Career suicide?!

IT_Admin

Everyone, I would like some advice/comments. Here is my story. (sorry in advance for the long read...)

For the last 4 years I have worked for a company which is contracted to another major company (shall remain nameless) There are myself plus 11 other ppl who are contracted out. Now we make up the majority of IT tech's, which are out in the field. Each tech handles at least 4 different sites, all on a windows 2003 server domain, each site has approximately 200-1000 users. Some have more. We do everything from monitor the network, security, create accounts. create GPO's & MSI files, deploy software. Fix the usual things.

For the last while now, there as been a growing anmoinisty amongst the contracted techs to the regular techs. Just the subtitle reminders that we are 2nd class, without having to say it. This is really hard to describe, I don’t want to come across whining. It’s like watching someone else constantly getting everything, when you ask your employer about yours; you ALWAYS get told it’s not in their budget. Even when you are just asking for a new company phone, because yours doesn’t work, and you have already been reprimanded 2x over the summer for not answering your phone, even thou have explained why..... *counts to ten*

We'll we the contracted techs found out just recently that our 5 year contract with the major company has expired and is now up for renewal. So last week all the techs got together, and for the next few hours discussed, the possibility of rationally negotiating our contracts. This was just an internal meeting amongst the techs. It was no more then to get organized and united.

We all signed our support on an initial letter to be sent to our CIO, nominated 3 spokesmen to represent us. They delivered the letter on Thursday of last week. There was a response today. It was met with aggression and intimidation. Some of the things stated, how lucky we were to have a job, and that we were committing "career suicide" if we were to pursue this any further. The last part of the notice that we got, was that we might be brought in one by one for a meeting. Now I know this is too try and break us.

Does anyone have any advice on the situation stated above? I truly love my job, but the pay SUCKS...

Here is one of the may differences

1 contracted tech makes between 10-12hr cdn
1 normal tech makes between 27-29hr cdn

We are/were seeking something in between like 17-19hr cdn.

Is this unreasonable? Can you be fired for asking a raise? I don’t think so, but it sure as hell sounds like it.

Fellow techexams members I desperately seek your advice/comments. I can not lose my job, I have a wife and a baby due in Feb 08, but I fear that I can not support them on my current salary.

Sigh

empc4000xl

1. The one on one meeting is gonna be a divide and conquor tactic. They are gonna try to weed out who is the ring leader of this all, this will be the person who they will prob axe for being a trouble maker.


2. Treating Career suicide? Is there a blacklist in the IT industry? I'm not sure, but if you have the skills and background, I'm sure you can find jobs else where.


3. Remember yall have to function as a team. You sent that letter up as a team you have to stay a team.


4. Start looking for other jobs. Get your remsume out there, so if this turns ugly you already got the wheel turninig.


5. You already feel you can't support your family on your current pay, then its time to be moving, most jobs won't offer the kinda raise that you can get from a new job offer from a company.

JdotQ

Get your resume together and get it updated. Start circulating it now and looking for better opportunities (just in case something does happen at your current place - or if you decide you've have enough, the ball is already rolling)

Use sites like Monster, Dice, etc to look for opportunities around your area.

There's no harm in looking for a better opportunity now, rather than later when you might be out of work. Better to turn down two or three jobs because you have too many offers, than to have no offers and searching for a few months...

Best of luck. Keep us in the loop how it goes.


*** EDIT ***

Looks like empc4000xl beat me to it by a few seconds -- we're pretty much in agreement

blargoe

You can do better than this crap.

Start looking, but when you go in to talk to the CIO don't go in with a bad attitude, just be rational in explaining your frustration on the simple things like not being getting a working phone and then getting yelled at for not answering the phone.

famosbrown

With that many years with the company as a contractor and that big of a pay difference between the non-contractors, I would come together as a team to get what you deserve. It's good to see there are people out there who are willing to fight and stand up for themselves. Please watch out for the opportunist in the group who will be willing to throw some of you to the wolves to possibly get himself a dollar or two raise for giving the CIO the information needed. Like the above post said....you all have to stay as a team. Do you guys have another supervisor other than the CIO? If you do, get him on board as well.

