CCIE...can't work in NOC?

I talked to a NOC hiring manager a few days ago and she mentioned they had no CCIE's on staff and that she didn't think the CCIE was a good prerequisite knowledge for working in a NOC.

This is what she told me...and this was a huge NOC, with some of the most trouble tickets in Southern California...

"The CCIE doesn't prepare you for things you encounter with experience in a NOC such as BGP, OSPF, and Multicast. It also doesn't teach you about opening cases with TAC and tickets."

My jaw dropped.

The CCIE is the gold standard we have in the industry for those exact things such as routing protocols and multicast.

What can you say to something like this?

I tried to explain to her that the CCIE covers all those areas but she still didn't believe CCIE would be good preparation for the NOC.

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stupidboy

I bet she was only HR and no idea what the certifications mean.

If you are really interested in the opportunity it might be worth calling and asking for another interview with someone technical!

mikej412

Was it April 1st?

Goldmember wrote:

This is what she told me...and this was a huge NOC, with some of the most trouble tickets in Southern California...

Hum, I wonder if there is a correleation between # of tickets and lack of knowledge?

Goldmember wrote:

"The CCIE doesn't prepare you for things you encounter with experience in a NOC such as BGP, OSPF, and Multicast.

Oh!! That explains the number of tickets -- more likely a management issue

Goldmember wrote:

It also doesn't teach you about opening cases with TAC and tickets."

Ah! You wouldn't want to pay a CCIE to be a receptionist or a script reader on a level 1 helpdesk anyway.

Goldmember wrote:

What can you say to something like this?

Buh Bye! Thanks for your time, but I don't think this would be a good fit. And then RUN!! Run Like the Wind!

romain

mikej412 wrote:

Was it April 1st?

Goldmember wrote:

This is what she told me...and this was a huge NOC, with some of the most trouble tickets in Southern California...

Hum, I wonder if there is a correleation between # of tickets and lack of knowledge?

Goldmember wrote:

"The CCIE doesn't prepare you for things you encounter with experience in a NOC such as BGP, OSPF, and Multicast.

Oh!! That explains the number of tickets -- more likely a management issue

Goldmember wrote:

It also doesn't teach you about opening cases with TAC and tickets."

Ah! You wouldn't want to pay a CCIE to be a receptionist or a script reader on a level 1 helpdesk anyway.

Goldmember wrote:

What can you say to something like this?

Buh Bye! Thanks for your time, but I don't think this would be a good fit. And then RUN!! Run Like the Wind!

All is said

darkuser

she is a self-delusional robot in charge of a bunch of delusional robots.

who can't think outside of the box and only know how to follow a set of instructions.

things like "i can trace to your smartjack"

i actually had a verizon noc person ask me what a frame relay subinterface was once .....

darkuser

This is what she told me...and this was a huge NOC, with some of the most trouble tickets in Southern California...

hmmm i wonder if that has anything to do with the gaggle of tech bozo's wearing the headsets
anybody with any clue is quickly whisked out of the noc and over to engineering ....

ITdude

romain wrote:

mikej412 wrote:

Was it April 1st?

Goldmember wrote:

This is what she told me...and this was a huge NOC, with some of the most trouble tickets in Southern California...

Hum, I wonder if there is a correleation between # of tickets and lack of knowledge?

Goldmember wrote:

"The CCIE doesn't prepare you for things you encounter with experience in a NOC such as BGP, OSPF, and Multicast.

Oh!! That explains the number of tickets -- more likely a management issue

Goldmember wrote:

It also doesn't teach you about opening cases with TAC and tickets."

Ah! You wouldn't want to pay a CCIE to be a receptionist or a script reader on a level 1 helpdesk anyway.

Goldmember wrote:

What can you say to something like this?

Buh Bye! Thanks for your time, but I don't think this would be a good fit. And then RUN!! Run Like the Wind!

All is said

Ditto here!

mikej412

darkuser wrote:

i wonder if that has anything to do with the gaggle of tech bozo's wearing the headsets
anybody with any clue is quickly whisked out of the noc

Ah!! I guess if they call the Helpdesk a NOC, the Executives in Charge gets a bigger bonus check

zaqtivi

probably what the employer wants to say is that you're overqualified.

muzzybee

maybe it is a customer service thing as well. you know dealing with tickets and tools and also hanging on the phone sorting issues.

but well yeah CCIE should be up there ,easy.

keenon

why would an IE work in a NOC would be the better question? Unless theres some sort of high level coverage/project that their providing technical leadership on. Otherwise it would be a very boring and skill wasting position

darkuser

none in his right mind would ....
i was attacking the cluelessnes or the project manger living in a world of delusion
only concerned with closing tickets

in 99 i worked in a noc during the height of the sucussful dos attacks

Goldmember

She also said a lot of CCIE's can't pass the technical interview, which also made my jaw drop.

