Cayalyst switches vs. routers

binarysoul

My understanding is that catalyst switches are L2 and L3 devices, i.e. they do both routing and switching. What are the pros and cons of catalyst switches?

I assume they can only be used at the core and not at the 'branch-office' level. Are these devices covered in CCNP material? Anybody has had experience with catalyst switches? If you have catalyst switches, why need another switch?

networker050184

The L3 switches are used in the core and distribution layers. You can use them for inter VLAN routing eliminating the need for a router on a stick set up. They are covered on the CCNP BCMSN. You wouldn't really need another switch if you had one depending on the size and needs of your network. All of our switches are mostly 3750 (waste of money for what we use some of them for) but a lot of them could easily be replaced by 2950s with the same effect. We use some for inter VLAN routing and gateway redundency.

dtlokee

binarysoul wrote:

My understanding is that catalyst switches are L2 and L3 devices, i.e. they do both routing and switching. What are the pros and cons of catalyst switches?

I assume they can only be used at the core and not at the 'branch-office' level. Are these devices covered in CCNP material? Anybody has had experience with catalyst switches? If you have catalyst switches, why need another switch?

Pros and cons vs what? Cisco routers? A server with 2 NICs (soft router)?

Cisco brands all their L2 and L3 switches as Catalyst and they have dofferent models for different purposes.

The 2960, 3560 for wiring closets in small to medium sized businesses up to the 4500 and 6500 series switches for wiring closets in large businesses.

The placement in the network totally depends on the requirements of the device. You could use a 3560 as a distribution layer switch in a site with 200 users and as an access layer switch in a wiring closet at a site with 1000 users.

The 6500's are generally thought of as being distribution and core layer devices but could fill the role of access layer when a large number of ports is required. This is also a typical deployment for the 4500 series switches as well.

There are a large number of choices, much of the decision of what to use will depend on the requirements, things like total bandwidth, number of ports, QoS and routing, and PoE requirements.

There are also sub-optimal methods for getting the same results. For example, whould a 4507 with 2 supervisor engines, and 4 48 port 10/100 interface blades be a better choice than 4 3560 48 port switches connected together with gigabit uplinks? The 4507 would be a better choice because it has a backplane of 64Gb/s vs the individual 1Gb/s uplinks when using 3560's. The issue would be cost, the 4507 would be far more expensive. In this example it would be in excess of $50,000 retail (depending on your discount it could be 50% of that when done). The cost for the 3560's would be around $10,000

mgeorge

Also to add to lokee's post, 4500 and 6500's support in state software upgrades. with redundant supervisor engines, you can upgrade the ios with out schedualing down time, this is a major advantage over the 3560's or any other 1u non stacked switch.

Typically when you have 1 sup fail, the traversal time is typically within 150ms, therefore the redundant backup initilization is transparent to the end users, connections are not dropped, streaming audio continues, and service resumes like nothing happens.

Of course i must add that the new 3750E is really nice, 48 10/100/1000 PoE ports 2x 10g slots with a 68Gbps switching fabric. Man i'd like to have a few of these in my house

Rearden

Wow, I thought 3560Gs were good.

dtlokee

Rearden wrote:

Wow, I thought 3560Gs were good.

The 3560g is an outstanding switch.

A 3750E in one's house would be a waste of a perfectly good switch

If it wasn't for 3 WAP in my house I wouldn't use a Cisco switch at all, it's not needed. I use a 3550-24 POE and an ASA 5505 for Internet connectivity and remote access VPNs, even that's overkill.

rossonieri#1

dtlokee wrote:

...and an ASA 5505 for Internet connectivity and remote access VPNs, even that's overkill.

dt,

speaking ASA,
i think i need to learn a whole lot more than firewalling
man, i did an ASA 5515 quotation today - and whats this? whats that?
CSC, TMCM etc etc...
well i know CSC, TMCM - but there are one too many modules you have to pick
got a headache - even my sales people got dizzy if it comes to ASA and CSS.

cheers

dtlokee

Yeah, I typically don't use the CSC-SSM for the ASA, the AIP-SSM has been more popular. The CSC seems to be gaining more ground, but I think many companies aren't ready to give up their current virus software and use things like websense to control content. Too bad you can't install both of them in the same ASA chassis.

Mishra

dtlokee wrote:

binarysoul wrote:

My understanding is that catalyst switches are L2 and L3 devices, i.e. they do both routing and switching. What are the pros and cons of catalyst switches?

