Oralce vs. cisco

vegetaholic

I have dilemma in choosing oracle DBA and Cisco certs.
I want to be a security professional but I don't like hardware certs(cisco,juniper).Is that necessary to achieve ccnp or ccsp like cisco-certs to pass Cissp or CEH certs.?
My future plan is having Oracle DBA,RHCE,CEH,Cissp.
Can I achieve my goal without entangle with hardware certs.please advice me.


I repeat ,I really don't like and don't want have any hardware certs like Cisco. :P

JDMurray

Many database and information security professionals do not have networking certifications. You will need to know something about TCP/IP networking and hardware, especially for the RHCE and CEH certs. You won't need to get any vendor-specific networking certifications, unless you are required to by an employer to have them. And having networking certification(s) may make you more marketable in your search for a job.

Schluep

This would have been better posted in the Security Certificatin Forum or the General Certifiations Forum. The Suggestion/Comments forum is actually for suggestions/comments regarding this site.

I passed the CISSP exam without having any vendor specific hardware certifications and primaily Database experience. Interestingly enough I never went for any of the Oracle, DB2, or Microsoft database certifications.

The CISSP exam does have a large domain specific to Network Security and you will need to be famliar with WAN/LAN technologies, wireless technologies, routing protocols, and so on. You won't need to know specifics of configuring a Cisco router, but you will need to understand what type of firewall would be best deployed under a particular circumstance or whether a Router/Switch would be better used under a given scenario. I have had a lot of experience with hardware even though I didn't have any of the vendor specific certifications at the time. The CEH and RHCE will require even more in depth knowledge in these areas. Many of the tools you will be tested on for CEH involve exploiting these protocols and technologies, so you need to understand them in order to exploit them.

Now that I passed the exam and have been slowly becoming more involved in InfoSec I find that I am looking at obtaining some Juniper, Microsoft, and then Cisco certifications over the next two years in addition to the CEH that I am currently working on. I also find the network aspect of security to be more enjoyable than the database aspect now, which is an interesting switch for me.

There is no reason you have to avoid the Cisco/Juniper/MS certifications. Even if it isn't your most immediate goal it will certainly make your more marketable and enhance your overall view of the security of an organization. If you wanted to be involved in Consulting or run the Security program for an organization you will likely need some experience with both areas.

vegetaholic

Oracle DBA requires only OS cluster knowledge not hardware or networking.

And

CEH and Cissp requires networking and hardware knowledge.

My decision:
Oracle DBA requires knowledge of OS clusters such as Linux,Solaries.And employers want hands-on experience of Linux/Solaries for oracle DBA.As I don't like Networking and Hardware so I should throw the thoughts of becoming security specialist out of my mind ,since CEH and Cissp requires networking and hardware knowledge.Also,I know C++ and Java and both have nothing to do with networking and hardware.Don't get buzz while you read C++, Hey I don't know writing protocols,However I can write some anti-virus script to execute dos and registry commands.

Now, what do you suggest me?

security+/Security Certified Network Professional (SCNP) would be good for Java programmer.?

Note:I can studies networking but I hate routers and hardware equipment studies as I have
no engineering degree.(me,BSC.IT,MBA .IT - last sem)

sorry for vulgar language,I desperately need your help ,so I typed what I had in mind at that time.

Schluep

If you plan to focus more on DBMS/Programming certifications and developing your skills in those areas it is definitely worthwhile. The OCA/OCP certifications are very well recognized in the database world and you will see them listed frequently for database positions. If you have a lot of Oracle experience they would definitely be recommended. The SCJA/SCJP are not quite as recognized but certainly wort obtaining if you do a lot with Java.

If you ultimately want to be involved in security you have options with minimal focus on networking/routing such as code auditing, bounds testing, exploit development, code obfuscation to prevent reverse engineering, and so on.

Don't throw the idea of CEH/CISSP out the door because there is some networking knowledge that is needed. Many of the networking folks taking these exams have little programming/database experience and both require knowledge in these areas. The Security+ and CISSP exams cover a broad range of Security topics but don't have a lot of depth or focus on vendor specific products. The CEH focuses mainly on the security tools used and obviously a lot of these tool focus on things such as SQL Injections, Buffer Overflows, and other web/software/database vulnerabilities. Security+ is a great entry level overall view for InfoSec and would be highly recommended if you are interested in it, however it is just like the CISSP in that it tests a variety of security topics including the networking aspect. Don't let that aspect of the exam throw you off from the certifications.

vegetaholic

Thanks for your advice ,I finally learned what exactly networking is.At last you have to
study routers in any case.Knowledge of security is quite ever-demanding.

So I decided I will go to these certs in ascending order.
SCWCD->SCBCD->Oracle DBA->Network+->security+->RHCE->CEH->may be one more cert
security related cert(I don't know which one)->Cissp.

That is life-time plan.I can't say I wouldn't change it.But oracle DBA and CEH is for sure.

One more strong reason I can't study router-networking is I have no router ,I am not working
in any organization ,just home-Pc user, last sem on MBA IT, preparing for SCWCD.

