College Graduate Starting Salary Article

Here is a MSN article that has a few IT related jobs in it.

http://msn.careerbuilder.com/custom/msn/careeradvice/viewarticle.aspx?articleid=1105&SiteId=cbmsnhp41105&sc_extcmp=JS_1105_home1&GT1=10372&cbRecursionCnt=1&cbsid=097a9c2430454d629bc880214a5e84a5-242210187-J9-5

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Smallguy

Article's like this make me cranky because they are setting false expectations

how many people here actually made 53k when they first started out I would say the majority of people started out at 40K or less working in a call center even if they had a CS degree or doing very basic programming for 10.00-15.00 an hour

boyles23

I think that these articles aren't necessarily setting false hope, we are talking about college graduates and it depends on what area they are in. There is no hard fast rule for how much one can make right out of college, with one cert or just a couple years experience. Sometimes what job you find at a certain pay isn't just based on your exact computer knowledge, there are other experiences and skills that come into play also.

Regards,

Jonathan

garv221

Smallguy wrote:

Article's like this make me cranky because they are setting false expectations

how many people here actually made 53k when they first started out I would say the majority of people started out at 40K or less working in a call center even if they had a CS degree or doing very basic programming for 10.00-15.00 an hour

I disagree with you. I have known graduates from D1 schools to get those numbers, along with other high end universities. Big difference between a DeVry and University of Michigan, like 30K starting.

blargoe

I call bulls**t on those numbers being the AVERAGE starting salary for entry level college grads with no experience. No way in hell.

BeaverC32

My college boasted AVERAGE starting salaries as well...some of the salaries being in the 55-60k range. Of all the classmates I am still in touch with, NONE of them make anywhere near 53k/year. In my area, 40k for a starting position with a Bachelor's is more on the HIGH end of what a recent college grad can expect to make.

I can believe people working in areas with much higher standards of living make 53k+, but I think a starting salary like that in my area is very rare.

cdad2000

Experience is the key to success. These numbers are all fabercated.

garv221

Hey call it like you see it then. I see it as about right, coming from a well established university with good placements, yes it does happen very often. Large companies like those high end degrees. A guy who worked in my IT Dept was hired into an engineering department for 59K in Texas after graduating from Michigan State, he was 22. None of those jobs will require tweaking out a desktop pc, server or Cisco router.

boyles23

Garv,

I appreciate the link and I had read it also just previous to you posting it. Everyone has there own opinion but I am of the thinking that every situation is different and that pay range is possible.

Regards,

Jonathan

blargoe

They must be using 1999 data.

elover_jm

blargoe wrote:

They must be using 1999 data.

LOL

Netstudent

thats kinda what I was thinking as well.

There are too many variables that influence a salary to say that "one size fits all" in the industry

int80h

Smallguy wrote:

Article's like this make me cranky because they are setting false expectations

how many people here actually made 53k when they first started out I would say the majority of people started out at 40K or less working in a call center even if they had a CS degree or doing very basic programming for 10.00-15.00 an hour

Why would a CS grad start out at a call center? That makes no sense.

snadam

int80h wrote:

Smallguy wrote:

Article's like this make me cranky because they are setting false expectations

how many people here actually made 53k when they first started out I would say the majority of people started out at 40K or less working in a call center even if they had a CS degree or doing very basic programming for 10.00-15.00 an hour

Why would a CS grad start out at a call center? That makes no sense.

because its the best way to get your feet wet in a company, and that position is the most available with least amount of experience required. Or, they could be a PC tech, network technician, help desk associate, Jr Network Admin, etcetera. Whatever you want to call the job title, most people start off at entry level jobs. THAT IS, of course, if this student did an internship or work part-time already in a network environment; its a different story. That to me counts as good experience.

Not to mention most companies have a "probationary period" where they offer you decent salary for 90+ days up to a year, and then give you an official review for an increase in salary, benefits etc.

oh and BTW, I made $15\hr for 3 years (2 at helpdesk, and 1 as net admin before raise)

I would agree with smallguy, saying that the MAJORITY of people make 40k or less out of college. There are always those few people that make it big right out of the gate. But for the rest of us, you need experience to back up your degree if you want to land the sweet job, and thats that.

blargoe

int80h wrote:

Why would a CS grad start out at a call center? That makes no sense.

Sure, it makes no sense if you've never been there before...

Have you ever been a CS grad with no experience in the 21st century? These people are speaking the truth. Fortunately, it's only temporary as long as you have the aptitude and a decent work ethic. This is why many of us are screaming at the top of our lungs to get some job experience BEFORE graduation.

blargoe

duplicate post

garv221

Where did everyone graduate from & with what degree?

