certifications vs degree

rymetymeuk

hey all

I'm a career changer and have since done 4 exams in order to gain some necessary skills in different area's and thought that once i passed the CCNA i'd be able to get some sort of networking job. (Even though i have no experience)...

but what i've seen is this:

if you have a degree and no experience, you can get an entry level job in the discipline you studied

or

if you haven't a degree, but have some certs, you can't get that entry level job. (sorry, i should add that im presuming the person with certs has no experience too)

That's just my observations. I'm absolutely not bitter about it as i totally understand the logic.

anyway, i'm now thinking of getting a degree since i never went when i was younger, and wondered what other people's experiences were and if they had a degree etc.


to those who have no degree and have certs and a good job, congrats

dynamik

That's what I typically observe as well. You should check this thread out as well: http://techexams.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=32377

rfult001

I finish my BS in Information Technology in 2 more weeks and have A+, MCITP, MCTS, and MCDST. I found work while I was still in school. I have noticed that many technology companies send recruiters to the campuses hiring people like crazy. IMHO, you are best having both if you want the big $$. Many of the recruiters I have spoken to will look at the students who have some proof that they have an idea as to what they are doing (i.e. certs) first.

I didn't go back to school until I was 24, and I regret waiting this long.

Good luck in your endeavors.

-Bob the IT guy

rymetymeuk

Well i'm 27 Bob, so I have more regret than you :P

I know i'll never be considered for the really great jobs without a degree, so better get it now than when i'm 40! I never knew what I wanted to do so went and worked for 6 yrs at a mortgage lender, then discovered I liked IT so it went from there.

I'm looking at a BA in Information Technology rather than a BSc in Computer Science as tbh i'm not that damn bright, so need to do something relevant but not so hardcore. plus i don't want to be a programmer..

thanks for the info peeps

rfult001

2 months short...foiled again...

sthomas

I think it is good to get a college degree but I don't agree with the statement that you can't get an entry level job without a dregree. A lot of people where able to do so, and it can be just as difficult to get an IT job with a degree and no experience. Also, there are probably a few people on this board that are making 6 figures or close to it that never finished college. So the statement that someone won't be considered for the really great jobs in this field without one is also false.

rfult001

I have a friend who has every degree under the sun that can walk into a job and demand a $70,000 salary and get it, he never went to college. In the end experience is everything.

eltoro

I think it all depends on a number of factors. I was able to get an entry level tech position with just A+ and Network+ and no degree. I was making about $30k. Then I gathered a few more certs and also a degree, I got promoted to a network admin with 30% raise in salary.

HeroPsycho

sthomas wrote:

I think it is good to get a college degree but I don't agree with the statement that you can't get an entry level job without a dregree. A lot of people where able to do so, and it can be just as difficult to get an IT job with a degree and no experience. Also, there are probably a few people on this board that are making 6 figures or close to it that never finished college. So the statement that someone won't be considered for the really great jobs in this field without one is also false.

+1

nel

There is no right or wrong answer to be honest, both have advantages and disadvantages. most would suggest having both to be honest. that way you cant go wrong.

Honestly though i would say you should be able to get a helpdesk job of some sort with having your ccna and all. maybe add a few MS certs to help towards that goal.

look at dynamiks link or search the forums...there has been many many conversations about this. Personally i have started to believe from my own experiance a bsc degree is good to expose you to several different areas. a masters degree then allows you to specialise in something. also certs show that you specialise in an area i.e. CCNA > NP > IE and so forth.

i find that a degree takes more of a role if your applying for a managers role especially.

also note that just because you had a degree in networking for example it doesnt mean that you will get a cisco engineer's job over someone who has no degree but the relevant cisco qualifications.

rymetymeuk

Ok, appreciate your comments guys. I'm just at that crossroads where I want to plan for the future a bit and not sure which path will benefit me mostly. I asked a recruiter this today and this is what he said (which is pretty much what you guys are saying):

...................................................................................
A certain number of clients want a BS degree but plenty of others just want Cisco certifications with experience.. I guess it really matters what career path you want to go. You can make a good living with a CCNP and CCNA but you said It accurately, some positions want a college degree.

A college degree shows some degree of professionalism so if you want to get into management than its typically required. If you want to be more technically centered aka – stay in the network engineer field than you can go the Cisco route.

I know I am not really giving you a clear cut answer – CCNA are quite common – CCNP sets you a part but when push comes to shove it really comes down to work experience. The degree might get you there faster because in lots of jobs it states “BS degree or equivalent work experience” but sometimes it states “CCNP or CCNA with equivalent work experience” I know as a recruiter I highlight if they have a degree.

Like I said I know I am not giving you a clear cut “go to Uni” or stay the Cisco route.
.....................................................................................


I know this is a really long and rather dull topic, it's just so relevant to a lot of people including myself. Thanks for the replies, much appreciated.

rymetymeuk

I guess i'm not looking "entry level" enough, I've been looking for jobs which i'll use some of my CCNA knowledge, but maybe I need to just try and get helpdesk roles.

anyway, as i said thanks a lot for the input

snadam

rfult001 wrote:

I have a friend who has every degree under the sun that can walk into a job and demand a $70,000 salary and get it, he never went to college. In the end experience is everything.

you mean cert not degree right?

