CCNA compared to The Beast-291, Which is harder?

just want opinions. Thanks

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I found that the CCNA exam was a tougher test, overall, than any one single MCP exam. I'd say that 70-290 and 70-291 together cover about the same amount of material. So, if you're looking for a closer comparison, I'd say that the CCNA (whether you're doing a one or two-exam path) is closer in difficulty and scope to that of the full MCSA.

Essendon

Slowhand, do you really think that the CCNA compares to the WHOLE MCSA. Jesus man, the CCNA aint much more than mastering where to use a few commands and learning the basics of how switches switch and routers rout bits and associated protocols. The MCSA requires a whole lot more studying, as you know any MS exam cannot be taken lightly especially the 270 which seems fairly innocuous, but the actual exam can take you by surprise. The 291 is a fair hurdle to get over.

But I guess, this is just a matter of personal opinion depending on what background you come from (MS/Cisco). Before I shifted from Cisco to MS, I was a WAN support engineer for the world's biggest company (hence my login name), I guess that helped me a bit for the CCNA.

Having said all this, even CCNA isnt a cakewalk like A+ or something similar. It still requires people to know where to use which command and understand how Cisco's stuff works.

Slowhand

MobilTech wrote:

Slowhand, do you really think that the CCNA compares to the WHOLE MCSA. Jesus man, the CCNA aint much more than mastering where to use a few commands and learning the basics of how switches switch and routers rout bits and associated protocols.

And in turn, 70-291 isn't much more than learning how to configure DNS in an MMC and through the wizards, how to configure DHCP scopes and servers, setting up RRAS, some basic TCP/IP concepts, and a few things about security templates and encryption. In the bigger picture, it's not a whole lot, compared to what you'll find in the work-environment Microsoft envisions an MCSA administrating, and someone who has worked with Windows Server 2003 networks won't find it that difficult. Just as you said, the CCNA wasn't difficult for you because you'd already worked in a WAN support environment, and because you didn't have as much experience with Windows server, 70-291 threw you for a loop. It's the same way I approached A+, back in the day, I'd already worked as a PC technician for over a year, so it was really only a matter of reading through the book before sitting for the exams. Security+, though, took quite a while and I found that exam to be much more difficult, only because I didn't come from a security background.

If someone doesn't have much experience, either way, or come from about the same networking and sysadmin experience, (say having Network+ and A+,) I'd say that, based on my experience with the two certs, passing CCNA and passing 70-290 & 70-291 together is about the same difficulty. As I said, the scope of topics is about the same, and if you're starting from scratch, you're learning about as many new technologies. I'll agree, that with the elective and desktop exam, MCSA requires more time and more studying. Still, I stand by what I said that the CCNA is a lot closer to MCSA than it is to 70-291 alone.

sprkymrk

I hate questions like this.

Which is more difficult, plumbing or pipe fitting? Electrical or HVAC? Flying an airplane or helicopter? Weight lifting or running?

sthomas

The general consensus seems to be that the CCNA is more difficult than the 70-291 exam, but I have heard some people think the other way around. It depends on a lot of factors really on which one would be more difficult. Experience, interests, previous certifications, study habits, etc......

pwjohnston

As someone who has been struggling with deciding the best direction for my own cert path I understand where mclemore1 is coming from. And yes sprkymrk, while overall Administering and Designing a GUI based OS network is different than Administering a Command line based internetworking infrastructure, it’s really not explained that way.

I’m having the same delima. When I finish the 70-291(which in turn will complete my MCSA) do I:
1.Finish my MCSE because I’ve already got Microsoft’s testing method in my head?
2.Start working on my CCNA, because the test scope says the overall concepts are similar and I don’t want to have to relearn subnetting for the 4th time(j/k)
3.Or take my Security+ because I need a break and want to take something fun that I’d really enjoy.

If you look at the Scope of the CCNA:
840-622 INCD1

“The exam includes topics on networking fundamentals; connecting to a WAN; basic security and wireless concepts; routing and switching fundamentals; the TCP/IP and OSI models; IP addressing; WAN technologies; operating and configuring IOS devices; configuring RIPv2, static and default routing; implementing NAT and DHCP; and configuring simple networks.”

And 70-291 Covers
RRAS, DNS, DHCP, Manage TCP/IP Routing, subnetting, security etc.

To me it sounds like they cover the same topics, the difference being the Microsoft way of doing things and the Cisco way of doing things. At least as far as internetworking devices and network infrastructure are concerned.

But then, I haven’t even begun to start the CCNA yet so I could be completely wrong.

Spacer_08

Hey Pwjohnston. Incase you havent seen it yet, please see:

http://www.techexams.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=33253

I think Im pretty much in the same situation as you, so please see the reply in the above mentioned thread.