Perhaps, I would change my thought of not acquiring router-networking knowledge in life when
I am on big organization. :P

one last question?(of this thread :P)

In Which field I have better possibility of getting green-paper(money) : database/development or network/system/security?

I know I should go for the field in which I have enthusiasm not the one in which have good money else I would put myself on the roller-coaster ride. :P

best regards,
Vegeta

Schluep

You will need experience in either. Experience is far more important than degrees and certifications. Database development and InfoSec both typically require a lot of very closely required work experience before you will be considered. If you were the owner of a large company and had a database of customer information that had to be protected would you trust someone to design the database that has limited experience working with databases? Would you trust the creation of your company's security policy and the administration of it to someone that has never experienced security breaches, administered a network, or verified proper bounds checking was in place? If someone doesn't understand how something works they certainly can't secure it effectively.

Database Development and InfoSec typically pay higher than Database Administration, System Administration, or Network Administration. The reason is that they require much broader skill sets and are very critical positions to the operation of an organization. As you will see if you read many of the threads in the IT/Jobs boards it is not very easy even to break into the IT world for a lot of people without experience since so many companies crave it. You may not be able to get a DBA position until you have worked as a Database Analyst for example, or may need to start somewhere else in the company and move to the DBA position once they have seen how you work and what you are capable of. Consulting is certainly an option to look into as well. It is great for getting a lot of well rounded experience either in Database Consulting or IT Consulting. Feel free to browse through some job search web sites looking at various IT positions and what is required for them. You will frequently see things like "Four years experience working with Crystal Reports, Oracle, MS Access, and MS SQL Server."

You have a lot of choices and they are all going to take a lot of work. You need to decide where your entry into the industry will be and how you will accomplish that entry. Then you need to work from there to become better at what you do on a daily basis and continue to learn more and obtain certification to verify what you know. Don't sit for your OCA/OCP certifications until you have hands on experience using Oracle for Database Administration. Certifications should be to verify what you know, not what you can read/memorize.

If you are serious about Database make sure it is something you can stick with long term. I have been doing a lot of Database work the past few years working with Object Oriented Databases containing dynamic GIS/Geo Spatial data. It is far more interesting than your standard relational DMBSs and it still became monotonous for me after a while.

vegetaholic

Thanks for your invaluable information.You are experienced person,You know better than
I have ever imagined.

But one more question please clarify what's is consulting.?
Consulting Sounds you have to consult someone about specific filed.
is that manager like job or you even have to work in technology.?


I have learned by precious info What should I do.According to my qualification I don't have even a single bit experience in network/security but I already passed scjp and oca.I have experience on them,say one year.

So my best bet would be junior Java programmer or Junior DBA for entering into IT Industry.
Once I got good experience on them , then I can move to security field and do studies
for it ,while still doing the role of Java developer/Oracle DBA.

Have I got it correct or I need another lecture? :P

Schluep

Haha, I don't lecture. I just ramble sometimes and what starts off as a quick reply turns into a few paragraphs by the end of it. There are people on these boards with far more experience than myself.

Consulting typically involves working for (or ultimately owning) a Consulting Firm which is a company that is highly specialized in a particular skillset so a company can contract them to perform the work rather than develop all of the procedures and policies themselves. For example, there are Consulting Firms that will perform network footprinting, scanning, penetration testing, firewall set-up, and other security related tasks. A company may want to test their Security and have a third party (the Consulting Firm) perform the a Penetration Test to see if they have any vulnerabilities that could be exploited by a malicous individual. The Consulting Firm could then offer to assist them in repairing the problem or allow the company to repair any issues themselves and test again. If a company needs to establish a database quickly and train the DBAs they are hiring on how to Administer it they would likely go to a Database Consulting Firm for this development, training, and the initial administration of the database. Consulting can be beneficial from an experience standpoint because you typically get to involve yourself with a lot of different companies/projects instead of working on the same network/database all the time. Security Consultants seem to stay planted a lot longer from my experience but I have seen a lot of Database Consultants hired out of their Consulting Firm after working on a certain project where the company they were working for liked them a lot and offered a higher salary to stay after the project was complete. Of course there are many Database Consultant that remain in Consulting. It is probably not a place to start in most cases, but after a bit of experience if you can start doing some Consulting it can really expand your experience.

Without experience it will be difficult but trying to obtain an entry level DBA or Analyst position as you mentioned would be a good way to go. Certainly the Java programming can help as well and starting as a Programmer could certainly work as well, just be careful if you don't want to end up a programmer and would rather focus on DBA work that you don't end up going too far down that path. Of course if you like it and would rather focus more on programming that is an option as well. Having the OCA will definitely help get your foot in the door at an entry level database position and same for the SCJP with Java. If I were you I would try to get my foot in the door anywhere that I could and keep studying while you are working. Climb from there into whatever path that leads you or you decide to pursue.

Anything Security related is likely a long term goal though security will certainly be an aspect of everything you do. I would highly recommend reading the thread at http://www.techexams.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=27343 where Keatron makes an excellent post comparing wanting to get into InfoSec like saying you want to get into the Medical Field without further specification. The same can be said of "Wanting to get into IT." in my opinion so some decisions will definitely need to be made.

vegetaholic

I have no words to thank you.But I would say
Thanks