CCNA in US get paid crap!

UnixGuy

oo_snoopy wrote:

Supply/demand.

I don't know why so many average IT people are so inclined to learn Cisco stuff anyways.

+1

Almost every other person I know has a CCNA or planning to! People think learning networks is cool ? I don't really get these people.

Vassago68

If you want to know more about the oil situation, read this page. It is very informative on the area.

www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net/

Now that that's out of the way, I am studying for my CCNA right now, but I have 3 years left in the Army. Most of our work as Techs involve Cisco. So it's better for me to study this right now anyway. Besides, after I get that and complete my degree next year, I will be continuing on and doing my CCSP or my CCVP. I do not want to go down the networking lane. I have not done much other then hands on, and I can get my way around a router to configure our fiber network fairly easy. Don't get me wrong, I had to read up on areas, and just fumble around a bit, but now I am fine for what we need.

Besides, I think I know more people that are into routers and switches then anything else. I'd rather have a skill that they need, rather then flood the market with another skill that is already having a hard time in areas getting employed.

The plus side, is I grew up in Chicago and will be moving back there. Plus I have many friends in the field that have got out and are already working. So I can not stress enough how much knowing someone that can open a door for you helps.

Talic

UnixGuy wrote:

oo_snoopy wrote:

Supply/demand.

I don't know why so many average IT people are so inclined to learn Cisco stuff anyways.

+1

Almost every other person I know has a CCNA or planning to! People think learning networks is cool ? I don't really get these people.

Networking is cool wireless, routers, switches, vpn, servers are cool.

The way I think people see it is theres Microsoft and then theres Cisco when it comes to IT. Everything is pretty much on the side line. Except for maybe *nix. So theres basically two major players from what I can tell.

Every other IT company doesn't seem to offer "ladder" paths so people are less inclined to work their way up and learn. VMware is a good example, there is only one or two certs (I believe) and they require you to pay for training. If there was some line of certs for virtualization then I think there would be more people focused on it. [shrugs] theres also other vm stuff like citrix/microsoft which complicates things. Pretty much if you want to focus on IT, its either MS or Cisco. I'm surprised that HP doesn't have any networking certs of their own, I believe they had a pretty big share of network equipment.


As for me, I'll probably take a couple cisco classes but the reason would be due to the lack of IT classes at my campus (or school for that matter, no in class unix in class, just online, grrrr) so I really don't get a choice. Theres also a lack of Windows classes (almost no server cert classes) at my campus, the school has some but at a different campus them mine which is way to far to go to.



/edit also about the oil thing, after reading that it just reinforces the argument we're all going to be living on farms in the future, maybe our grandchildren or great grandchildren. If we don't kill each other first of course. Serfdom and the end of the Middle Class, here we come!

I kinda believe though that we can pull away from that though, shame the government doesn't want to react quick enough. Plastic from algae and hydrogen fuel cells will hopefully come through in the end <crossesfingers>.

nel

UnixGuy wrote:

oo_snoopy wrote:

Supply/demand.

I don't know why so many average IT people are so inclined to learn Cisco stuff anyways.

+1

Almost every other person I know has a CCNA or planning to! People think learning networks is cool ? I don't really get these people.

It certainly seems that the cisco track is becoming very very popular. I for one are hoping to achieve my ccna and more because i am interested in the field and actually enjoy it - this is my main motivation. I know what you mean about other people who take it as a trend though, i dont think its helped by the fact that most job ads i see says mcse/ccna quals, regardless of there position! Besides i think you loose the real tag alongs when they come to the ccnp, seems to me like only the real people who are interested etc will go past the ccna.

