Class Experience vs Job Experience

win2k8

Me and my friend were having a friendly debate recently relating to IT experience and which is more helpful for people to get into the IT field. He thinks apparently that getting a CCNA and his class experience will get him a 80k job without any REAL experience. And hes not doing a degree program, hes going to a technical school where he's taking CCNA classes.

In my point of view, class experience always is helpful along with certifications, but I think most employers out there want proven talent who have real world experience when looking to hire somebody. E.g Network Engineers are not just born out of college in most cases atleast... Most companies i think probably wont even let a person go near their network infrastructure who does not have proven experience doing the actual work on the job rather than just having class room experience...

So the big question is, which is better:

1) Class Experience + Certs?
OR
2) Work Experience + Certs?

thanks,
win2k4

royal

Get Bachelors degree while preparing for certs during spare time. Take advantage of internships for experience. Try to get an IT job showing them you are going to school full time and obtaining certs at the same time. This will show initiative. Then when you graduate, you'll have the degree and certs and will have the internship for some experience. Then you can land a job that will give you more experience.

That's the best way I see going about getting into this completive field and being successful.

cisco_trooper

win2k4 wrote:

He thinks apparently that getting a CCNA and his class experience will get him a 80k job without any REAL experience.

Jesus, that tech program fed him one heck of a sales pitch....
A CCNA without experience will be lucky to get 55K, if that....

Aquabat [banned]

is this a serious question?

umm, there is no such thing as "class" experience. It doesn't exist. NOBODY looks at your school classes when you are trying to get a job.

80K? 50k? with a network associate certificate?

um, more like nothing or 30K lol

hypnotoad

University people will tell you anything to get you to be a (insert program here) major. More students = more department pull and budget.

We (myself included) promise students jobs with big companies, big salaries, tell them they'll be the next bill gates. It's actually kind of like telling a guy who applies for a job at walmart that he will be the next sam walton.

I vote for BS/BA + work experience + certs. Then again, I'm picky.

win2k8

Thanks for the feedback guys, I knew he was wrong btw, i just wanted to know how much weight if any does class experience count without any work experience? I know the college is probably feeding him bull trying to make him take more classes or whatever..

win2k4

Netstudent

WHen you don;t have any work experience, you have to make some kind of resume for an entry level position. At this satge you will have a skills/education based resume. Work experience is always better than class experience, but if class/lab experience is all you have, then you better talk a good game, and come through. ONe of the best things you can express, is how you feel that you can take what you learned in class, and be able to apply some kind of practical application of that knowledge. If you can demonstrate that, then you will be good for an entry level job.

blargoe

Classroom experience is better than nothing. All it will get you is entry level though. Like someone else said, you have to put SOMETHING on your resume, and if it is applicable to the kind of job you are trying to get, you may as well put it on there until you get some work experience to replace it on your resume.

shednik

I used to put the classes I had taken on my resume while I was getting started and still going to school, and a lot of employers asked me about each class and why I felt it should be on my resume. They knew I was just starting out but wanted to show I had some good theory knowledge of how things should work and just needed a chance to put the theory into practice. Just show you're willing to work hard and learn that's what will get you your break into IT. I have a little of 2 years of experience, a bachelors, and am now making 46k. So keep working at it and I completley agree with royal's plan that's the best way to do it.

Crunchyhippo

win2k4 wrote:

Me and my friend were having a friendly debate recently relating to IT experience and which is more helpful for people to get into the IT field. He thinks apparently that getting a CCNA and his class experience will get him a 80k job without any REAL experience. And hes not doing a degree program, hes going to a technical school where he's taking CCNA classes.

In my point of view, class experience always is helpful along with certifications, but I think most employers out there want proven talent who have real world experience when looking to hire somebody. E.g Network Engineers are not just born out of college in most cases atleast... Most companies i think probably wont even let a person go near their network infrastructure who does not have proven experience doing the actual work on the job rather than just having class room experience...

So the big question is, which is better:

1) Class Experience + Certs?
OR
2) Work Experience + Certs?

thanks,
win2k4

Experience is king. Certs without experience is worth zero.

Megadeth4168

Experience is king. Certs without experience is worth zero.

So true, Nicely said.

pryde7

Well...if class experience is suppose to count for any reason, it means that repeaters or those who spend more years in school will be compensated more.

In that case...others will be pushing for home lab experience!

sprkymrk

Megadeth4168 wrote:

Experience is king. Certs without experience is worth zero.

So true, Nicely said.

Experience is king, that is true.
Certs without experience is most definately NOT worth zero. Ask anyone applying for entry level jobs.

JDMurray

Crunchyhippo wrote:

Certs without experience is worth zero.

That's like saying, "Classroom education without experience is worth zero." Don't you give yourself any credit for what you learn from only reading and listening?

dtlokee

Classroom experience has value. If you've installed Windows Server in the classroom is it somehow vastly different to do the same thing on a production network? If you've created a user account or created a file share in the classroom does that not translate into a skill that you can use on a production network? I have had numerous students with tons of production experience (one who could even tell you how many times you needed to press tab between any two fields in the properties of a user account) but could not perform some of the most basic tasks in the classroom. Does that mean that production experience is not valuable when someone is pigeon holed into a very narrow field of knowledge?

It's all valuable in one way or another, don't sell yourself short.

snadam

I do believe 'real-world' experience trumps all. But 'classroom experience' is better than no experience...In a nutshell, ANY experience is good experience.


isn't that the whole point of LABS? You pay a 'lab fee' in your college tuition, or you buy your own lab. You damn well better utilize the labs and learn anything you can. You gain experience in labs to prepare you for the real world. You live and learn from your success/mistakes. Personally, Id rather F--- up in a lab than on the job.

dtlokee wrote:

It's all valuable in one way or another, don't sell yourself short.

well said

Crunchyhippo

JDMurray wrote:

Crunchyhippo wrote:

Certs without experience is worth zero.

That's like saying, "Classroom education without experience is worth zero." Don't you give yourself any credit for what you learn from only reading and listening?

It depends on what you're studying. If you've studied accounting or law or business, then yes, classroom time counts for something. In the networking field - it's quite different, I've discovered.

sprkymrk

Crunchyhippo wrote:

JDMurray wrote:

Crunchyhippo wrote:

Certs without experience is worth zero.

That's like saying, "Classroom education without experience is worth zero." Don't you give yourself any credit for what you learn from only reading and listening?

It depends on what you're studying. If you've studied accounting or law or business, then yes, classroom time counts for something. In the networking field - it's quite different, I've discovered.

No one said it was the same. We just disagreed with the "classroom exp = zero" comment.

I know people that learned how to make cables in a classroom. I know people that learned how to telnet or terminal into routers in a classroom. How about learning how to decipher what an ACL is doing, and how to assign IPs to an interface, or perform a trace route for trouble shooting?

The first time I touched Windows 2000 was in a classroom - and by the time we rolled it out at work I was the first one certified in it and known as the SME (Subject Matter Expert). I learned ISA 2000 in my personal lab in my basement, and was able to roll it out in production with zero issues. I could give a dozen more examples as well.

Lots of good stuff can happen in a lab or classroom.

AlanJames

Well you have to get a foot in the door somehow, so certs and and/or degrees with out work experience are better than nothing.

As always work experience is best.

I think it depends on which country you're going for work in as well,

America/Canada/India tends to put a lot more emphasis on degrees etc. Where as Australia, UK, look more at certs (in the I.T industry)

Kasor

Classroom only training and experience is something you gain by working. You can't compare them.