Great Cisco degree program... funny though

mikearama

Funny cause the school is a 100% Nortel shop.

Check out this 4-yr Bachelor of Information Technology (Honours) degree program:

As part of the career-driven curriculum, the BIT (Hons) program offers all three levels of the Cisco certification program, namely, Cisco Certified Network Associate (CCNA®), Cisco Certified Network Professional (CCNP®), and Cisco Certified Internetwork Expert (CCIE®). Currently, no educational institution in Canada is offering a certification preparation program for CCIE, the third level of the Cisco certification. UOIT will be the only Canadian institution that provides this preparation. CCIE is considered the most rigorous of Cisco's certification program and it is highly respected by the industry.

I checked it out yesterday... a CCNP lab (for CCNA's and NP's) and a CCIE lab, completely decked out by Cisco, with total courseload designed by Cisco to make sure graduating students leave with their CCIE.

Oh... My... God!

And being faculty, I get to take this bad boy FREE. Course, parttime... it'll take me until 2015 to complete.

I just find it so hilarious that the school doesn't own a single piece of Cisco hardware in the actual infrastructure, but we have this program... and nothing from Nortel. Oh well.

bighornsheep

I'm not surprised, I think from a operating expense point of view, Nortel is much cheaper.

Basically what happens is that, I think for most non-profit organization, Nortel gives 'em a way nicer business case than Cisco does if the equipment is for operations, however, Cisco tends to support education more so than Nortel does, so if the equipment is not used in operations, primarily educational, Cisco's prices are reasonable, and keep in mind that students are at the end of the chain to bare the costs, not everyone works for the school you know? Some of us pay lots of pretty pennies for those fibre and copper!

GT-Rob

So this school plans to pump out early 20-something CCIEs with ZERO production/real world experience? Good luck.

I am sure they will help people prepare for the exam, but I doubt many will have it by graduation.

dtlokee

GT-Rob wrote:

So this school plans to pump out early 20-something CCIEs with ZERO production/real world experience? Good luck.

I am finding this to be true of more and more people I have interviewed with a CCIE. I interviewed somone last week who's been working at Starbucks for the past 3 years and got his CCIE Security a few months back. He said he just did the vendor labs over and over until he memorized them all them went and passed it. I didn't put him through a technical interview due to this, I also won't be considering him for the position.

Go figure.

mikearama

GT-Rob wrote:

So this school plans to pump out early 20-something CCIEs with ZERO production/real world experience? Good luck.

I am sure they will help people prepare for the exam, but I doubt many will have it by graduation.

You're no doubt right. However, it's a four-year course, predominantly cisco-based, using a tonne of cisco equipment, and the same lab setup as the actual ccie hands-on exam. Not bad.

And there's the co-op... 560 hours of placement.

I wish this course was available when I went to university.

LOkrasa

I wish something like that was offered in my area.

mikej412

mikearama wrote:

And there's the co-op... 560 hours of placement.

Ah! So they wouldn't be total "lab rats"

jamesp1983

I'm ridiculously jealous

snakep

LOkrasa, did you know that Montgomery College in Gaithersburg participates with Cisco's Networking Academy Program...teaches CCNA and CCNP....CCNA BSCI course starts on Jan 28th in the evenings (Mon/Weds/labtime on Fridays)...still time to register! scott

ITdude

dtlokee wrote:

I am finding this to be true of more and more people I have interviewed with a CCIE. I interviewed somone last week who's been working at Starbucks for the past 3 years and got his CCIE Security a few months back. He said he just did the vendor labs over and over until he memorized them all them went and passed it. I didn't put him through a technical interview due to this, I also won't be considering him for the position.

Go figure.

That is almost a little scary! However at least people like you serve as a filter preventing people like that from getting hired claiming to be CCIE without apparently any real world experience.

Look at the bright side, if you did hire him, he might be able to supply you with plenty of latte's!

shednik

jimmypizzle83 wrote:

I'm ridiculously jealous

+1

Aquabat [banned]

dtlokee wrote:

GT-Rob wrote:

So this school plans to pump out early 20-something CCIEs with ZERO production/real world experience? Good luck.

I am finding this to be true of more and more people I have interviewed with a CCIE. I interviewed somone last week who's been working at Starbucks for the past 3 years and got his CCIE Security a few months back. He said he just did the vendor labs over and over until he memorized them all them went and passed it. I didn't put him through a technical interview due to this, I also won't be considering him for the position.

Go figure.

why would he tell u that at an interview?

That is totally cool for a school program though, Canada is seriously top notch all the way. I'm thinking about moving up there. Is british columbia part of canada or?