Turgon

I would avoid the UK unless you get paid incredible money. Oil prices are thirteen times more expensive than 10 years ago. Everything manufactured and transported incurs oil costs passed on to the consumer. So the price of everything you buy is going up. The housing market is taking a bashing too and credit harder to come by as banks cut back on lending. I see fewer new cars on the roads and many fancy cars up for sale. Folks are grumbling here and cutting back on luxeries. Some 'noises' on Wall Street suggest we may have peaked the worst of it. I sure hope so or it will be 'heat' or 'eat over here for the middle classes. It's already the case for low income people. Clearly problems with oil, water and food worldwide right now. Let's hope world leaders can do their jobs and steer a steady course!

Ahriakin

I don't see how having more knowledgeable folks in the industry hurts at all. The value in a cert is in your personal satisfaction with the actual learning and the commercial side is in how you apply it. While it may have less standout value on your resume and more CCNA's out there does mean more competition it also gives us more reason to try harder and move further along the track. But it should never have been looked on as the last thing you need to do to get a good job anyway.

As for the petrol thing don't forget to think of it as impact and not just price. Gas/Petrol is gigher in europe but the cars are in general more fuel efficient, public transport is common and doesn't have a stigma attached to it and everything in general is built closer together. Less fuel is used by the average person even if it does cost more than here. Balances it out really.

itdaddy

oo_snoopy
your comment:

I don't know why so many average IT people are so inclined to learn Cisco stuff anyways.

I am not average by no means bud! You may be ccnp but I could sure hang with you and maybe run some cricles around you! I chose cisco because I am command line junky
and there are plenty of guys on here that are not average either! We have a CCNP almost
a CCIE, he is also a MCSE and I have run some circles around him..so I do not like your comment of saying we are average. Dude, we would not get along if I worked with you. I migiht bust your certification bubble! I started this thread becuase I saw CCNA in UK
paid way more than USA CCNAs and was wondering why...not **** and moaning like!
dont get me started! grrrrrr! hahhahhah!

sir_creammy
UnixGuy

dudes what is wrong with you; we learn networking cause it is cool; it is nice to know all layers
A+ computer layers, MCSE to learn server stuff, and CCNA to understand networks. you guys have CCNA I do not understand why you dog people who study cisco or want CCNA? You have your CCNA why cannot we? I am only doing it cause I have to get to CCNP...plus it is fun
your guy's comments confuse me! and snoopy comment just ticked me off (dont take much! hahaahhaha)

UnixGuy

Guys, Networking is cool. I also studied CCNA for over a year at university

But what I see is that everybody is trying to (and actually gets) CCNA (one way or another if you know what I mean). Even those who doesn't know anything about networking (or IT) wants a CCNA and think it will make them professionals - it doesn't. It's a good entry level introduction to networking and CISCO world in particular and that's all.
.

There are other paths other than Microsoft and cisco. There are lots of certifications for Storages, SANS, Unix, Linux, IBM, Sun.. and infrastructure work in general. So it isn't just about configuring network devices, there's much more.

hypnotoad

Ever notice how those same sites who tell you that you should be making double your salary also advertise certs/education/job sites that claim they'll help you make more money? it's a racket.

Turgon

itdaddy wrote:

oo_snoopy
your comment:

I don't know why so many average IT people are so inclined to learn Cisco stuff anyways.

I am not average by no means bud! You may be ccnp but I could sure hang with you and maybe run some cricles around you! I chose cisco because I am command line junky
and there are plenty of guys on here that are not average either! We have a CCNP almost
a CCIE, he is also a MCSE and I have run some circles around him..so I do not like your comment of saying we are average. Dude, we would not get along if I worked with you. I migiht bust your certification bubble! I started this thread becuase I saw CCNA in UK
paid way more than USA CCNAs and was wondering why...not **** and moaning like!
dont get me started! grrrrrr! hahhahhah!