I assume they can only be used at the core and not at the 'branch-office' level. Are these devices covered in CCNP material? Anybody has had experience with catalyst switches? If you have catalyst switches, why need another switch?

Pros and cons vs what? Cisco routers? A server with 2 NICs (soft router)?

Cisco brands all their L2 and L3 switches as Catalyst and they have dofferent models for different purposes.

The 2960, 3560 for wiring closets in small to medium sized businesses up to the 4500 and 6500 series switches for wiring closets in large businesses.

The placement in the network totally depends on the requirements of the device. You could use a 3560 as a distribution layer switch in a site with 200 users and as an access layer switch in a wiring closet at a site with 1000 users.

The 6500's are generally thought of as being distribution and core layer devices but could fill the role of access layer when a large number of ports is required. This is also a typical deployment for the 4500 series switches as well.

There are a large number of choices, much of the decision of what to use will depend on the requirements, things like total bandwidth, number of ports, QoS and routing, and PoE requirements.

There are also sub-optimal methods for getting the same results. For example, whould a 4507 with 2 supervisor engines, and 4 48 port 10/100 interface blades be a better choice than 4 3560 48 port switches connected together with gigabit uplinks? The 4507 would be a better choice because it has a backplane of 64Gb/s vs the individual 1Gb/s uplinks when using 3560's. The issue would be cost, the 4507 would be far more expensive. In this example it would be in excess of $50,000 retail (depending on your discount it could be 50% of that when done). The cost for the 3560's would be around $10,000

You mean 10,000 dollars a piece for the 3560s... Meaning it would be about 40,000 for all 4 3560s right?

dtlokee

Mishra wrote:

dtlokee wrote:

binarysoul wrote:

My understanding is that catalyst switches are L2 and L3 devices, i.e. they do both routing and switching. What are the pros and cons of catalyst switches?

I assume they can only be used at the core and not at the 'branch-office' level. Are these devices covered in CCNP material? Anybody has had experience with catalyst switches? If you have catalyst switches, why need another switch?

Pros and cons vs what? Cisco routers? A server with 2 NICs (soft router)?

Cisco brands all their L2 and L3 switches as Catalyst and they have dofferent models for different purposes.

The 2960, 3560 for wiring closets in small to medium sized businesses up to the 4500 and 6500 series switches for wiring closets in large businesses.

The placement in the network totally depends on the requirements of the device. You could use a 3560 as a distribution layer switch in a site with 200 users and as an access layer switch in a wiring closet at a site with 1000 users.

The 6500's are generally thought of as being distribution and core layer devices but could fill the role of access layer when a large number of ports is required. This is also a typical deployment for the 4500 series switches as well.

There are a large number of choices, much of the decision of what to use will depend on the requirements, things like total bandwidth, number of ports, QoS and routing, and PoE requirements.

There are also sub-optimal methods for getting the same results. For example, whould a 4507 with 2 supervisor engines, and 4 48 port 10/100 interface blades be a better choice than 4 3560 48 port switches connected together with gigabit uplinks? The 4507 would be a better choice because it has a backplane of 64Gb/s vs the individual 1Gb/s uplinks when using 3560's. The issue would be cost, the 4507 would be far more expensive. In this example it would be in excess of $50,000 retail (depending on your discount it could be 50% of that when done). The cost for the 3560's would be around $10,000

You mean 10,000 dollars a piece for the 3560s... Meaning it would be about 40,000 for all 4 3560s right?

The 3560-48PS-S retails for around 6500, but with typical discounts they can be had for under 3000, so I guess around 12-15k for all 4. It depends on your discount rate. I am not including smartnet in the prices.

Mishra

dtlokee wrote:

The 3560-48PS-S retails for around 6500, but with typical discounts they can be had for under 3000, so I guess around 12-15k for all 4. It depends on your discount rate. I am not including smartnet in the prices.

I wish we could get it for those prices. We priced out 5 3560 48 10/100 TS switches and 1 24 port of the same kind, with 4 hour smartnet for 27K. The 48PS priced to be 45K for the same amount.

I did a price comparison and it seemed to only be a difference of about 8000 dollars between the 3560gs and the 4506.

larkspur

4500 and 6500's support in state software upgrades. with redundant supervisor engines, you can upgrade the ios with out schedualing down time

how so?

I plan to take my hybird 6509 to ios this fall. I had been under the impression you have to take these off lin. runn sup 720's.