1MeanAdmin

IMO, CCNA is harder than 70-291 ALONE.

MobilTech:
Comparing CCNA and MCSA is of course "choosing apples vs oranges" and is a totally different comparison.
CCNA: harder tests
MCSA: more topics

APA

sprkymrk wrote:

I hate questions like this.

Which is more difficult, plumbing or pipe fitting? Electrical or HVAC? Flying an airplane or helicopter? Weight lifting or running?

1) Pipe fitting
2) Electrical
3) Helicopter
4) Running with leg weights strapped on

To be honest you shouldn't really be comparing the two.... both different ends of the spectrum really.........

But if you must know....... I found the CCNA easier because I enjoying working with networking devices and I work with Cisco gear day in and day out........... 70-291 was't that much harder but it had alot of information to take in and I really haven't touched based on most of it since I passed... (E.G - RRAS, DHCP superscopes....etc).......

rimvydazas

CCNA is definitely harder. To study and the test itself. I haven't had any experience with Cisco or MS servers while preparing for both CCNA and 291. The whole preparation for CCNA preparation took a year or so. I even had those Cisco Networking classes with real routers and switches. In addition, I studied individually a lot. I found CCNA harder because:
1. Completed the test 2 minutes before the end of the test. A couple of questions checked without even reading them.
2. More simulations questions. One question can be something like calculating subnets, configuring interfaces with those subnets information, etc. Plus, it's not like point and click like with windows. You need to know the command because there is no Cisco gui with routers or switches on the exam. While on windows you can find one or another window, with the command line you need to know where and what to configure.
3. You can't go back to the previous question - therefore, you have to plan your time for each question.
4. You need to remember I would say at least hundred of commands. My book for cisco commands alone was about 200 pages.
5. You need to know subnetting like the spelling of your name. Subnetting in MS isn't covered as much as in CCNA.

I heard that new CCNA exam doesn't include dial-on-demand and ISDN which makes preparation much easier. Anyway, I don't think that 291 would help much preparing for CCNA. Of course, you will know the concepts of DHCP and so on, but CCNA isn't about the concepts.

snadam

A.P.A wrote:

sprkymrk wrote:

I hate questions like this.

Which is more difficult, plumbing or pipe fitting? Electrical or HVAC? Flying an airplane or helicopter? Weight lifting or running?

1) Pipe fitting
2) Electrical
3) Helicopter
4) Running with leg weights strapped on

To be honest you shouldn't really be comparing the two.... both different ends of the spectrum really.........

But if you must know....... I found the CCNA easier because I enjoying working with networking devices and I work with Cisco gear day in and day out........... 70-291 was't that much harder but it had alot of information to take in and I really haven't touched based on most of it since I passed... (E.G - RRAS, DHCP superscopes....etc).......

damnit A.P.A, you took my line!

In general, its always a good thing to do some RESEARCH on an exam before you take it or ask opinions. For example, looking at the exam objectives answers most of the 'which is harder' questions. Also browsing the respective forums to look at what topics people encountered on the exam helps too. This gives you a good idea on how much emphasis the exam objectives are given. This is what I normally do going into an exam and it seems to give me a good foundation to study from.

sprkymrk

A.P.A wrote:

sprkymrk wrote:

I hate questions like this.

Which is more difficult, plumbing or pipe fitting? Electrical or HVAC? Flying an airplane or helicopter? Weight lifting or running?

1) Pipe fitting
2) Electrical
3) Helicopter
4) Running with leg weights strapped on

To be honest you shouldn't really be comparing the two.... both different ends of the spectrum really.........

But if you must know....... I found the CCNA easier because I enjoying working with networking devices and I work with Cisco gear day in and day out........... 70-291 was't that much harder but it had alot of information to take in and I really haven't touched based on most of it since I passed... (E.G - RRAS, DHCP superscopes....etc).......

+1

Those who say CCNA is harder, well, that's still just an opinion. Someone said "general consensus", but I think it's more like "general assumption". I found CCNA pretty easy and I don't even work with many routers/switches. To me, the MS test format itself is tough. Cisco is straight forward. Many people really know the material well but still fail MS tests because of the mile-long scenarios where you have to glean the necessary information. Cisco either asks a straight forward question to which you give a staright forward answer, or asks you to perform a task - and to me sims are the easiest part of any exam.

Someone also mentioned "hundreds" of commands on the CCNA. I'm thinking it's more like dozens, and in most cases the "help" is available to jog your memory.

Anyway, like I said, I hate questions like this. For some its CCNA, for others its 291. And you really shouldn't plan a certification roadmap based on what exams are easier.

Goldmember

sprkymrk wrote:

I hate questions like this.

Which is more difficult, plumbing or pipe fitting? Electrical or HVAC? Flying an airplane or helicopter? Weight lifting or running?

Why do people ask questions like this?