sir_creammy
UnixGuy

dudes what is wrong with you; we learn networking cause it is cool; it is nice to know all layers
A+ computer layers, MCSE to learn server stuff, and CCNA to understand networks. you guys have CCNA I do not understand why you dog people who study cisco or want CCNA? You have your CCNA why cannot we? I am only doing it cause I have to get to CCNP...plus it is fun
your guy's comments confuse me! and snoopy comment just ticked me off (dont take much! hahaahhaha)

hehehe..In my experience there are lots of 'network' people around but really good ones, that's a different matter. Certs are surely not the whole deal there..elapsed time and experience are big factors. Nevertheless If I was you I would press on with your CCNA. A track well learned will give you insights that you just won't get at home on the rack or at work. Networking is cool but it's a long term thing not least with multiple vendors..Cisco, Juniper, Foundry, Riverstone et al and you need time to get exposure to all!

itdaddy

Turgon

Thanks! moving on.....getting my certs and my experience!

sthomas

UnixGuy wrote:

Guys, Networking is cool. I also studied CCNA for over a year at university

But what I see is that everybody is trying to (and actually gets) CCNA (one way or another if you know what I mean). Even those who doesn't know anything about networking (or IT) wants a CCNA and think it will make them professionals - it doesn't. It's a good entry level introduction to networking and CISCO world in particular and that's all.

There are other paths other than Microsoft and cisco. There are lots of certifications for Storages, SANS, Unix, Linux, IBM, Sun.. and infrastructure work in general. So it isn't just about configuring network devices, there's much more.

There are several reasons why people persue the CCNA certification. I will list my reasons and surely some of them are the same for everyone else. Not in any particular order.

1. The CCNA is well known even with HR and IT Managers who don't really follow IT certifications.

2. Almost every IT job would benefit at least somewhat from the Networking knowledge learned by studying for the CCNA even if you don't use Cisco equipment (i.e. Nortel, Juniper, 3Com, etc...)

3. The difficulty of the exam has given Cisco certifications a good reputation.

4. The powers that be want me to get it and I get a raise for getting it.

5. When I pass the exam I will no doubt get to work with more Cisco equipment.

6. Cisco gear is fun to learn and work on, and Networking is awesome.

I know there are other certifications out there but they are not nearly as well known as the CCNA, same goes for the MCSE. You really can't go wrong with getting it in my opinion if you plan on working in IT.

Crunchyhippo

itdaddy wrote:

hey guys
i was looking at CCNA and CCNP salaries in USA an we they get paid crap compared to UK
or Europe? what gives. Amazing how much less a CCN in USA gets. I mean
like USA a CCNA gets like 29K to 35K whereas in UK they get like 42k and up! holy crap!

Where can you get a job in the U.S. with a CCNA?

Rather, when you say "CCNA" and "job" - think "oil" and "water."

GT-Rob

My work hires CCNAs starting at 50k. We just hired about 12 of them in the past month too.

shednik

I really don't see the point in this thread at all...

A CCNA does not get you a job whatsoever all you may have read was a survey of people who had their CCNA and their salary in the US and then one in the UK. You need to consider cost of living differentiates and dictates salaries along with experience. So really the average in the UK would balance out to the US because of the differences in costs of living. So really I don't think it's valid, I'm a CCNA and I make 46k so am I that above the average?? No I have some good experience, I work for a well paying company, and I proved myself in the interviews. The are way to many other factors it's not based off of the certification thats actually like it has been said more of a personal thing to accomplish and it can help round off your experience. Don't take this as it's not worth it to study for the certs without the experience but I wouldn't expect to be paid well doing that trade without being able to prove yourself.

itdaddy

shednik


yeah you have a BS and MS and certs plus experience of course you getpaid well.
i was just saying what you said it was a popular job emplyment agency in UK and all
i was was enquiring about that is all what started it.

but dude of course you get paid well but you are not just a CCNA.

another monkey wrench..i know a guy in our town here who is a CCNA and has experience beyond that gets paid 80k per year and doesnt have as many certs as you do nor a MS degree.
I woudl say 80 k for that is pretty darn good!

but was just talking about the employmenty agencies in UK since I dont live there and I wanted to get a real feel from those who lived what it was like that is the point of this thread


and GT-Robs comment is why I asked about it! CCNA is my area get like 30 to 35K started off
with experience i am mvoing to canada! wee wee!