I'm not sure if you are going toward the CIO of the company or the CIO of the contract company. First, find out who is paying you directly. If the contractor is paying you directly, somehow find out if that contract company is just taking a big portion of what the company is paying per contractor. I was in that situation before, and after finding out that my contractor was getting 3 times as much as they were paying me, I immediately negotiated a raise that made it 50/50 with my benefits/vacation, etc. still in tact. Find out where the money is coming from, then go that route.

Mishra

Look for another job. If you truly have the skills to support enterprise environments then you should get another job.

I assume you don't even get healthcare,dental,life,401k? Even aside from that you could do a lot better. I personally wouldn't even go for negotiation but my opinion isn't the most educated since I don't really know your full position.

sprkymrk

I agree that you MUST get your resume out now.
Secondly, can you find a freind or relative who is a lawyer that will represent you either free or cheap? This is how unions negotiate - if the corporate leaders get nasty, the union hires a legal representative to negotiate for them. This might show your employer that you can't be pushed around and they may compromise.

However, at this point it looks like the company would rather let you all go and hire new contract workers at that petty wage rather than give you all some decent wages. I would refuse to meet with them one-on-one and let your 3 spokesmen speak for the group if you trust them. Be prepared for the worst though, sounds like a battle ahead.

Give the company something to work with though so they don't have to lose face by giving in completely. Be smart. You can explain how they may lose customers by losing your experienced group. Offer them something in return for the extra money, like being on call or filling in for the regular employees when they are short handed, whatever you can think of to make it look like a win-win situation.

Good luck.

shednik

yea this sounds like a bad situation...i would begin looking immediately. it sounds like you gained some good experience in the time there, go find something else and leave honorably...thats the best way to go out...best of luck to you!

IT_Admin

Well, i just got off the phone with my contract manager, I have a metting with my CIO today @ 2:30, roughly 4hrs from now. Should be interesting. Any tips on what I can expect from this?

dynamik

It's hard to say. The previous response you received makes it seem like you could be in for a bumpy ride though. It could be upsetting and/or disappointing, but try to keep your cool and be polite. Be honest about your concerns and dissatisfaction, but be courteous. You can get your point across without being rude or condescending. This sounds like a critical moment, so don't let things get out of hand. Even if things don't work out, try not to burn any bridges. Maybe you can still get a letter of recommendation at a future date, etc.

garv221

xntrix18 wrote:

Some of the things stated, how lucky we were to have a job, and that we were committing "career suicide" if we were to pursue this any further.
Here is one of the may differences

Thats too personal of a statement to come from an employer. Sounds like they are perfectly content paying you what you are paid as they are raking in some good cash off from you. The more money you make, the more they loose or must make up by higher rates to clients.

1 contracted tech makes between 10-12hr cdn
1 normal tech makes between 27-29hr cdn

Exactly. You're being nickeled and dimed on a cell phone? Get your resume together and get that $27-29/hour job immediately.

supertechCETma

You pretty much signed your own death warrant when you signed the letter with everyone else. No manager wants to see labor organize. You better brush up the old resume and start looking.

Employers will always attempt to come from a position of power when it comes to negotiation. They want employees to remain in fear for their jobs. If you are contract, it is simply too easy to let you go and replace you with someone else on contract. it's the way of the world...

IT_Admin

Well heres an update.

I found out it wasn’t just myself being called to this meeting, it was all the techs. We (the techs) got together 30mins before the actual meeting, to discuss the events that lay ahead, and to decipher a stragied. We THOUGHT it would be a group meeting, seeing how we all were called in. That was wrong; it was a 1 vs. 3 meeting. 1 tech vs 2 managers plus president of the contract company. It only took 4yrs but I finally met my actual boss. The meeting was just more or less what I expected it to be. A lot of questions of were asked like "Which tech is organizing this?" "Did you know of the letter being sent?" "Did you sign the letter?" All which were answered by all the techs with the answer "no comment" There was a verbal warning that was giving to each tech, with a written letter t to follow at a later date. I was told that I would ruining my chances of getting references if I continued onto this path, thus ruining my chances of getting a better job. Also was told that there was NO WAY, they could commit to our current demands, and that I should just forget about that now.

All in all my meeting was no more then 10 mins. Each tech wrote everything down while they were in the meeting. It was actually a pretty good environment *amongst the techs* There was no really worry, It was allot more relaxed with the techs then I would of thought.

