Dismay at IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

PremierCisco

Hi Folks,

Well let me give you a bit of background on myself.

I have been studying away to get certificate's in I.T. for a few years now, and since june of this year i have got my break.

What a disapointment it has been i can tell you,can someone tell me why "Google" plays such a pivitol role in I.T.?

The amount of time's i have heard people say google is the answer to a problem someone is having with a network here, a computer there. Maybe i am not getting the big picture here.

I think it is unprofessional to be at a client place of business and technician's hit a problem and their off to google the problem and all the while hoping the client does not see them.

First of all, if i was that client and i had seen that going on that technician would be asked to leave my premises immediately and i would be on the telephone to that company is question reading them the riot act.

Whatever happened to knowing the technology in question inside out. I am of the belief that if you know what you are doing you do not need google.

Clearly Microsoft and Cisco have all the documentation in the world available to I.T. professionals to properly look after their products? After all they have designed them so if something was to happen and clearly it does that you have a safety net that you can go back to vendor and find the proper and correct solution for it.

I am hearing all the time a hack here for that, a quick fix for that - it is so frustrating to think that i am in an industry where this is the norm.

Clearly my idea of the I.T industry is very different to many.

It has come to the fact that i am reconsidering my future in this industry now.

Disappointment is an understatement at the moment.

Dismayed in Ireland

Regards

Eamonn

Cherper

Part of being good in IT is knowing where to get the answer to the problem. Google can put the information at your fingertips. Why spend hours troubleshooting something if the answer is available and can be implemented within minutes by using Google?

I am not advocating someone not knowing the information, but technology changes so quickly that it is impossible to know everything. Admitting that you don't know something is not a weakness, pretending that you know it all and screwing up because of that is a weakness. I would rather have someone use google to get the right answer than have them screw up the entire network or system just guessing. Of course the biggest drawback of google is that you are not always getting the best info, but that can be overcome by checking the source. As someone that uses Cisco.com daily, I will say that google is better to search their site than the site search function.

Google isn't a problem, relying on it for everything can be a problem.

Turgon

eamo20 wrote:

Hi Folks,

Well let me give you a bit of background on myself.

I have been studying away to get certificate's in I.T. for a few years now, and since june of this year i have got my break.

What a disapointment it has been i can tell you,can someone tell me why "Google" plays such a pivitol role in I.T.?

The amount of time's i have heard people say google is the answer to a problem someone is having with a network here, a computer there. Maybe i am not getting the big picture here.

I think it is unprofessional to be at a client place of business and technician's hit a problem and their off to google the problem and all the while hoping the client does not see them.

First of all, if i was that client and i had seen that going on that technician would be asked to leave my premises immediately and i would be on the telephone to that company is question reading them the riot act.

Whatever happened to knowing the technology in question inside out. I am of the belief that if you know what you are doing you do not need google.

Clearly Microsoft and Cisco have all the documentation in the world available to I.T. professionals to properly look after their products? After all they have designed them so if something was to happen and clearly it does that you have a safety net that you can go back to vendor and find the proper and correct solution for it.

I am hearing all the time a hack here for that, a quick fix for that - it is so frustrating to think that i am in an industry where this is the norm.

Clearly my idea of the I.T industry is very different to many.

It has come to the fact that i am reconsidering my future in this industry now.

Disappointment is an understatement at the moment.

Dismayed in Ireland

Regards

Eamonn

I agree to a point. I suppose it depends what people are searching for really. You certainly couldn't stay afloat in my line of work with google! You have to understand requirement, understand your infrastructure and understand how best to utilise it through configuration. I don't find google throwing up detailed designs for my work anytime soon.

There will always be people who rely on hacks, many of the 'consultants' who made stacks of dough in the late 90's spent whole evenings surfing the web to bluff it in meetings or simply to get through the next day.

There has always been a certain amount of searching that goes hand in glove with most IT roles I can think of. Historically I have used google as a last resort that can sometimes provide useful material because I can interpret what the search throws up. But I don't do it often because pretty much my experience in networking and vendor resources are mostly what I need to get by.

If you are going to 'google' without the necessary baseline competence in your field you run the risk of searching for the wrong thing and misinterpreting your findings.. with potentially disasterous consequences. Knowing where to look comes with experience. If I worked with anyone who was regularily surfing for solutions I doubt they would be with me for long.

Besides, isn't that what most users do these days to try and catch us out?

After all, IT is easy right because they have wireless at home and a 'proper' job to do at work?

paintb4707

Are you serious?

It's all about using your resources and being effective. Not a single person on this earth knows everything, you have to find the answer somewhere.

Using your logic, thats like saying you can't teach a class with a textbook because you're expected to remember everything. I don't know about you but, I never sat for a class in which the professor taught every lesson off the top of his head.