Sheer stupidity or boredom?

CCNA and Microsoft exams are different to say the least.

If I had to pick one I would say the CCNA exam by a good margin.

The beast is overrated IMO. Having passed the CCNA twice, I have found studying for the Beast fairly easy besides RRAS.

dynamik

Goldmember wrote:

Why do people ask questions like this?

Sheer stupidity or boredom?

Why do some people feel the need to insult others over a simple question?

snadam

Goldmember,
Well since you HAVEN'T TAKEN BOTH YET, I don't see how you can form a valid opinion that 291 is easy or otherwise...

Goldmember wrote:

The beast is overrated IMO. Having passed the CCNA twice, I have found studying for the Beast fairly easy besides RRAS.

Turgon

mclemore1 wrote:

just want opinions. Thanks

They are very different. One is concerned over 'transport' of information. The other is concerned over 'use' of the information assuming that transport of the information is a 'given'.

Anyone who can't differentiate the two is either misinformed or as yet unformed..which is ok.
Anyone who is informed and misinforms you has either got something a little confused or perhaps is an idiot!

Goldmember

dynamik wrote:

Goldmember wrote:

Why do people ask questions like this?

Sheer stupidity or boredom?

Why do some people feel the need to insult others over a simple question?

It wasn't a personal attack just an observation.

Notice I didn't insult the person, I just wondered why people ask stupid questions.

Most people can comprehend there is a difference between the CCNA and Beast and that those two exams are completely different and offered by different vendors.

People always like to compare impossible things. They compare who is the greatest guitarist, when there are many ways to play guitar and many stytles.

If people would step back and think before they post these questions the world would be much better.

Goldmember

snadam wrote:

Goldmember,
Well since you HAVEN'T TAKEN BOTH YET, I don't see how you can form a valid opinion that 291 is easy or otherwise...

Goldmember wrote:

The beast is overrated IMO. Having passed the CCNA twice, I have found studying for the Beast fairly easy besides RRAS.

Having passed the CCNA twice and studied for the Beast(which I will attempt next week), I feel confident in my remark that the Beast will be easier.

I see little or no reason to take it back. Studying for the Beast has taken me one month, whereas the CCNA took 6 months the first time, and about 3-4 months the second time.

That is a significant time difference.

Turgon

Goldmember wrote:

snadam wrote:

Goldmember,
Well since you HAVEN'T TAKEN BOTH YET, I don't see how you can form a valid opinion that 291 is easy or otherwise...

Goldmember wrote:

The beast is overrated IMO. Having passed the CCNA twice, I have found studying for the Beast fairly easy besides RRAS.

Having passed the CCNA twice and studied for the Beast(which I will attempt next week), I feel confident in my remark that the Beast will be easier.

I see little or no reason to take it back. Studying for the Beast has taken me one month, whereas the CCNA took 6 months the first time, and about 3-4 months the second time.

That is a significant time difference.

The exams cover different things. Cisco is transport. MS is services. Please see my previous post.

snadam

Goldmember wrote:

snadam wrote:

Goldmember,
Well since you HAVEN'T TAKEN BOTH YET, I don't see how you can form a valid opinion that 291 is easy or otherwise...

Goldmember wrote:

The beast is overrated IMO. Having passed the CCNA twice, I have found studying for the Beast fairly easy besides RRAS.

Having passed the CCNA twice and studied for the Beast(which I will attempt next week), I feel confident in my remark that the Beast will be easier.

I see little or no reason to take it back. Studying for the Beast has taken me one month, whereas the CCNA took 6 months the first time, and about 3-4 months the second time.

That is a significant time difference.

I'm not asking you to take it back. I just find it hypocritical how somebody can comment on something they haven't tried yet. And yes, I was aware you are taking 291 soon; I believe I gave you well wishes for it.

since when was study time a unit of measurement for difficulty?

Turgon

Guys..you are both coming at this from a position of strength, but the CCNA and *any* MCP exam are incomparable so a comparison is asanine.

Think about that. Transport vs Services.

Stop butting heads..get on with your jobs and keep studying!

snadam

Turgon wrote:

Guys..you are both coming at this from a position of strength, but the CCNA and *any* MCP exam are incomparable so a comparison is asanine.

Think about that. Transport vs Services.

Stop butting heads..get on with your jobs and keep studying!

Turgon,

I am not arguing which is harder/better at all. I'm merely stating people shouldn't be forming opinions on something that hasn't been tried. Noticed I have not sided with either party. Why? because I haven't taken either yet so therefore I couldn't even form a valid opinion even if I wanted to. In fact, I agree they are not comparable as they cover different topics/ideas.