Here was a question she asked me

What is a default gateway?
What is the command for default gateway?

I swear to Moses himself. I couldn't believe it.

Another question..

Have you ever used Access lists and in what scenario?

Another question...

What is TCP and can you explain it?

I practically wrote a book on TCP for her and she still sounded like she wasn't impressed.

Crunchyhippo

Sounds like her boss should be notified of her - let's be frank - ineptness at being a knowledgeable HR manager. Perhaps once you're on board and have little to do with her from then on, it gets better? It's like that where I work; I had a real sexist for a HR manager, but as soon as I didn't have to deal with her, we got along fine.

Sepiraph

A better question would be, why would an CCIE want to work there? It is pretty sad to read about such clueless NOC hiring manager, or perhaps she is just saying that (or more likely been told) because it is out of the NOC center's budget.

I also think there's why it is important for some technical people to move into management role in an IT company (provided they can manage that role), as otherwise eventually the company/industry would be ran by people who are clueless about IT and technology in general.

mgeorge

I dont know about you guys but I would probably just bust out laughing when someone said that.
I so would not be able to help my self, I'd probably laugh my way out the door and thank her
for wasting my time.

pullin-gs

Again, Why would an IE even consider working in a NOC?

Let me tell ya that as a person in charge of hiring for two mid-sized NOCs I would never want an IE in the mix of things. The tier I,II, III guys have it covered. Only if they are stumped (which is much less than 1% of the time?) will we engage Tier IV (vendor or IE).
The IEs we have EARN their $$$ envisioning new engineering concepts and applying them to real-world architectures or technogies currently in place.
One of our CCIEs is totally engaged negotiating standards solutions with the IETF, frame/cell forums, ITU, and other standards bodies. The company I work for wants their currently-proprietary ideas to be the next standards other companies have to confirm to.

You know that TCP/IP (DARPA) and Ethernet (DEC) were once propietary/closed technologies? By DEC influening the IEEE standards commities Ethernet became an international standard others had to play "catch-up" to deploy.
Anyone remember gang-of-four FrameRelay? That was a fun project to work on.
The winners there?
The unified Go4 solution presented as a industry standard by Cisco, Digital, Stratacom, Nortel(?) which later evolved into international standards (ANSI and IETF).
This is what makes an IE an investment which pays BIG for companies...not working troubles in a NOC.

mgeorge

I agree in some cases, but keep in mind this thread was about the IE certification path not
having the skills to perform noc related duties, not rather or not a CCIE would want to work
in a NOC.

I personally know 2 ccie's that work in noc enviroments and dont use a lvl4, they are the go to
guy, and if they dont know, they go straight to TAC (this is pertty common) with major enterprises.

Either case, if the $$$ is good, I'm sure a CCIE would work anywhere as long as it relates to
area of expertise.

Sa'ad

I ran into this a bit too late but hey your story with that lady is just unbelievable man.

I work for the third largest ISP/Telecom company in the US and we provide services accross all over the states, I handle BGP, MPLS and QoS troubles almost on a daily basis I work anywhere between 1-3 BGP tickets per day. When I got hired here precisely about a year ago I only had CCNA. So maybe that lady was just having a bad day, or her ex-boyfriend was a CCIE who didn't have time for her so she some how hates CCIE's

itdaddy

man this is typical. people in charge who should never be in IT or be in charge
i see it all the time. These are the kind of people who call CCIE vendors
and ask for their help but nah! dont need them but we will call a Network ENgineering consutlting firm who has CCIE's on staff taking calls but nah! dont need them what do they know. man i see it all the time. makes me sick how stupid people are. just when you think
you have seen the most ASSinine thing, bam anotherone pops up. I believe it!
freaks!

she is probaly head of IT! I bet!

pullin-gs

Sa'ad wrote:

I work for the third largest ISP/Telecom company in the US...I handle BGP, MPLS and QoS troubles almost on a daily basis I work anywhere between 1-3 BGP tickets per day. I only had CCNA:D

Exactly!
Why pay a CCIE (at two or three times the rate) to do the same thing when a manager can higher a good CCNA or CCNP to cover those tricky problems?