I dont know how you can get a degree without going to college
but if you can, tell me. I can save thousands!!!

rfult001

oops! nice catch. Yes, I meant certs. That's what I get for working and hanging around the forum at the same time.

rymetymeuk

i'm gonna eat my own hat and say that i must have been looking at one job site when i wrote this because i just looked at career builder and all the postings either say:

BA or BS or relevant experience or

experience!!!

unless the job is for a manager of some kind, and then they specify they want a degree.

so i'm a dumbass and retract my statements lol

it'd been good to have your opinions tho!!!

sthomas

rymetymeuk wrote:

so i'm a dumbass and retract my statements lol

Your NOT a dumbass, you where just stating your personal experience like everyone else was (including myself).

jheck

I think I am like others here that have waited until their late 20’s to switch to IT careers. I will graduate with an Associate’s in Computer Information Systems next month with a 3.9 GPA.

I have been looking for work since the middle of January and had maybe 2-3 emails and 2-3
phone calls. I have also offered to volunteer work and was turned down. Lol sad! Everyone wants experience, IT is a bit of a unique field, a degree MAY help you get your foot in the door but it’s not a guarantee.

I honestly think my first job is going to be through someone I know vs. a random online IT job search engine. I have two decent prospects for a job now and both are from friends or friends of friends.

My advice would be to network with friends/family as much as possible. Study for certs to make yourself more marketable. Others have posted this formula and it makes sense:

Experience > Certification > Degree

-Jon

motogpman

I switched careers, from Electronic bench tech ( component level debug, which a dying art nowadays) and got my A+ to get hired at a company that does international service work for most of the major computer manufacturers. The pay sucked at first, but most service oriented companies want to see a certain percentage of their employees at least A+ certified as a selling point to the major companies, and A+ is about as entry level as you can get. Most companies will train their new hires anyways. Personally, if I was to interview someone who had their CCNA but no other PC repair/helpdesk/ field service history, I would probably pass on them. This may be hurting you, just a suggestion by reading your post.

I used the military way of thinking, be motivated and volunteer for projects and learning new things. I don't want to promote the company I worked for openly, I was there for over 7 years, but if I don't get in trouble for this with the moderators here, PM me and I can provide some names to help people out as possible leads. I AM NOT A RECRUITER. I just had people lead in the right direction and feel it is my turn to do the same. I was in this same boat, ... it's like a credit card, you can't get one without already having credit..... so I can relate. At least some of these companies pay to train you, hence low pay.

From there, I got experience, and most of all... I GAINED VALUABLE CUSTOMER SERVICE SKILLS. Even if you work with these same people day in and out, they are basically customers. I cannot stress how important this will help you stand out in the crowd. There are some good, intelligent IT professionals out there, but they suck when it comes to personal skills which can kill their career advancement. I got a lot of offers for employment due to customer skills and professional attitude as well as technical ability. Certifications help, but if you don't know how to interact with people, then you are hurting yourself.

Anyways, after being a bit long winded, I just wanted to add some advice, you guys are a lot younger than me, and figured it would be a good time to chime and and possibly help. Good luck.

bvzxa

Hey...don't feel bad, I'm half way to 40 going for my a+ cert.

I rather do it than not to.

coffeeking

I recently entered the IT field...3 weeks ago. Sort of a career change that I intended to make years ago. I do have a Bsc to back me up in this field and am now starting to work on my certs and am very ambitious that I am going to earn a few over next few years.

In the office I work in, I see people belonging to both scenarios (degree holder and cert holder). One is the CISO (chief info sec officer), this guy has a Msc and then some heavy certs (CISSP, CISA) to back him up with over 10 years of experience.

Then there is the pure tech guy, who has every possible cert in Infor Sec (CISSP, CISA, CISM, CCIE (security)). This guy is at the managerial level as well, and has 10+ years of experience, but he is not at C level management yet.

So for me it comes down to this> it is easier to get into the management position with a degree, especially a Msc and not so easy with just the certs.

The cert guy is a geniuse as well, and does most of technical work in the department.

So 2 guys with almost same amount of experience and tehcnical abilities, one gets into management and the other stays on the technical side.

I think when you get to this level it really depends on your abilities to communicate, you need to have that business man kind of attitude to make it to the upper level management.

Certs can make you good money, but they might not get you to the upper management. That is if thats where you want to be.

sir_creamy_

rymetymeuk wrote:

I'm looking at a BA in Information Technology rather than a BSc in Computer Science as tbh i'm not that damn bright, so need to do something relevant but not so hardcore. plus i don't want to be a programmer..

Computer Science != "Programming"

sir_creamy_

jheck wrote:

Experience > Certification > Degree

> /dev/null


If there was a formula for success there would be no point to this forum.

shednik

sir_creamy_ wrote:

jheck wrote:

Experience > Certification > Degree

> /dev/null


If there was a formula for success there would be no point to this forum.

On the contrary creamy!!

JDMurray wrote:

(Experience + Certs + Education + Who you know) * Luck = really good career opportunity

http://techexams.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=29836

Clearly that is a published formula for success right there

pooker

I dont believe certs are better than a degree, but I do agree experience trumps all