Is a bachelor's degree really necessary??

dcyphr80dcyphr80 Member Posts: 29 ■□□□□□□□□□
To land a good IT job? Right not I'm taking a combo course for A+, Net+, CCNA, Sec+, and MCP. What else would I need to land a GOOD IT job if i cannot persue a bachelors at this time?

Comments

  • tahjzhuantahjzhuan Member Posts: 281 ■■■■□□□□□□
    It depends on what you mean by 'good'. Certs are generally for more hands on jobs while degrees are more for management positions. Of course, this isn't always the case. Work experience can often be substituted for degrees but it isn't always the case. You want to have a combination of experience, formal education, and certs imho.
  • garv221garv221 Member Posts: 1,914
    Yes its worth it. If you are in a university setting, work and get experience on your campus network. A BS will hail over someone equally qualified as you who does not have one. Be different and get a degree. I see more and more ads that require at LEAST an associate degree.
  • unsw77unsw77 Member Posts: 1 ■□□□□□□□□□
    Today is not the same era as 80's where as long as you have diploma or bachelor degree, it can guarantee you to get a job easily. Now, the competition is very tight, you must have quality that make you have more value than others. I have a friend of mine who have Master degree in telecommunications, Bachelor degree in electrical, and IT certs (MCSE, MCDBA, MCSA, CCNP, CCNA, MCP). You know what? He ONLY work as a system engineer with salary only US$ 1400 a month. What on earth can you beleive it, huh? However, that's the fact.
    Now, I think you got my point that experience is much more valuable than a degree or a piece of IT certs!
  • /usr/usr Member Posts: 1,768
    have a friend of mine who have Master degree in telecommunications, Bachelor degree in electrical, and IT certs (MCSE, MCDBA, MCSA, CCNP, CCNA, MCP). You know what? He ONLY work as a system engineer with salary only US$ 1400 a month.
    icon_rolleyes.gif
  • james3302james3302 Member Posts: 24 ■□□□□□□□□□
    A degree is as useless as a glass with a hole in it. You have to get experience to get a job, and you cannot get experience without getting a job. Certifications might be good. Get a job in IT with your certs and then have the company help pay for your degree. There are planty of us out there with Bachelors degrees in Computer Science that cannot find a job, we are just waiting in line.
  • kicker22kicker22 Member Posts: 80 ■■□□□□□□□□
    $1400?! are you kidding me.. but no offense, your friend is not using his resources that well....unless if he has 0 experience prior his current job and that all the certs he achieved were through brain **** questions and such...
    well, his degrees are not into IT much..but anyway

    as for me, I was able to get a job of $50,000 annual salary with benefits straight after this semster of college. ( i am graduting in a month with CIS B.S).

    and my friend Keo, he graduated last december and he landed a job of $45,000 with his CIS Bachelor degree...

    so yeah.... your friend is not using his resources that well...
    and yes, college degree does matter!


    kicker
  • garv221garv221 Member Posts: 1,914
    james3302 wrote:
    A degree is as useless as a glass with a hole in it. You have to get experience to get a job, and you cannot get experience without getting a job. .
    My degree got me my present job three years ago half way through college.(systems admin) The fact is almost every university is offering IT BS degrees. It will not be long and the majority of the market will be filled with IT guys with same credentials as you, plus a degree in there profession to top it off. Do the math anyone with a college degree can also get certified and experience along the way. Never knock on a structured education.
    http://www.jobbankusa.com/ohb/ohb042.html- check it out. Reasons to get a degree.
  • wildfirewildfire Member Posts: 654
    I didnt do a degree and joined the Royal Air Force at 18 and have worked as a network engineer for the last 7 years, Im out soon and have been offered a job for £40000 + car providing I finish my CCNP before Im due to start. I have CCNA, CCDA, A couple of MCPs and oodles of experience! my freind from school went to university completed a degree in IT, then a masters after a year out. He works for a mobile phone company as a directory enquires operator on £13000 a year because nobody wants him. Morale you need experience no matter what, both together is great! but in the 5 years he was at uni I was gaining experience!
    Looking for CCIE lab study partnerts, in the UK or Online.
  • ajs1976ajs1976 Member Posts: 1,945
    garv221 wrote:
    james3302 wrote:
    A degree is as useless as a glass with a hole in it. You have to get experience to get a job, and you cannot get experience without getting a job. .
    My degree got me my present job three years ago half way through college.(systems admin) The fact is almost every university is offering IT BS degrees. It will not be long and the majority of the market will be filled with IT guys with same credentials as you, plus a degree in there profession to top it off. Do the math anyone with a college degree can also get certified and experience along the way. Never knock on a structured education.
    http://www.jobbankusa.com/ohb/ohb042.html- check it out. Reasons to get a degree.

