Cheaters

andyt

Well i failed with a 732 on saturday I used traditional study methods, Mcgraw-Hill book , Boson and exam cram. studied my ass off.

looking round the net for some additional material for 802 I came across forum name where people brag about CHEATING on Certification Exams MODERATED, there are literally hundreds of people posting on there bragging about how they passed by using various braindumps and pass software makes me sick,
to think these fools have the CCNA cert and dont know anything!!!

Netstudent

Don;t worry about them man. They are fakes and will never make it anyways. They aren't really getting the cert. like you are. They are just acting like it. Keep your head up and don't let them perturb you. You will get the credential if you just maintain perceverance.

sprkymrk

Well i failed with a 732 on saturday I used traditional study methods, Mcgraw-Hill book , Boson and exam cram. studied my ass off.

Hey Andy, sorry you didn't make it this time.

Wait a second, what's that you're sitting on? No, not your chair, your... See, it's still there. You didn't really study your .... off. Now get back there and hit the books until you do! :P

Good luck.

Mikdilly

Seems to me the way to thwart the braindumpers is to make the test all simulations, what better way to prove you know your stuff and not be something you can memorize than to actually do it on the router or switch. But instead they want to come up with ambiguous multiple choice questions that leave people no choice but to turn to braindumps. I'm not condoning the use of braindumps but to this day i can remember questions on the exam that I still don't know if the answer i gave was correct because I couldn't find any resource to explain what the answer should be.

BeaverC32

But instead they want to come up with ambiguous multiple choice questions that leave people no choice but to turn to braindumps.

Sorry, I beg to differ. The choice people can make is to learn from their mistakes and hit their books, whitepapers, discussion forums, etc. to understand a topic more thoroughly.

snadam

BeaverC32 wrote:

Sorry, I beg to differ. The choice people can make is to learn from their mistakes and hit their books, whitepapers, discussion forums, etc. to understand a topic more thoroughly.

I agree. Cheating is 99.999% a choice. The .001% are the ones that had no idea they were cheating (it CAN happen, but its extremely rare).

mikej412

Mikdilly wrote:

But instead they want to come up with ambiguous multiple choice questions that leave people no choice but to turn to braindumps.

Huh? If you've taken the exam and think the questions were ambiguous, then you probably didn't study the recommended/suggested material well enough.

If you've just read a ****, then sure, most of the questions probably wouldn't make any sense.

andyt wrote:

I came across forum name where people brag about CHEATING on Certification Exams MODERATED, there are literally hundreds of people posting on there bragging about how they passed by using various braindumps and pass software

It's fun when you start to think about those people. If they STEAL the **** they use to ****, would they LIE on a job interview about it? Are they too LAZY or too STUPID to learn the material on their own so that they could pass without CHEATING? Luckily, most of those people can't make it past a simple phone interview, and the few who do don't make it past the first technical interview or reference check.

No company that I've ever worked for posted a job listing looking for LAZY STUPID people who LIE, ****, and STEAL.

Mikdilly

Maybe ambiguous was the wrong word to use but doesn't it seem like a test made up entirely of simulations would be a truer gauge of one's knowledge and ability rather than 40 something mutliple choice questions? I mean, anyone could guess and possibly get enough multiple choice questions right, how are are you going to guess on a router simulation? I'd even be for taking away the command line help.

Kcolon1

WHATS THE FORUM!?! lol

mikej412

Mikdilly wrote:

but doesn't it seem like a test made up entirely of simulations would be a truer gauge of one's knowledge and ability

Yes, or a proctored Lab Exam, like the CCIE

At some point, learning the material would be easier than cheating.

Kcolon1 wrote:

WHATS THE FORUM!?!

I'm not sure about the original URL, but if you do fine it, here's another site you'd probably be using later.

Netstudent

mikej412 wrote:

Mikdilly wrote:

but doesn't it seem like a test made up entirely of simulations would be a truer gauge of one's knowledge and ability

Yes, or a proctored Lab Exam, like the CCIE

At some point, learning the material would be easier than cheating.

Kcolon1 wrote:

WHATS THE FORUM!?!

I'm not sure about the original URL, but if you do fine it, here's another site you'd probably be using later.