Crunchyhippo

shednik wrote:

I really don't see the point in this thread at all...

A CCNA does not get you a job whatsoever all you may have read was a survey of people who had their CCNA and their salary in the US and then one in the UK. You need to consider cost of living differentiates and dictates salaries along with experience. So really the average in the UK would balance out to the US because of the differences in costs of living. So really I don't think it's valid, I'm a CCNA and I make 46k so am I that above the average?? No I have some good experience, I work for a well paying company, and I proved myself in the interviews. The are way to many other factors it's not based off of the certification thats actually like it has been said more of a personal thing to accomplish and it can help round off your experience. Don't take this as it's not worth it to study for the certs without the experience but I wouldn't expect to be paid well doing that trade without being able to prove yourself.

Did you have experience already when you got your CCNA? If so, then announcing your 46k/yr salary is really irrelevant. I think the point of this thread was, among other things, that if you go after a CCNA with no experience, you're screwed, and you're going to be bitterly disilllusioned once you start hunting for a job. I've seen it with many people who went through the Cisco Networking Academy here. Grand, high hopes are run down by the real world of employers who toss your resume in their trash can when they don't see experience. Do an "internship", you say, and get experience? This is just IT-speak for "work for free." If you're on a tight budget, this can be a real challenge, to say the least. It's even worse if you have a wife and kids to support and can't afford to just work for free or for six bucks an hour at a low-level IT job (to "get experience") for any amount of time. So, many folks who've studied their a**es off wind up going back to the help wanted ads in the paper or looking for other training schools where their chances of finding gainful employment when they finish their studies are better.

Turgon

Crunchyhippo wrote:

shednik wrote:

I really don't see the point in this thread at all...

A CCNA does not get you a job whatsoever all you may have read was a survey of people who had their CCNA and their salary in the US and then one in the UK. You need to consider cost of living differentiates and dictates salaries along with experience. So really the average in the UK would balance out to the US because of the differences in costs of living. So really I don't think it's valid, I'm a CCNA and I make 46k so am I that above the average?? No I have some good experience, I work for a well paying company, and I proved myself in the interviews. The are way to many other factors it's not based off of the certification thats actually like it has been said more of a personal thing to accomplish and it can help round off your experience. Don't take this as it's not worth it to study for the certs without the experience but I wouldn't expect to be paid well doing that trade without being able to prove yourself.

Did you have experience already when you got your CCNA? If so, then announcing your 46k/yr salary is really irrelevant. I think the point of this thread was, among other things, that if you go after a CCNA with no experience, you're screwed, and you're going to be bitterly disilllusioned once you start hunting for a job. I've seen it with many people who went through the Cisco Networking Academy here. Grand, high hopes are run down by the real world of employers who toss your resume in their trash can when they don't see experience. Do an "internship", you say, and get experience? This is just IT-speak for "work for free." If you're on a tight budget, this can be a real challenge, to say the least. It's even worse if you have a wife and kids to support and can't afford to just work for free or for six bucks an hour at a low-level IT job (to "get experience") for any amount of time. So, many folks who've studied their a**es off wind up going back to the help wanted ads in the paper or looking for other training schools where their chances of finding gainful employment when they finish their studies are better.

A lot of qualified people have to work for peanuts to begin with. It took me 18 months with a Masters Degree in IT to get a crummy job in IT without experience in 1997. Four years later I was in charge of the entire IT infrastructure for a transatlantic development house for FX trading solutions supplying BoA and the rest. Eventually someone gave me a break and the rest is history. Most people that get on take a 'crummy' job and build from there. I recall one guy on a forum back in 2001 blasting his way through his CCNP and CCDP. He had no experience and wasn't prepared to start at entry level. Unless you have buddies who will open doors for you, you have to.

itdaddy

crunchyhippo said:

that if you go after a CCNA with no experience, you're screwed, and you're going to be bitterly disilllusioned once you start hunting for a job.

couldnt have said it better myself!

stlsmoore

Turgon wrote:

Crunchyhippo wrote:

shednik wrote:

I really don't see the point in this thread at all...