GT-Rob

Sure is, and probably the best part of it. Might be hard to get in there now with the Olympics around the corner, and housing is ridiculous there, but plenty of opportunity there.

Aquabat [banned]

yea i visited toronta a couple months ago and i liked it, but i guess mabye real canadians don't consider toronto canada, lol

bighornsheep

Aquabat wrote:

but i guess mabye real canadians don't consider toronto canada, lol

nah, Toronto IS Canada, but not necessarily the other way around

LOkrasa

snakep wrote:

LOkrasa, did you know that Montgomery College in Gaithersburg participates with Cisco's Networking Academy Program...teaches CCNA and CCNP....CCNA BSCI course starts on Jan 28th in the evenings (Mon/Weds/labtime on Fridays)...still time to register! scott

Thanks for the info Scott. I actually came across the class about a week ago and have been pondering whether to take it or not. I was planning to take the BSCI much sooner then the end of this course (may) but I am still not sure... The material just may force me to take the class. I will have to make a decision this weekend.

Ferret999

I am finding this to be true of more and more people I have interviewed with a CCIE. I interviewed somone last week who's been working at Starbucks for the past 3 years and got his CCIE Security a few months back. He said he just did the vendor labs over and over until he memorized them all them went and passed it.

Ouch dtlokee how many people have you interviewed like this? Did he even enjoy security or know anymore about it apart from the Cisco point of view?

If even practical test like the CCIE can be passed by people without real world experience then I am going to lose all faith in certification.

dtlokee

Not many but a few. There is another problem I have found when interviewing CCIEs, some of them have had their certs for so long they have little knowledge of the new stuff. The CCIE security I interviewed didn't know what MARS was (Since we teach it I thought it would be a good idea for him to know something about it, like what the acronym means!) I interviewed another that passed back in 1997-1998 range and didn't know a thing about IPv6 and some other tipics, his answer was (multiple times) "Just because I'm a CCIE, it doesn't mean I know everyting"

On the brighter side there have been many good ones as well.


I guess I should stop advertising a salary range of 40-50k maybe I would get better applicants

mikearama

dtlokee wrote:

The CCIE security I interviewed didn't know what MARS was.

I'll bite... what MARS?

dtlokee wrote:

"Just because I'm a CCIE, it doesn't mean I know everyting"

I can't help but think that's a great statement, though. We NA's consider IE's to be gods, but I suppose the amount of information available to networkers is insurmountable. Course, repeating it over and over is a little lame.

dtlokee wrote:

I guess I should stop advertising a salary range of 40-50k maybe I would get better applicants.

Hah! Good one.

networker050184

MARS = Cisco Security Monitoring Analysis and Response System. Never used it though....

Aquabat [banned]

you got the job!

dtlokee

networker050184 wrote:

MARS = Cisco Security Monitoring Analysis and Response System. Never used it though....

I would have been happy with that much. My interpertation was he only focused on the things needed to pass a CCIE Security lab and didn't have any knowledge outside of that box.

aueddonline

ITdude wrote:

dtlokee wrote:

I am finding this to be true of more and more people I have interviewed with a CCIE. I interviewed somone last week who's been working at Starbucks for the past 3 years and got his CCIE Security a few months back. He said he just did the vendor labs over and over until he memorized them all them went and passed it. I didn't put him through a technical interview due to this, I also won't be considering him for the position.

Go figure.

That is almost a little scary! However at least people like you serve as a filter preventing people like that from getting hired claiming to be CCIE without apparently any real world experience.

Look at the bright side, if you did hire him, he might be able to supply you with plenty of latte's!

give the guy a break man how many people in this forum could pass that test, good on the guy, claiming to be a CCIE, he is a CCIE ! he might not have the experience but that cert won't have come easy.

dtlokee

aueddonline wrote:

ITdude wrote:

dtlokee wrote:

I am finding this to be true of more and more people I have interviewed with a CCIE. I interviewed somone last week who's been working at Starbucks for the past 3 years and got his CCIE Security a few months back. He said he just did the vendor labs over and over until he memorized them all them went and passed it. I didn't put him through a technical interview due to this, I also won't be considering him for the position.

Go figure.

That is almost a little scary! However at least people like you serve as a filter preventing people like that from getting hired claiming to be CCIE without apparently any real world experience.

Look at the bright side, if you did hire him, he might be able to supply you with plenty of latte's!

give the guy a break man how many people in this forum could pass that test, good on the guy, claiming to be a CCIE, he is a CCIE ! he might not have the experience but that cert won't have come easy.

So I shouldn't have written a letter to the CCIE program manager telling them to revoke his cert?