HAHA thats great..

rebelrat

Took the 640-801 CCNA exam again after 7 years and passed it on the last day it was available. I had previously taken the 640-507 and passed it in 2000 on the first attempt, but because I had been continously working with 2600 series routers and 2900 series catalyst switches over the last seven years, I let it lapse. Transcender send me a special offer for the CCNA test prep software and that made me aware of the Nov. 6 deadline for the 640-801. This motivated me to say why not re-certify. The studying was a lot easier because of the work experience, nevertheless some of the conceptual questions were quite tricky. I prepared for 4 weeks and it worked. Used Cisco's ICND book, Transcender and CCNA prep center test preps, plus hands on configuration on real Cisco routers and switches at work - separate from the live network.

Most of the IP scenario questions would be difficult to answer with braindump information alone, in particular summary addresses, VLSM. The multiple choice questions were somewhat easier than what I expected from working with the CCNA prep center, but some of the mutilple scenario questions were actually quite tricky. To pass this exam stricktly with braindump cramming would be extremely difficult.

I will work on the BCSI next, studying for the CCNA was very motivating and gratifying. Key factor was probably the work experience which made many of my choices in the exam the obviously only correct answer.

Besides, what would you do with a CCNA that you obtained from a boot camp or braindump cramming - after 2 months most of the knowledge is gone because the fundamental understanding was never achieved. Could be dangerous on the job when the entire network is down due to a bad access list or IP address.

sprkymrk

rebelrat wrote:

Besides, what would you do with a CCNA that you obtained from a boot camp or braindump cramming - after 2 months most of the knowledge is gone because the fundamental understanding was never achieved.

Very good observation, thanks for stating it.
And congrats on your re-pass.

Mishra

snadam wrote:

BeaverC32 wrote:

Sorry, I beg to differ. The choice people can make is to learn from their mistakes and hit their books, whitepapers, discussion forums, etc. to understand a topic more thoroughly.

I agree. Cheating is 99.999% a choice. The .001% are the ones that had no idea they were cheating (it CAN happen, but its extremely rare).

Most of the people that use braindumps that I've met honestly have no idea that it is cheating.

r_durant

Most of the people that use braindumps that I've met honestly have no idea that it is cheating.

Hmmm...quite interesting!! Were they just not interested in the source of their learning material...you have to at least ask someone about its credibility...

Most of the places that advocate ****, there are tons of posts/info saying how it's like the real test or people asking questions about if it has changed and so on...

I think these people are just turning a blind-eye to the fact...I can agree to a noobie not knowing, but as you progress, there's no way you can go right through to sitting the exam and not know what a braindump is...

Netstudent

The people who don't know the difference between braindumps and ligit practice tests like transcenders, probaly aren't the sharpest tools in the shed. If they got far enough to take the exam and never came to the realization that they were using actual test questions to supplement any "real studying", then they probably aren't going to get very far in the field anyways. Neither will the people who knowingly use **** as thier main source of study.

Mishra

I've known very smart people who didn't know it was cheating. Not everyone really surfs the web about studying for tests and reads people comments. Most people who are trying to do the tests are just doing them on their free time and they grab a book and search google for "practice tests" and buy the first thing they see.

I've heard a ton of people "Yeah I used ****. It was pretty good and I would recommend it." "Did you know it is cheating?" "Cheating? It is a practice test".

I don't see how it is easy to distinguish when you are just trying to get your Cisco cert for a raise and go on with life. They aren't really certification junkies, most of them do it for a certain goal and just use the first thing that google shows (which is usually braindumps).

MODERATED

All kinds of em.

Netstudent

ehhh your probably right...but still, somethings not right if you never figure that out.

mikej412

Mishra wrote:

I've known very smart people who didn't know it was cheating.

If they didn't figure out that a **** was cheating after taking one exam and recognizing the questions -- then they aren't very smart.

If they did figure it out and continue to use them, then they are LAZY. Or do you consider them SMART if they LIE about using **** and STEAL them rather than paying for them?

Still -- I've never seen a job posting looking for a SMART LAZY person who LIES, CHEATS, AND STEALS. Not someone I'd ever hire, or even work with.

Mishra wrote:

MODERATED

All kinds of em.

The TechExams.net demographic is NOT "people to stupid to find **** on there own" -- so that "example" isn't appreciated. Then you also get the people too stupid to download them, and that starts the "email me to" posts.

mikearama

I'm guilty of this exactly as mishra explains.