    Your link go hosed by the dash. try http://www.jobbankusa.com/ohb/ohb042.html

    That info is pre-dot com bomb, and that time I left school with 3 CS classes and less then a year of helpdesk work and was able to get an OK job.

    After less then 2 years, I was able to move to a better job because of my experience and MCSE NT 4.0. the move took awhile because, I did't have a degree. Next monday, I will complete my Associates. If you can go to school now and get the degree, do it. It sucks going to school and working fulltime when you would rather be doing stuff with friends and family.

    Since the late 90s a number of things have affected the IT job market: Y2K fiasco, dot com bomb, 9/11, outsourcing. The market is tough right now, the more you have the better you will be.

    Experience is the most important. Different people have different opinions on which is more important (degree or certs) versus their own experience. I'm my experience, you need all three.

    No back to the original question: Do you need a bachelor's degree? No, but it will be easier with it. It is tough right now, and be prepared to claw your way in.

    if you can't go for a bachelor's degree, go for an associates and prusue some certs. Use one to help you with the other. The school I went to gave me credit for their Networking class, because I had completed the old Networking Essentials exam. I am using the Linux Administration class as prep for the Linux+ exam. Make sure to do an internship and co-op along the way.
    Andy

    2017 Goals: 1 of 5 courses complete, 0 of 2 exams complete
  • pmannpmann Member Posts: 79 ■■□□□□□□□□
    As one of my roles is hiring icon_evil.gif , I have to say that experience is definitely the key thing I look for. If I see a resume of someone without a degree that has worked their way up from the bottom level and has a modest but steady career progression, I would go for that person over a degree qualified candidate.

    My departments hiring budget is a fixed $ number. So if I can hire someone at market rate or lower, sometimes I have enough left in the budget to hire another person at technician/DST level. If I can hire two people instead of one, I would go for that since; I dont want to be reliant on any one single person; there needs to be a flow of younger people into the company.

    If you cant get that initial starting position, more education is an option. An alternative I can suggest is to go looking at some back door routes. One of my staff started work in the post-room, delivering mail around the site. He kept on asking over and over whether he could help out in IT and eventually I got him taking some calls on the help desk, emptying the printers etc. He's not paid much, but he is now a junior IT technician and has got a foot on the ladder. Remember that a lot of companies advertise jobs internally before they look outside, so if you can get any job but in a company you like, there's often a lot of scope to change disciplines into what you really want. Maybe study in the background while your waiting for opportunities to surface.

    Just my $0.02 from the hiring side of the table.
  • kicker22kicker22 Member Posts: 80 ■■□□□□□□□□
    there are many people out there going for college degree but they still cannot make it... either because no experience or no profound understanding & love of IT.

    now, just cause my friend and I made it...doesnt mean my other classmates made it through... as far as I know, half of them still didnt get a job yet...

    anyway,
    receipe = ingredients
    and if you have one missing ingredient (such as MILK)
    then there is no freaking way you can make a good marc. & cheese..

    and that is same to a job qualification..now days you need the following ingredients to compete:
    1. Degree
    2. Experience
    3. Certification

    If you have all of the 3 above...then you are all set...
    if you have no experience, then get a degree and then certs and then work on your experience..

    but to have one of the ingredients missing for all your career life..then you are going to be no where in this job market..

    so in other words, they all are important, and just dont try to get a shortcut way to the top by skipping one of the ingredients..

    kicker
  • viper75viper75 Member Posts: 726 ■■■■□□□□□□
    I agree 100% with pmann.