A CCNA does not get you a job whatsoever all you may have read was a survey of people who had their CCNA and their salary in the US and then one in the UK. You need to consider cost of living differentiates and dictates salaries along with experience. So really the average in the UK would balance out to the US because of the differences in costs of living. So really I don't think it's valid, I'm a CCNA and I make 46k so am I that above the average?? No I have some good experience, I work for a well paying company, and I proved myself in the interviews. The are way to many other factors it's not based off of the certification thats actually like it has been said more of a personal thing to accomplish and it can help round off your experience. Don't take this as it's not worth it to study for the certs without the experience but I wouldn't expect to be paid well doing that trade without being able to prove yourself.

Did you have experience already when you got your CCNA? If so, then announcing your 46k/yr salary is really irrelevant. I think the point of this thread was, among other things, that if you go after a CCNA with no experience, you're screwed, and you're going to be bitterly disilllusioned once you start hunting for a job. I've seen it with many people who went through the Cisco Networking Academy here. Grand, high hopes are run down by the real world of employers who toss your resume in their trash can when they don't see experience. Do an "internship", you say, and get experience? This is just IT-speak for "work for free." If you're on a tight budget, this can be a real challenge, to say the least. It's even worse if you have a wife and kids to support and can't afford to just work for free or for six bucks an hour at a low-level IT job (to "get experience") for any amount of time. So, many folks who've studied their a**es off wind up going back to the help wanted ads in the paper or looking for other training schools where their chances of finding gainful employment when they finish their studies are better.

A lot of qualified people have to work for peanuts to begin with. It took me 18 months with a Masters Degree in IT to get a crummy job in IT without experience in 1997. Four years later I was in charge of the entire IT infrastructure for a transatlantic development house for FX trading solutions supplying BoA and the rest. Eventually someone gave me a break and the rest is history. Most people that get on take a 'crummy' job and build from there. I recall one guy on a forum back in 2001 blasting his way through his CCNP and CCDP. He had no experience and wasn't prepared to start at entry level. Unless you have buddies who will open doors for you, you have to.

Exactly...I did that same exact thing...I worked for free which eventually moved to 6 an hour, and now I'm making triple that. Not great yet but for my age and amount of experience I'm going to be well off down the road because I got deep into the trenches and knew going in that it was only going to be temporary.

gojericho0

Crunchyhippo wrote:

So, many folks who've studied their a**es off wind up going back to the help wanted ads in the paper or looking for other training schools where their chances of finding gainful employment when they finish their studies are better.

I think there is only so much schooling you can do until you hit a point where it is actually a disservice. If you already went to a training school or have some entry level certs why put more money into studying\schooling for another cert or go for some type of advanced degree? I think at this point a person should re-evaluate and possibly use the savings of not having training\education expenses to help meet ends meet for the temporary lesser paying job. Once you have experience and advance, advance the training and education as well.

shednik

Crunchyhippo wrote:

Did you have experience already when you got your CCNA? If so, then announcing your 46k/yr salary is really irrelevant. I think the point of this thread was, among other things, that if you go after a CCNA with no experience, you're screwed, and you're going to be bitterly disilllusioned once you start hunting for a job. I've seen it with many people who went through the Cisco Networking Academy here. Grand, high hopes are run down by the real world of employers who toss your resume in their trash can when they don't see experience. Do an "internship", you say, and get experience? This is just IT-speak for "work for free." If you're on a tight budget, this can be a real challenge, to say the least. It's even worse if you have a wife and kids to support and can't afford to just work for free or for six bucks an hour at a low-level IT job (to "get experience") for any amount of time. So, many folks who've studied their a**es off wind up going back to the help wanted ads in the paper or looking for other training schools where their chances of finding gainful employment when they finish their studies are better.