Back in '99, my college instructor handed out study guides as a final prep... and this for all exams: cisco, MS, novell, etc.

It wasn't until I sat my first mcp that I thought "damn, I've seen a third of these questions before". Then on my server exam, no less than half were familiar.

When I asked him about the similarities (at this point, I'd never heard the word '****' used... well, not in the capacity we're talking about), he said it was a final 'top up', and to use it as insurance to ensure a pass.

I hate to say, that made sense at the time to everyone in my group. We were studying hard, doing all the labs wwe could get our hands on, killing our projects, more practice at home... it made sense to ensure our $125.

I'm very religious, and the obvious hypocrisy bugged me, so I have avoided **** since. But if they were handed out so readily by a school, and passed off as study guides and final preps, then you can be sure there's a lot of people who know no better, and haven't really thought it through.

Can't be too harsh on those poor blokes. Just have to hope they've already put in the blood/sweat/tears that the rest of us have.

Mike

Mishra

mikej412 wrote:

Mishra wrote:

I've known very smart people who didn't know it was cheating.

If they didn't figure out that a **** was cheating after taking one exam and recognizing the questions -- then they aren't very smart.

If they did figure it out and continue to use them, then they are LAZY. Or do you consider them SMART if they LIE about using **** and STEAL them rather than paying for them?

Still -- I've never seen a job posting looking for a SMART LAZY person who LIES, CHEATS, AND STEALS. Not someone I'd ever hire, or even work with.

Mishra wrote:

MODERATED

All kinds of em.

The TechExams.net demographic is NOT "people to stupid to find **** on there own" -- so that "example" isn't appreciated. Then you also get the people too stupid to download them, and that starts the "email me to" posts.

I don't really "appreciate" the tone either. I didn't say anything about how braindumps are for smart people. I am just stating what happens in the real world and that people really think it is legit.

fonque

This is the first I have ever heard the term "braindump". What exactly does that mean? Im thinking from reading the above posts, that its questions that are collected from people who can regurgitate questions they received on an exam. If thats the case, how as a relatively new cert taker are you supposed to recognize them?

mikej412

fonque wrote:

This is the first I have ever heard the term "braindump". What exactly does that mean? Im thinking from reading the above posts, that its questions that are collected from people who can regurgitate questions they received on an exam.

http://www.mcmcse.com/articles/braindumps.shtml

From Wikipedia: "In the IT Industry, a 'brain ****' refers to material that has been memorized, or captured electronically by means of a small device such as a PDA or cell phone with a built in camera, from an IT certification and re-created to provide an almost exact replica of the exam, thus violating most but not all Non-disclosure agreements given before an exam"

Since Prometric/Cisco had stopped testing in a few countries at one point, and then instituted new "Security Measures" and were only going to offer Cisco exams in Prometric Owned and Operated Test Centers in Pakistan, India, and China -- I'd suspect corrupt test centers were involved.

We'll just have to wait and see what paying more for Cisco Exams and having Vue as the single source does to the **** supply.

fonque wrote:

If thats the case, how as a relatively new cert taker are you supposed to recognize them?

Check out this thread -- JD has a good post in there that lists some of the real practice test vendors.

But in general, if it sounds too good to be true, then it probably is.

andyt wrote:

Well i failed with a 732 on saturday I used traditional study methods, Mcgraw-Hill book , Boson and exam cram. studied my ass off.

Actually, I think your posting forum name where people brag about CHEATING on Certification Exams was a distraction to getting a real answer about your exam.

The recommended/suggested books around hare are the Odom CCNA Certification Library and/or the Sybex book. New editions are out for the updated 640-802 CCNA exam.

The books you mentioned usually aren't enough by themselves, unless you've been working with Cisco equipment for a few years (and reading the Online Cisco docs at work).

The Sybex book is great for learning subnetting and has the hands-on exercises and is a fun read. Its good if you already have networking knowledge and some Cisco knowledge and experience.

If you don't have much of a networking background and no Cisco experience at all -- then you'd need to read the Cisco Press Odom books and the Sybex CCNA book.

The Boson Simulator to get hands-on practice is better than nothing (bugs and all) -- but real hardware works the best.