I mean... I can agree to some extent. Such as hiring a System Admin and he's googling on how to create group policies. There's certain things that are expected to be known with what the position is entitled to.

dynamik

You need to have a solid foundation or those google answers will get you nowhere. I can perform advanced google queries without fail, but that doesn't make me the equivalent of a CCIE.

Have you never encountered an obscure error or just had an off-day where you couldn't remember some cli syntax?

There's a good chance that someone else has had the exact same problem. Why spend hours troubleshooting when you can get the answer in a few seconds? No one is ever going to know everything, and it's important to know how to find the information you don't know in a pinch.

borumas

I've used Google on many a problem and found the solution, no one knows all the answers so knowing how to find an answer is your next choice if you do not know if off the top of your head. If someone saw me Google to find an answer and asked me to leave I would say well there you go fix it yourself then, as even with the answers your average person is afraid to mess with a registry or other because they might just make things worse. I've seen mechanics look at manuals before, looking up info is just part of the job and sometimes Google can give a quick answer- there's no real shame in that. Actually I have an infinite amount of more respect for the technician who would research a problem by using Microsoft's site or Google than the tech who would just want to reload the computer, reloading a pc is not fixing it, it's just taking the easy way out of doing real trouble-shooting.

KGhaleon

How else are you going to lookup a stop error code or check to see what an error message means or what program it belongs too? Just as an example, suppose windows is acting weird and you check the log and see this error:

"The timeout waiting for the performance data collection function "PerfProc" in the "C:\WINDOWS\system32\perfproc.dll" Library to finish has expired."

How on earth would we know what this log is talking about unless we consulted google?
We aren't trained to maintain and understand how every program on the planet works...that's...

...that's MADNESS.

moss12

eamo20 so you know everything ?

Ahriakin

There is no such thing as knowing any aspect of this industry inside out, you may simply know more than someone else, they may know more than you it's all relative, anyone that claims to know it all is the last person you want working on your system.
Knowing what to look for is more important than burning syntax blindly into your noggin. remember as much as you can of course but don't disrespect someone just because they needed to look something up. If it worked then at least they had enough understanding of the problem and were able to key in probable solution search terms to get the exact fix. Why reinvent the wheel? But as was mentioned before it depends on what they use the search for, a network admin searching on how to reset passwords rightfully raises a lot more eyebrows than the same admin. looking for information on why the server isn't replicating fully with a neighbor.
Also most IT folks are forced to wear many hats. The usual lack of funding for IT means your admin./consultant is running services in 5 or 6 areas that really need full time attention on their own to fully understand. I love my Cisco work but I also have to look after Windows Servers, level 2 desktop support, script install packages etc. So when I do get back to my friendly firewalls after various projects I often have to head back to documentation. When I'm trying to implement something new my first stop is my bookshelf (or Safari), if I run into problems and have no clue even after reading the doc.s off to Google it is. My job is to resolve the problem, not impress coworkers with my innate knowledge of minutiae

How long have you been working in IT? Give it time and don't jump to conclusions, at the end of the day our industry is all about reasoning and knowledge - who's source is unimportant, the implementation is.

networker050184

If I have time to troubleshoot and figure things out on my own I will. I perfer to do that of course, but there are a lot of things in IT that are time sensitive. Do you think the business would rather lose thousands of dollars while you try to figure something out or would they rather you do what ever you can to get it working now? In the perfect world we would all sit down have a cup of coffee and analyze every problem to come up with a solution on our own but that just isn't the way it works in reality. Sorry you are so dissapointed, but thats just the way it is.

Pash

I think the guys above pretty much summed it up. My technique if I am stuck on something. Have a google search using a very open search string. Then have a look at the various front page links, if I find an answer to my exact problem I always try to get a technet/cisco/juniper kb link to back it up and bookmark it on my pc.

Turgon

Some great answers. Personally I think it all depends what you are using search engines for. If I hired a CNE I would be alarmed to find them googling on how to partition disks or what subordinate references are.

These are knowledge requirements for the CNE! There should be little need to scratch around looking for instructions to accomplish things that are elementary to the job you are supposedly qualified to do.

When I started out in 1997 I had Novell, Windows 3.11, DOS, Windows 95, IBM AS400, Token Ring, HP Printers, IBM printers etc and no access to the internet! I managed by working closely with colleagues, experimentation, and patiently learning the systems I had to administrate and reading for my MCSE. Search engines can be great sometimes for quick fixes but in terms of your development as an engineer it doesn't pay to be exclusively reliant on them. Many a fire is quickly put out by prior knowledge and experience as opposed to a desparate search on google for an answer!

All that said, using google to seek out obscure things seems perfectly reasonable to me.

networker050184

I totaly agree with Turgon. You shouldn't use google to figure out how to do your job, but for fixing an unforseen error message or something of the like. Some error messages can be very hard to figure out. If you can't set up and troubleshoot your equipment then you need to read a book. If you can't figure out a problem in a crunch then I'm all for google or other web recources.