I said what I had to say. So unless he starts flaming me, I wasn't planning on any further comments.

dynamik

Turgon: I don't think you're completely familiar with the content in 291. It has routing, subnetting, etc., so there is a decent amount of overlap between the two. In fact, that CCIE you're working on might be made obsolete by MS RRAS in the near future, so you might want to start acquainting yourself with that material

Seriously though, what's been going on with you lately? Are you taking a break from your lab studies since you broke 300 hours? You've been posting football clips, asking about our internet usage at work, and now you're trying to settle disputes in an MCP forum. You're like a king that has descended from your castle in order to settle a dispute amongst peasants.

Goldmember: You completely lack tact (that's not a personal attack, just an observation).

This experiment might put things in perspective for you: Next time someone asks a question like this in real life, go up to them and ask them if they asked that out of sheer stupidity or boredom. When they look insulted, just tell them that you don't know why people ask stupid questions like that and then inform them that most people would have been able to comprehend the answer without asking the question. Please report your results.

For someone who believes that the quality of forum posts greatly contribute to the overall well-being of the world, you really don't seem to put a lot of effort into treating others respectfully. Mark, and many other posters, were able to make the exact same point (that the two are not comparable) in a polite and respectful manner.

Snadam: Nice hat. When I get my Xbox back and we do some Halo 3, I'm going to be really disappointed if you don't sound like a crazy cowboy. Your avatar has set the bar quite high.

Turgon

dynamik wrote:

Turgon: I don't think you're completely familiar with the content in 291. It has routing, subnetting, etc., so there is a decent amount of overlap between the two. In fact, that CCIE you're working on might be made obsolete by MS RRAS in the near future, so you might want to start acquainting yourself with that material

Seriously though, what's been going on with you lately? Are you taking a break from your lab studies since you broke 300 hours? You've been posting football clips, asking about our internet usage at work, and now you're trying to settle disputes in an MCP forum. You're like a king that has descended from your castle in order to settle a dispute amongst peasants.

Goldmember: You completely lack tact (that's not a personal attack, just an observation).

This experiment might put things in perspective for you: Next time someone asks a question like this in real life, go up to them and ask them if they asked that out of sheer stupidity or boredom. When they look insulted, just tell them that you don't know why people ask stupid questions like that and then inform them that most people would have been able to comprehend the answer without asking the question. Please report your results.

For someone who believes that the quality of forum posts greatly contribute to the overall well-being of the world, you really don't seem to put a lot of effort into treating others respectfully. Mark, and many other posters, were able to make the exact same point (that the two are not comparable) in a polite and respectful manner.

Snadam: Nice hat. When I get my Xbox back and we do some Halo 3, I'm going to be really disappointed if you don't sound like a crazy cowboy. Your avatar has set the bar quite high.

It's hardly regression my friend. Are you MCP types not fit to wipe my shoes? I came from your ranks! I retain a healthy interest across forums and across platforms. Hopefully I can help inject some considered voice of reason into these arguments based on experience! But I may not always succeed.

As for the singular post I made on football clips, well I admit it was a diversion bit I do play the same position as Paul Thorburn myself when I do play rugby and having found the clip, thought the American Football types may find it interesting!

As for me, I remain totally engrossed in CCIE prep.

undomiel

dynamik wrote:

Snadam: Nice hat. When I get my Xbox back and we do some Halo 3, I'm going to be really disappointed if you don't sound like a crazy cowboy. Your avatar has set the bar quite high.

Very disappointing. I didn't see the hat anywhere when I met him!!!

famosbrown

Goldmember wrote:

snadam wrote:

Goldmember,
Well since you HAVEN'T TAKEN BOTH YET, I don't see how you can form a valid opinion that 291 is easy or otherwise...

Goldmember wrote:

The beast is overrated IMO. Having passed the CCNA twice, I have found studying for the Beast fairly easy besides RRAS.

Having passed the CCNA twice and studied for the Beast(which I will attempt next week), I feel confident in my remark that the Beast will be easier.

I see little or no reason to take it back. Studying for the Beast has taken me one month, whereas the CCNA took 6 months the first time, and about 3-4 months the second time.

That is a significant time difference.

Did you pass the exam (70-291)?

nel

famosbrown wrote:

Goldmember wrote:

snadam wrote:

Goldmember,
Well since you HAVEN'T TAKEN BOTH YET, I don't see how you can form a valid opinion that 291 is easy or otherwise...

Goldmember wrote:

The beast is overrated IMO. Having passed the CCNA twice, I have found studying for the Beast fairly easy besides RRAS.

Having passed the CCNA twice and studied for the Beast(which I will attempt next week), I feel confident in my remark that the Beast will be easier.

I see little or no reason to take it back. Studying for the Beast has taken me one month, whereas the CCNA took 6 months the first time, and about 3-4 months the second time.

That is a significant time difference.

Did you pass the exam (70-291)?

i cant remem seeing a *Pass* post