CCIE or not, If I put somone in front of a class that can't maintain their creditability the students will pick up on it and it usually causes issues. You can only fall back on being a CCIE so many times when you don't know the answer to a question before the students begin to dobut you.

aueddonline

dtlokee wrote:

aueddonline wrote:

ITdude wrote:

dtlokee wrote:

I am finding this to be true of more and more people I have interviewed with a CCIE. I interviewed somone last week who's been working at Starbucks for the past 3 years and got his CCIE Security a few months back. He said he just did the vendor labs over and over until he memorized them all them went and passed it. I didn't put him through a technical interview due to this, I also won't be considering him for the position.

Go figure.

That is almost a little scary! However at least people like you serve as a filter preventing people like that from getting hired claiming to be CCIE without apparently any real world experience.

Look at the bright side, if you did hire him, he might be able to supply you with plenty of latte's!

give the guy a break man how many people in this forum could pass that test, good on the guy, claiming to be a CCIE, he is a CCIE ! he might not have the experience but that cert won't have come easy.

So I shouldn't have written a letter to the CCIE program manager telling them to revoke his cert?

CCIE or not, If I put somone in front of a class that can't maintain their creditability the students will pick up on it and it usually causes issues. You can only fall back on being a CCIE so many times when you don't know the answer to a question before the students begin to dobut you.

I didn't say you should have given the guy a job; I agree with you that from the sounds of it this guy couldn’t do the job you want him to do, that's fine, but don’t confuse what I’m saying

My point was really aimed at ITdude, I’m studying this Cisco stuff at the moment, it’s not easy, and it would be a hell of a lot harder if I had to work full time in a coffee house, so give him some credit, if this guy’s guilty of anything it’s being bad self promoter,

Can you really memorize CCIE security well enough to pass a CCIE test? What if something doesn’t work out? He wouldn’t have the knowledge to correct it, or troubleshoot it?

snadam

Aquabat wrote:

yea i visited toronta a couple months ago and i liked it, but i guess mabye real canadians don't consider toronto canada, lol

toronto? no....Quebec? Oui, tabarnac!

snadam

aueddonline wrote:

Can you really memorize CCIE security well enough to pass a CCIE test? What if something doesn’t work out? He wouldn’t have the knowledge to correct it, or troubleshoot it?

I dont know if you can or not, but the applicant said thats exactly what he did. And thats called 'dumping'; which is technically illegal and un-ethical. Whats the point of having that credential if you don't truly comprehend your stuff? I think thats where people are having the problem with said applicant's 'study method'.

dtlokee

Woops double post

Goldmember

aueddonline wrote:

dtlokee wrote:

aueddonline wrote:

ITdude wrote:

dtlokee wrote:

I am finding this to be true of more and more people I have interviewed with a CCIE. I interviewed somone last week who's been working at Starbucks for the past 3 years and got his CCIE Security a few months back. He said he just did the vendor labs over and over until he memorized them all them went and passed it. I didn't put him through a technical interview due to this, I also won't be considering him for the position.


My point was really aimed at ITdude, I’m studying this Cisco stuff at the moment, it’s not easy, and it would be a hell of a lot harder if I had to work full time in a coffee house, so give him some credit, if this guy’s guilty of anything it’s being bad self promoter,

Can you really memorize CCIE security well enough to pass a CCIE test? What if something doesn’t work out? He wouldn’t have the knowledge to correct it, or troubleshoot it?

I agree with the (coffee shop ---> CCIE Security) guy getting a bad wrap.

If he had the gumption, fortitude, intelligence, and perseverance to pass the CCIE Security
while working at a coffee shop, that speaks louder to me then somebody who has been grandfathered into the Cisco Networking World.

//Goldmember

dtlokee

I mean he had to have some skills that's for sure. He may have gotten lucky on the questions he was asked vs what he had practiced, I didn't really ask. I don't think you can truly **** the lab unless somone is sharing the lab with you (aka NDA violations) Bottom line: he's a CCIE and I'm not I didn't give him a technical interview to know for sure but the few overview questions I asked were not promising (Like MARS, because basically I am at a loss for an instructor to deliver it and I was hoping he could do it)

mikej412

snadam wrote:

And thats called 'dumping'; which is technically illegal and un-ethical.

Actually, when you use the legitimate Vendor Workbooks labs, and do them all -- and that's your "study method" -- that's known as the "brute force approach." If you do enough labs, eventually you'll see a lot of the "gotchas," and if you luck out, you'll get a lab that asks you the "tricky things" you've learn from the practice labs.

And then there was the old Trinet Security Lab Workbook that was supposedly too close to the real exam for comfort....

MARS is still a planet, right? But Pluto isn't.