Mishra

Aside from what everyone here as mentioned, I believe that IT has changed from the attitude of knowing exactly what you are doing.

In the past people used to work on only mainframes and that was the only machine they worked on. Actually multiple people worked on that one machine because IT in general was thought to be more like rocket science and not a common everyday thing. These people who worked on these mainframes specialized in exactly one side of the machine and knew what they were doing.

IT has changed a lot from those days because a system administrator is expected to know multiple products ranging from hardware to software and is expected to solve every problem that arises. In the old days, your boss never came to you and said "okay I like Linux so lets put that in place on our mainframe" even though you didn't know a single thing about that sofware. The knowledge demanded from system administrators is vast and we do what we need to in order to solve the problem at hand. What sets us a part from a good vs bad system administrator is when we know that we aren't perfect and must ask for help in order to make the right decisions.

sprkymrk

Ahriakin wrote:

anyone that claims to know it all is the last person you want working on your system. Knowing what to look for is more important than burning syntax blindly into your noggin.

May I quote you Ahriakin? Thanks! Because I agree 100%.

On a side note, how many folks could take a lesson on using google? Not that I mind any of the questions asked here, and I am glad that people know to come here to ask, but come on - If you want to know how many questions are on an exam, what the passing score is, and how much time you have to complete the exam - you don't know how to use google!

I personally use google for a focussed search. Most times I use the site:something.com syntax because I want to return results only from Microsoft or Cisco or Symantec, and google searches are much better than the built-in search engines on most sites.

PremierCisco

Hello all,

Thank you all for your views on this, reading the majority of your answers clearly Google is a tool within I.T.

moss12 wrote:

eamo20 so you know everything ?

Moss12 you will find that i made no statement to that affect, how could i possible know everything in 4 months.

I am saying that i find it shocking to see this in the industry.

Take for example a CCIE i would expect an expert in networking to know what he is doing other wise why are Cisco going to the trouble of making this certificate so very difficult to attain. Please do not say for extra revenue.

How would you view a CCIE using google to solve a problem where he or she is suppose to be an "EXPERT" in their field?

A CCIE + Google that is a scary thought.

I know i am probably going to get a roasting for that statement but how and ever.

I have taking onboard everyones views and i welcome them, i do.

I feel that if you work with these technologies day in day out and you truely understand the underlying factors there is no need to google a solution.

That im afraid is my view, harsh maybe but my view nonetheless.

Maybe i should be in Management

Let me finish and say thank you all for your views on this to date.

Regards

Eamonn

networker050184

Say that CCIE is in R&S. What happens when he runs into a problem with a server? He consults the closest documentation. The internet is always (most of the time anyway) there with recources. Its no different then cracking a book or manual to look up an answer in my opinion. And how is that CCIE supposed to remeber everything? If that was the case the passing score should 100%. You definitley shouldn't be mangement if you are aginst getting the job done even if it means using google. Management should ensure the job gets done using what ever recources are available. I'm pretty sure you are alone on your view of using a search engine to find solutions. They don't even give out hard copies of the Cisco doc cd with equipment anymore because its all available on line.

Ahriakin

Funny you should mention the CCIE though. Google (or any search engine) is just a portal to information (much of it useless ) think of it that way when I make the point that for the CCIE lab you are given the full Cisco Documentation CD. Yup, it's open book effectively because they know that it is impossible for any person to remember every single command and option, it is still the hardest certification in our industry as again understanding and knowing how and when to implement certain solutions is much more important than knowing the exact command to do it. Talk to any experienced Cisco guy and they will tell you that "?" is your friend not a n00b button .

blurple

I work for an IT company and I would google things all the time in front of clients. If you knew EVERYTHING ABOUT EVERYTHING my friend you would be insane. did you score a 100 on all of your certs did you get a degree with out missing a question on any test in school? do you right the software for the applications and hardware we fix,,,,,, no... and a vital part of being a good tech or engineer is to RESOURCE and google is one of the biggest for us. If you go into an attorneys office you see legal books federal and state law books all over. does that make him unprofessional?

crap I forgot my old pwd

eamo20 wrote:

How would you view a CCIE using google to solve a problem where he or she is suppose to be an "EXPERT" in their field?

A CCIE + Google that is a scary thought.

So experts in the field can't use search engines to solve a problem?

sthomas

If you are a Desktop Support Tech you will have to use google a lot to find information on how to fix certain problems. Usually when I am troubleshooting a problem I try to figure it out myself first. If I don't know how to fix it I usually check the vendors website (Dell, Microsoft, Apple, HP etc...). If I find nothing on the vendors website or think it won't do any good to look then I google. When you are doing Tech Support usually time is important so the sooner you get the issue resolved the better. Of course if you do not understand what you are doing you can google all you want but it will possibly do more harm than good.

