

EdTheLad wrote:

Another silly thread, you start off by asking what people think, and when you don't get the replies you wanted you get upset.

Well put...broken down to each point

The way I see it study whatever you want, but to officially achieve the CCNP status you have to obtain the prerequisites there's no way around it. I also agree that itd be better to understand the basic topics in and out before diving into the more advanced ones...just my 2 cents

BeaverC32

It not only makes sense, but it may be for some people who have a good understanding of networking fundamentals, me included, a good strategy to attack CCNP...

If you have a good understanding already, why not bang out the CCNA now and get it over with? Your reasoning makes NO sense to me.

Just because you want to obtain the CCNP using a different method than everyone else does not automatically make you insightful, and us "close-minded". In fact, you should avoid being close-minded yourself and perhaps listen to others in this thread that are very knowledgeable in Cisco, and have proven they know what they're talking about. Just a suggestion.

teezee

Honestly, it's so so... i don't know really! how to xplain your actions now. In ma opinion yes you can go for CCNP first b4 CCNA but i guarantee you of one thing.... BIG TIME FAILURE... no disrespect intended but it's the honest truth! You can't be 2yrs old and what to start putting on cloths and shoes that an 18yrs old is putting on.. it's no brainers that you need to be an NA first in the world of Cisco b4 becoming an NP. Take it one at a time ma dear friend. Being an NP is not beans or rice it's some hard work cos there's alot for you to understand that NA is just what you need.

hogan868

There are no shortcuts, you are going to have to earn the CCNA before you qualify for the CCNP. We must all crawl before we walk.