BeaverC32

I graduated with a Bachelor's of Science in Computer Science in Information Systems. I graduated from a state university here in New York, with my average GPA of ~3.4. I had a 3 month internship the year prior to graduating, which involved a little bit of everything (system administration, SQL Server, .NET programming, ColdFusion, etc). I had no certifications at the time I was hired.

Started at 40k, but expect at least a 10% pay increase within the next month.

snadam

lets see, Ive changed "careers" about 3 times already. I first did physical education (while I was playing college Baseball). Then I was in a film program for 2 years and finished a certificate of completion, but the faculty and I did not get along well and decided to cut my losses. Then I took a break from school, and then found computers. Right now, Im doing a mix of school and certs. Im currently focusing on certs. Once thats done, I should finally be finishing up my associates degree either in computer information systems or Microsoft Techonology. FYI these are all done at my Jr college.

I started out of "college" at $15/hr. at helpdesk. After 2 years there, they bumped up my responsibilities as the on-site Net admin, but not my pay. That is, until a few months ago.

as you can see from my track record, I am a firm believer in good experience before the good salary.

bighusker

Smallguy wrote:

Article's like this make me cranky because they are setting false expectations

how many people here actually made 53k when they first started out I would say the majority of people started out at 40K or less working in a call center even if they had a CS degree or doing very basic programming for 10.00-15.00 an hour

It really depends how you define "starting out." I got my computer science degree in May and within a month I had a web development job that paid over $53,000. However, it was hardly my first job. I had been in a system administration role for the previus 6 months at $40,000, and I got a raise to $45,000/year for my final 2 weeks of work there (it was a condition of me graduating). Prior to that, I worked at the same company for $15/hour as a desktop support technician . Prior to that (over 3 years ago), I worked in some crappy local computer repair center for $8/hour. I didn't graduate from Harvard or MIT either....just the local state school that offered me a full-ride scholarship out of high school. It probably didn't hurt that I finished with a 3.87 GPA though.

If you work at McDonald's or Subway throughout college and never seek out an internship or part-time IT/development, then it's probably a lot harder to start out at $53,000+. It's certainly not impossible, but degree+experience in always your best bet. Even though I had no professional web develoment experience prior to this job (only personal and academic), the fact that I had been working in a corporate IT department for over 2 years showed that I could be succesful in a corporate environment.

My own advice is to get an internship or some relevant work experience *during* college. Don't wait until after you graduate to "get your feet wet". Even if you're working at Geek Squad, your campus computer lab, or (God forbid) a tech support call center, at least it will be relevant to your education. Most importantly, it will sure look a lot better on your resume than "mowed lawns" or "flipped burgers."

mrj

Those numbers are ridiculous unless you're working at some fab shop in NYC/SFBA, in which case the COL is adjusted accordingly and the pay would be just as low there as in the other 90% of America.

IMO, in IT (not programming, etc), the influence of the degree doesn't kick in for several years. Once you are mid-level or going for management areas, they're quite pivotal, though.

What I mean is that, degree or not, in this industry most of us will start out making $12-16/hr on a help desk for 1-3 years, and branch off from there, be it Networking, or Systems, Engineering, or whatever else. And even on the branch I seriously doubt you'll pull in more than 35-40k initially.

My numbers are based on the average American cost-of-living, not NYC or SFBA, or wherever else, so obviously adjust accordingly.

Definitely, and I can't stress it enough, find a low level support position, or internship WHILE IN school, or PRIOR to school if you want to accelerate the process.

I've just turned 23 and have been in Administration for several years now - not enough for my CISSP though, blah.

seuss_ssues

mrj wrote:

I've just turned 23 and have been in Administration for several years now - not enough for my CISSP though, blah.

You know everyday i look at the calendar and im still havent met the requirements

Guess ive got a couple of years of study time....

sir_creamy_

garv221 wrote:

A guy who worked in my IT Dept was hired into an engineering department for 59K in Texas after graduating from Michigan State, he was 22.

So what? 10 more guys graduated from Michigan State and now cut my grass for a living. But I will agree that in SOME cases the school in which one graduates from does play a SLIGHT role in placements and salary.

garv221

sir_creamy_ wrote:

garv221 wrote:

A guy who worked in my IT Dept was hired into an engineering department for 59K in Texas after graduating from Michigan State, he was 22.

So what?