I had experience in IT but not in networking aside from helping my previous company's network admin on a conversion project. I had 1 1/2 years of desktop support, and 1/2 year of doing minor system admin and security work. my point was a salary survey is a bunch of garbage because there are way to many factors that come into play when determining a salary. to itdaddy I only have a BS and getting ready to start my MS. Crunchy do you have any IT experience at all?? Do you have any type of schooling completed?? I disagree with you saying you're screwed with out experience to become a network tech/admin/eng a lot of time you need some type of experience to show you can work with technology. I worked with many different technologies in my first two years and showed I can adapt well, if you have no experience then you need to start below networking i'm sorry it's possible to pass it up but it's not easy. I don't think think you should expect to have a networking related job without some of the above. My company has hired people fresh out of school with a BS and get to immediately get their hand dirty in some cisco gear but they are not the norm in my eyes. You just need to market yourself to more then networking positions because it sounds like that is all you are looking for. I saw your other posts about RHT and Tek I can understand that I also have to consider that for employment but I know a lot of companies will give you benefits off the bat if you need them. I don't think contracting jobs are a good idea for someone who has a family and needs steady benefits. I'd like to do contracts but have to wait until my wife has a good nursing position before I can even consider that. I just got irritated with this thread because I don't think the survey's are relevant at all, they're pretty much a crock in my eyes.

CCIEWANNABE

if you guys want to make the big money, gov't contractor is the way to go. I work with people that don't even know how to subnet that get 50k and better. if you know anybody in the st. louis metropolitan area who are looking for a position let me know. I may be able to hook it up. You will need to be able to obtain a security clearance though so take that into consideration. and once you get your foot into the door as a gov't contractor, its over. you can pretty much make more than CCIE's if you are willing to go overseas. I got friends that are in Bahrain right now that will pull down 150K after taxes in one year (first 80k earned is tax free!!). And don't get me wrong, Bahrain is a very safe place to work. so you do the math and let me know what you think. I'm not saying that trying to obtain your CCIE is the wrong path to go, just saying that there are alot easier ways to get paid the big bucks than trying to get your number. you just got to get your foot in the door and after that, its all good.

BeaverC32

CCNPWANNABE wrote:

you can pretty much make more than CCIE's if you are willing to go overseas. I got friends that are in Bahrain right now that will pull down 150K after taxes in one year (first 80k earned is tax free!!). And don't get me wrong, Bahrain is a very safe place to work. so you do the math and let me know what you think.

I would not be happy with this type of job, regardless of the $$$. An important factor to consider is family and friends -- no amount of money could replace that. But for those willing to travel, I am sure this is a very lucrative career.

Vassago68

I agree. I am in the Army over here, and I know plenty of contractors that just come over here for 3-5 years straight, make 1 million dollars, and then go back to the states and do whatever they want. Least then they have the cash to start up a business, or invest and live off of while they persue other projects.

I myself will not be going that route though. I have a clearance and know enough people in contracting and other areas to get my foot in the door pretty much anywhere in the US. That is one great thing about being in the Army, you network with persons from all over.

CCIEWANNABE

BeaverC32 wrote:

CCNPWANNABE wrote:

you can pretty much make more than CCIE's if you are willing to go overseas. I got friends that are in Bahrain right now that will pull down 150K after taxes in one year (first 80k earned is tax free!!). And don't get me wrong, Bahrain is a very safe place to work. so you do the math and let me know what you think.

I would not be happy with this type of job, regardless of the $$$. An important factor to consider is family and friends -- no amount of money could replace that. But for those willing to travel, I am sure this is a very lucrative career.

it sure isn't a career path for all, just saying for those on this forum who complain about getting paid crap that there are positions out there that pay extemely well. and if you can't work under those conditions well, thats your personal problem so don't complain about not being able to find high paying jobs because they are out there if you are willing to sacrifice a little. no excuses when it comes to salary, you can make as much as you want in this field.