Schluep

Non work related but one of the desktop computers running Windows XP in my home network would run fine for a while and then suddenly jump to full system resource usage and ultimately crash. The error message was not at all descriptive or helpful in any way as to what the source of the problem was. After a restart it was running normally so it was difficult to diagnose. It ended up being an issue with the HP Printer Software conflicting with the newest version of their driver. The problem was only occuring a few hours after printing a document from another computer on the network (printer was enabled as a network printer).

I spent a while looking for the problem myself and experienced this crash several times before resorting to Google and finding the answer on some forums in about 3 minutes. Had I went this route in the first place it would certainly have saved me some time and frustration.

If you don't know the answer to something I agree with many posters that you need to know where to look. Unless it is an error message not found in the manufacturer's documentation or the source of the problem is unknown this is usually my last option however since the information is far less credible and you usually end up spinning your wheels looking at solutions to problems that aren't the same as yours.

empc4000xl

Your company pays you to perform a job the most efficent way possible. If you have to google a problem there is nothing wrong with it, your not getting paid to have everything stored in your brain its impossible, you are paid for timey results. If I didn't see a tech maximising his resources I would actually be upset. At my old job before I moved into a NOC, I expected them to take a crack at the problem 1st, then if that works come get me, then if that doesn't work we call in help, sometimes it maybe on google or other times we had to contact the vendor correctly. I say use everything at your disposal.

bertieb

Seriously, I'd think (perhaps hope?) you'd change your opinions with the more experience you get. When I first started in IT a good few years ago, I was a bit surprised to see the other experienced guys using search engines to help solve issues. After a good few years of battering being a network and sys admin, I agree with what most other folk have already said and the examples they have given.

I agree that I'd be horrified if one of our sys admins couldn't create a windows user, or install the OS etc (i.e. be able to do the crux of their job) without having to resort to google, but I've seen plenty of random error messages in my time, including a really bizarre SQL 2005 mirroring error I was called up about at 3am last night, that no amount of study or digestion of vendor documentation would help resolve on the spot. It is simply impossible to know it all and IMO the key to being a successful admin/engineer is knowing the essentials in a given area, so you know WHERE to look based on good, logical thought processes which are then enhanced by experiences and other knowledge gained along the path. I've seen some really shocking 'consultants' in my time who don't know their OS from their SQL *groan * and these are the guys who give IT folk bad names, but on the plus side I've seen some really good ones who refuse to be 'beaten' and will use every tool possible in order to fix an issue rather than pass it on to a colleague and forget about it.

Google can be your friend, just don't let it be your best mate.

crap I forgot my old pwd

How many times have you researched a BSOD message on google?

pizzaboy

ladies and gentlemen, he has been in the industry for four months. I dont think we should waste our time and effort on immature and inexperienced people.

In the near future when he can not solve a problem and refuses to use google let's just hope that his boss has the same disposition as he and im sure he'll be asking this very forum about tips on how to write a CV.

Ahriakin

Very constructive....He is new, hence the question, I disagree with his assumptions but what did any of us know when we started?

D-boy

You will not get by in IT without google or researching on the web, period!

IT_Admin

Rememeber google is your friend!! Use it, love it..

jetdynamics

Let me join in to this interesting topic....First of all Ive been a member of this site because of google...next I learned a lot in IT because of google. I believe that if your in IT field and on a certain position let say you are a Computer Technician you dont need google for everything in order to attached PSU,Motherboard or any computer parts because that is your job and you should know whats the basic. There's nothing wrong in researching something in order to figure out the solution to the problem. Its a fact that inorder for us to resolve any issue the only way to do it is by research. Thats why google became popular because it gives you an answer faster than calling the customer support or browsing a book manual. So dont be afraid if your client see you browsing google for an answer rather than resolving issue without the proper reference.

garv221

eamo20 wrote:

Clearly Microsoft and Cisco have all the documentation in the world available to I.T. professionals to properly look after their products?

Have you actually tried reading an MS explained manual? lol Probably the most over dramatic, beat to death source out there.

I love Google, use it everyday, its basically a large online library. IT changes so quick, it is impossible to be on top of everything. Error codes, quick info, some cisco commands, research..everything. More people need to start using it.

What frustrates me is a tech who doesn't try finding the answers but sits at the desk trying new things...

eamo20 wrote:

How would you view a CCIE using google to solve a problem where he or she is suppose to be an "EXPERT" in their field?

In todays generation, he will be asked to do something out of his realm of knowledge ie something on Windows. Also, he may need a refresher. Secondly, the CCIE can use Google as I'm sure we can all acknowledge he has forgotten more about Cisco than we have actually learned.