How much do you make? lol

GregD

Numbers look about right to me, and I live in a place with a relatively low cost of living - The DFW area. Depending on where you live (A lot of Cali, NYC, etc), those numbers posted are really lower middle class after you take into account the extremely high cost of living.

What skews the numbers is that certain areas have much higher salaries, but the salaries also don't "bottom out" as proportionally as they rise with the COL.

So for a national average, I could very well see those numbers being quite accurate.

sir_creamy_

garv221 wrote:

sir_creamy_ wrote:

garv221 wrote:

A guy who worked in my IT Dept was hired into an engineering department for 59K in Texas after graduating from Michigan State, he was 22.

So what?

How much do you make? lol

Get a job at parc and then we'll talk

Slowhand

I think I want to weigh in on this as well, seeing as how Careerbuilder is based out of the Bay Area. I live a stonesthrow from San Francisco, and as mentioned, the cost of living is astronomical. It's true that $50,000 per year is considered middle-class here, even low-to-middle, if you're actually living in the city. (Considering the cost of a small 1-bedroom apartment can cost you anywhere from $800 - $1,300 per month in the outlying areas, and as high as $2,000 a month in the city, you can see where I'm coming from.)

To give an idea of the wages, I can reference some of my recent job interviews. My last job paid $35,000 per year. That was the highest I'd ever gotten paid before, and I needed the work at the time, so I wasn't about to turn it down. Recently, though, the hiring managers I've talked to have given me funny looks when I've told them what I got paid; some even went so far as to ask "why were you being paid so low?!?". My background isn't exactly an ideal one, I'm still working on my college degree(s) and I have only about one, maybe one and a half years' worth of professional experience that doesn't rely on the ol' "I used to do consulting" situation. Between the certs listed to my left, the specific technologies I can safely claim to have an understanding in, and a lot of interviewing, it's perfectly reasonable for me to ask for $50,000 - $55,000 per year for entry-level IT work. Well, except straight-up helpdesk, which would drop down to about $45,000 at most places around here, these days.

If I had my Bachelor's degree, I could easily have the kind of clout needed to apply for and get jobs that are in the $60,000 range. The certs have shifted from "things you should already know" to "how long before you could get <blank> certified?", with the assumption being that if you're getting the cert, you're going to be able to do the work. (Or else.) Even degrees and certs, especially the last couple of years, have been downplayed to a certain extent, based on the responses I've gotten in my job-searching. My last employer, as well as the companies that I've talked to know, are a lot more concerned with what I actually know than what pieces of paper I have. A lot of them even go so far as to do their own "testing" during the interview process, setting up scenarios and questions to see what my skill-level is.

Still, even lacking the "required" degree for the last interview I went to, they've called me back several times, and are checking my references throughout the week. When I was asked how much I wanted to get paid, I told them that I wanted around $50,000 per year. The manager nodded casually, writing the number down, and looked me straight in the eye when he said "that's not a problem". The position will be something along the lines of helpdesk, with some long-standing projects that dip more into the systems administrator's bag of tricks.

So, as mentioned, the pay scale differs from area to area. The fact that UC Berkeley is five minutes away, Stanford is just across the water, and there are enough vocational schools around here to re-train India probably has something to do with the expectations, quantity, and budgets of the IT companies that are hiring, and vice-versa. In contrast, one of my current roommates spent a year living in Oklahoma with about the same background as I have, and he could barely find work, let alone anything that paid even close to what it's like out here. In fact, he ended up taking a job as a bartender since it paid better than IT, where he was.

garv221

sir_creamy_ wrote:

Get a job at parc and then we'll talk

Lets talk.

Slowhand- Yes, areas are a huge factor in those ratings.

sir_creamy_

Hahah, I love you garv. You remind me of a younger me. Your resilience has not gone unnoticed.

snadam

like slow and garv already mentioned cost of living is extremely huge variable that people tend to miss. I would agree that this is the average for the nation, but I would prefer to see a "by reigon" or "by state" analysis.

I grew up in the Bay Area, and Slowhand is right on the mark with those figures. Ironically, I might actually be going back there for some work.

On a completely different subject, Slowhand, Ive been meaning to ask you, what city do you hail from anyway?

Slowhand

I'm currently living in the East Bay, in San Pablo. (Rent is cheap here.) I was working in Marin, over in Novato, but the next job looks like it's going to be smack in the middle of Berkeley. Given, Oakland and San Francisco companies pay better, but the commute is nice and easy. Five minutes on the I-80, and I'm there. . . even with bumper-to-bumper traffic.