We are currently planning a work to rule idea. Since we have been constant reminded that we are nothing more then entry level techs, and that this job only requires no more then an A+ cert, we are in the process of getting a signed and detailed job description (we were never given one) when asked for one, we were told our job was too look after the issues that come up, and eslcate anything that we do not feel comfortable with. So anything outside of the A+ scope is going to eslcated. It sounds a little vindicated. This was discussed briefly after the meeting today, we will see how this turns out.

larkspur

again to echo what most everyone else said. Stick to your guns and start getting your resume out!!

There is too much money at stake for upper managemnet to give in. If there was chance to negoiate it would have taking place in this meeting...

Sounds alot like big blue!! They pulled a simalr stunt at the GAP!!

candycorn

I wouldn't even consider working with management that. It sounds like the contracting company wont even stand up for you guys. On top of that, you all have great intentions. Just get your resume updated and out on the net. You will find something better.

blargoe

This isn't even worth fighting for. Try to do what you can to save your reference (I presume for employment purposes, the reference from the company that actually pays you paycheck), and look for any job that matches the skills that you are using today. Forget this sticking together and being part of the team stuff. It sounds noble, but in the end you're not getting any benefit for it and neither are the rest of the contractors. It sounds like a lose-lose.

dtlokee

Along the lines of what Blargoe said, forget the sticking together bit. All they need to do is make somone the right offer and it becomes him vs everyone else (most likely others will get fired or blacklisted) Get your resume out and test the waters.

EdTheLad

Dont trust your fellow contractors, forget that sticking together crap, its all hot air.

mikej412

xntrix18 wrote:

we have been constant reminded that we are nothing more then entry level techs, and that this job only requires no more then an A+ cert

After 4 years, your certifications, and that pathetic pay -- why are you still in an entry level A+ job?

Unless the cost of living in Canada is so low, you're in a small job market, or you don't think you could a job elsewhere, you should have been looking to move on 2 or 3 years ago.

I'll go with the crowd on this one -- get your resume out there and find a new job.

xntrix18 wrote:

So anything outside of the A+ scope is going to eslcated. It sounds a little vindicated. This was discussed briefly after the meeting today, we will see how this turns out.

Unless you actually get a job description and task list in writing, doing that now could get you "fired for cause" -- any possibility that could mess up eligibility for unemployment benefits?

xntrix18 wrote:

We'll we the contracted techs found out just recently that our 5 year contract with the major company has expired and is now up for renewal.

Any chance you've screwed up the renewal of the contract? You may already be out of job and just not know it yet.

Trust No One!

KGhaleon

http://losangeles.craigslist.org/wst/sad/465903678.html
You could always get a job with these people as a server ninja.

garv221

Sounds like they are more concerned with you guys forming a union than giving you techs what you deserve.

xntrix18 wrote:

I was told that I would ruining my chances of getting references if I continued onto this path, thus ruining my chances of getting a better job. Also was told that there was NO WAY, they could commit to our current demands, and that I should just forget about that now.

WOW Can you be treated any worse? I can barely stand to listen to how they are treating you let alone actually work there. I would tell them where to put this job...Leave, run..Convince others to leave. Honestly, get another job, you have experience and sound like a good tech just find an employer who isn't going to pimp you.

IT_Admin

I am in the process of hopefully landing another job here shortly, but only time will tell. I was shocked at their manner that they were portraying yesterday, but a part of me wasn’t really surprised by it.


I have been at this job to gain experience working in w2k3 environment; all the jobs that I have been looking at want at least 2-3 years experience. Hence why I stayed. Now that I have the experience it’s just trying to find a better job, but with me being an hour outside of any major city, has become more of a challenge than I would have anticipated.

Darthn3ss

go office space on them.

manny355

I agree with the majority of posts here...you should definitely get your resume out...even if they come back and say..."you win...we agree to give you what you want"...I would still leave. You don't want to work for an employer who doesn't value their employees. If they cave in it may work out in the short term but in the long run when its time again to renegotiate...it will be the same story.

Get out now and find another position...one that will value what you have to offer.

Just my 2 cents...

dynamik

EdTheLad wrote:

Dont trust your fellow contractors, forget that sticking together crap, its all hot air.

Haha. I think that's a bit extreme. It was good of you to organize, but his point is valid at this point. Now that you know your situation isn't going to improve, continuing to fight for your cause is just going to hurt you in the end.