    :D
    CCNP Security - DONE!
    CCNP R&S - In Progress...
    CCIE Security - Future...
  • Main EventMain Event Member Posts: 124
    have a friend of mine who have Master degree in telecommunications, Bachelor degree in electrical, and IT certs (MCSE, MCDBA, MCSA, CCNP, CCNA, MCP). You know what? He ONLY work as a system engineer with salary only US$ 1400 a month.
    icon_rolleyes.gif

    icon_eek.gif I'm waiting for the punchline bro....






















































    Still waiting for the punchline icon_redface.gif
  • garv221garv221 Member Posts: 1,914
    ajs1976 wrote:

    Since the late 90s a number of things have affected the IT job market: Y2K fiasco, dot com bomb, 9/11, outsourcing. The market is tough right now, the more you have the better you will be.

    Experience is the most important. Different people have different opinions on which is more important (degree or certs) versus their own experience. I'm my experience, you need all three.

    No back to the original question: Do you need a bachelor's degree? No, but it will be easier with it. It is tough right now, and be prepared to claw your way in.
    First off, sorry about the link. Secondly, I agree with you. All three are a MUST. All I am saying is, everyone knows the obvious "you need experience & Certs" what about the guy with the degree, experience and certs? He has the best chances. I use to think you really didn't need a college degree, all you needed was certs, now that I'm in the IT field I am happy I went to school, and feel have an edge with a degree, 4 years experience as a Systems Admin, and currently working on MCSE/CCNA. That degree for me right now is working to seperate me from alot of my peers. It just seems foolish not to go to School, especially if your young.
  • MindrakerMindraker Member Posts: 25 ■□□□□□□□□□
    pmann wrote:
    As one of my roles is hiring icon_evil.gif , I have to say that experience is definitely the key thing I look for.

    However, all other factors being equal between two candidates, if one candidate had a college education, and another candidate did not, you would certainly find the candidate with the college education more appealing to hire, no?
  • pmannpmann Member Posts: 79 ■■□□□□□□□□
    I guess your probably right but then again Im not totally sure about that. In that kind of circumstance, it would come down to what the applicants were actually like.

    Ive taken on very well qualified and stunningly clever candidates, but as it turned out, they didnt fit in and were totally incapable of working as part of a team. Ive also met candidates with very little education who have turned out to be fast learners, hungry for success and became superb employees.

    A kind of personal rule I use, is that I consider a resume to reflect 50% of a person. The other 50% like their social manner, attitude, ambition, approachability, professionalism, problem solving skill etc has to be assessed (as best as possible) at an interview.

    You just cant tell what people are like from a resume...
  • quickpotquickpot Member Posts: 47 ■■□□□□□□□□
  • DaPunnisherDaPunnisher Member Posts: 108
    1. Education
    2. Experience
    3. People Skills!
    4. Certs

    Being in the IT field means dealing with people on a daily basis. You won't last very long if you have the personality of a rock! You will deal with genuinely nice people and also with people who are total jerks!

    Ask yourself; which one are you?

    I've met Net Techs that can quote protocols and procedures from memory, but come across as arrogant and condensending. Who wants to deal with an A$$hole like that?
  • mobri09mobri09 Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 723
    yeh they want to see that degree. I just graduated with my Associates degree in Computer Science and the other day i had a terrific job opportunity(Network Tech). Well the interview went well and i told them what i knew. Well it didn't matter because they called me back saying they found someone with a bachelor's degree. I was really upset because this job could of been big..company car and everything. Everyone wants that degree unless you know someone. Now i am headed of to a 4 year school. I have to!
  • bwolfebwolfe Member Posts: 24 ■□□□□□□□□□
    unsw77 wrote:
    Now, I think you got my point that experience is much more valuable than a degree or a piece of IT certs!

    And having all three is best of all. Many employers view a lack of certification and/or lack of post secondary education as a ability or lack of willingness to put yourself out. If your a dinosaur who's been with the same company for years then you may still be riding on your experience alone. But anyone looking for work in today's job market better have more than a claim of experience. And that is a fact!
  • bwolfebwolfe Member Posts: 24 ■□□□□□□□□□
    Also... don't underestimate the fact that what employers are looking for is the right person for the job. That doesn't necessarily mean the best educated, most certified, or most experienced. If the job requires both technical and human skills in equal proportions then many technically capable people will simply be disqualified regardless of how technically capable they are.

    I know many people who consider themselves quite the tech heads but they'll always be limited in their careers because as human beings they are simply disfunctional.
  • kicker22kicker22 Member Posts: 80 ■■□□□□□□□□
    unsw77, I dont mean to offend you or your friend... but you keep your friend as an extreme example..and that way you put other people who want to be in IT field down..

    I mean honestly, I have B.S in CIS, and CCNA and 2 years of experience, and I make 50 K now..

    so lets try to be optimistic and not be pessimistic and give extreme cases that could only happen once in a million..


    thanks
  • BigO1120BigO1120 Member Posts: 110
    james3302 wrote:
    A degree is as useless as a glass with a hole in it. You have to get experience to get a job, and you cannot get experience without getting a job. Certifications might be good. Get a job in IT with your certs and then have the company help pay for your degree. There are planty of us out there with Bachelors degrees in Computer Science that cannot find a job, we are just waiting in line.

    My brother-in-law got let go because he did not have a Bachelor's degree. He worked for a real big pharmaceutical company but as a contractor. He worked for this company for so many years doing architectural work on Exchange Servers making over $300,000 a year. Once the company hired him as a permanent employee the released him because he was 6 credits short of a Bachelor’s degree. This guy basically built the company’s exchange infrastructure and all because of a stupid degree he was let go.

    The degree may be useless but there are companies out there that make it a requirement.
    A Thing Of Beauty Is A Joy Forever
  • bluemasonbluemason Member Posts: 31 ■■□□□□□□□□
    Let's see.. I'm gainfully employed but don't have a degree as of now.. I'm a geek ( tho that is not my job function - nothing IT/PC related at all) @ heart and I am looking to change departments. Everyone knows I'm a geek HOWEVER - without a 'paper trail' my chances of lateral movability are very limited....

    What did I do? ..started taking online courses; CompTIA Certs ( A+, Network+ tomorrow (wish me luck!), iNET+, Linux+ & Security+ planned for April, May & June respectively. I just applied to Champlain College in the US (am in .ca) to complete an A.S. Degree which leads into a B.S. degree in Computing & Digital Forensics ( will find out next week if I got accepted ); after completing the B.S. I am going for a Masters degree...

    Do I have to do all this to advance ? Yes. Anyone who believes that an education is not required simply lives in a bubble, afaic. Just have a look at educational forums on the net ( www.degreeinfo.com where I hang ) and see how many folks are pursuing Bachelors / Masters / Doctorates...

    I have yet to meet the person who says "Damnit Jim, I didn't get that job because I had a Bachelor's Degree! That guy with his GED/HS Diploma nailed that job!"

    Certifications are not the end all be all, they are a compliment to a Degree... Granted, just because you have a Degree does not mean you know ..well.. anything of the field ( I've helped many a CS friends out when they had trouble..) which is why Certs are the gravy... it's the "hang on Jim... you have a Bachelors Degree & CompTIA/Cisco/What-have-you recognized Certs? Let's chat.... "

    If you think a combination of the two is not in your favor you're sadly mistaken. Prior to my current job I worked 12 years in the IT Industry and have 12 years of hands-on experience but, as stated above, am lacking the papertrail...
  • qsubqsub Member Posts: 303
    In Canada, you can't take Network Administration in university. Our colleges don't give degrees, only diploma's.

    I plan on moving to America, I would imagine degrees are importent in America, so what options do I have?
    World Cup 2006 - Zidane - Never Forget.
  • D-boyD-boy Member Posts: 595
    unsw77 wrote:
    I have a friend of mine who have Master degree in telecommunications, Bachelor degree in electrical, and IT certs (MCSE, MCDBA, MCSA, CCNP, CCNA, MCP). You know what? He ONLY work as a system engineer with salary only US$ 1400 a month

    icon_eek.gif I must be doing good then I get US$2120 a month icon_wink.gif and I'm just on a help desk icon_lol.gif
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