what to do with life

aueddonline

Hey guys bit of advice needed, see what you guys think.
I worked as a retail manager for 5 years after leaving school at 16, decided it wasn’t really for me so went travelling to Australia and started my CCNA April 2007 in Brisbane when I joined TE.
Anyway since then I have passed the CCNA (about 7 months ago) and am soon to pass the CCNP (BSCI) studying at home and I’ve also done some work with my Uncle who does consultancy for a couple of offices in my town mainly Windows stuff, Not really getting paid though, which is fine I’m happy for the experience and I know there is no money to pay me much.

I’m finding it hard to fit into the job market with people saying I am over qualified for a 1st line support job (I don’t share this opinion) and the other jobs where I am not experienced enough (true probably).
Anyway I have an interview for a foundation Uni course next week. I purely applied because I am getting a bit sick of having little contact with people that are into IT. In fact I could count the people I have spoken to that have IT qualifications on one hand ummmmm three fingers and that included talking to myself in the mirror. My other Uncle has a CCIE and has advised me to just stick to the Cisco study but I was thinking maybe that is his opinion because 10 years ago a CCNA cert would have got you a job.

Are my chances of getting a job going to increase when I finally slug my way thought the CCNP? I’m 24 now so I wouldn’t mind getting paid

My ultimate goal in terms of study is Cisco (CCNP, CCVP or CCSP dare I write CCIE, some Linux and Linux Security,

So I guess what i’m asking is go to uni for this foundation year or finish up the CCNP at home? I could try both but I’d prefer to do one properly.
Anyway let me know what you think

nicklauscombs

I would highly suggest getting all the real world experience you can even if that means having to leave off the ccna cert on your resume to get the first line support jobs or getting an internship. While CCNP can open many doors, employers will also be looking for hands on experience and having the CCNP doesn't necessarily guarantee a job (but it doesn't hurt either . )

Inc

University will expand your social network. Also summer internships and/or voluntary jobs may be an option.

sthomas

aueddonline wrote:

Hey guys bit of advice needed, see what you guys think.
I worked as a retail manager for 5 years after leaving school at 16, decided it wasn’t really for me so went travelling to Australia and started my CCNA April 2007 in Brisbane when I joined TE.
Anyway since then I have passed the CCNA (about 7 months ago) and am soon to pass the CCNP (BSCI) studying at home and I’ve also done some work with my Uncle who does consultancy for a couple of offices in my town mainly Windows stuff, Not really getting paid though, which is fine I’m happy for the experience and I know there is no money to pay me much.

I’m finding it hard to fit into the job market with people saying I am over qualified for a 1st line support job (I don’t share this opinion) and the other jobs where I am not experienced enough (true probably).
Anyway I have an interview for a foundation Uni course next week. I purely applied because I am getting a bit sick of having little contact with people that are into IT. In fact I could count the people I have spoken to that have IT qualifications on one hand ummmmm three fingers and that included talking to myself in the mirror. My other Uncle has a CCIE and has advised me to just stick to the Cisco study but I was thinking maybe that is his opinion because 10 years ago a CCNA cert would have got you a job.

Are my chances of getting a job going to increase when I finally slug my way thought the CCNP? I’m 24 now so I wouldn’t mind getting paid

My ultimate goal in terms of study is Cisco (CCNP, CCVP or CCSP dare I write CCIE ), some Linux and Linux Security,

So I guess what i’m asking is go to uni for this foundation year or finish up the CCNP at home? I could try both but I’d prefer to do one properly.
Anyway let me know what you think

Are employers saying you are overqualifed for 1st line support jobs because of your CCNA or the experience you have working with your uncle? Maybe you need to shoot a little higher like 2nd or 3rd line support. I would not think having a CCNA with the experience you have would be a bad thing. And knowing 3 people that work in IT is not bad starting off, especially since you are related to someone that works in IT and has a CCIE! I would hold off on the CCNP though, unless the person you know with the CCIE says he will give you a job once you get it. Check out this thread to see why I say that.

http://www.techexams.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=34931

Good luck in your career!

aueddonline

The other thing that I could do is start studying for an entry level linux cert and look for a second line job with that when that was finished?

I'm not interested in Microsoft and I can't really see an interview for a second line Microsoft job going well if at all unless I had atleast MCSA level knowledge which I'm not interested in getting anyway.

Mishra

Look for jobs at a NOC. They love CCNAs and it's entry level.

Crunchyhippo

Mishra wrote:

Look for jobs at a NOC. They love CCNAs and it's entry level.

Have you actually applied in the job market? Yeah, employers like CCNAs - only experienced need apply.

With no experience in the IT field, it probably doesn't matter how many certs you have or whether it's a CCNA or a CCNP; you're still on the outside looking in when it comes to getting a job.

shednik

Crunchyhippo wrote:

Mishra wrote:

Look for jobs at a NOC. They love CCNAs and it's entry level.

Have you actually applied in the job market? Yeah, employers like CCNAs - only experienced need apply.

With no experience in the IT field, it probably doesn't matter how many certs you have or whether it's a CCNA or a CCNP; you're still on the outside looking in when it comes to getting a job.

And I'll say this once again crunchy what jobs are you applying for?? you seem to think it's literally impossible to work in IT at all.

sthomas

aueddonline wrote:

The other thing that I could do is start studying for an entry level linux cert and look for a second line job with that when that was finished?

I'm not interested in Microsoft and I can't really see an interview for a second line Microsoft job going well if at all unless I had atleast MCSA level knowledge which I'm not interested in getting anyway.

Working on a Linux cert would be good and most importantly with the knowledge of Linux you would gain that would help set you apart from the crowd. As far as Microsoft goes, I think it is good to get a Microsoft cert but definitely no necessary. Just remember that Microsoft is everywhere though so having a certain understanding of the technology is important. You do not need an MCSA to do Microsoft support or necessarily that level of knowledge starting off doing 2nd line support. Once you get the job you will start getting experience.

BeaverC32

CrunchyHippo, you are just about the most bitter person here! I have seen many success stories on how certification with no experience has helped people land their first IT job (including jobs other than helpdesk).

sir_creamy_

Crunchyhippo wrote:

Have you actually applied in the job market? Yeah, employers like CCNAs - only experienced need apply.

With no experience in the IT field, it probably doesn't matter how many certs you have or whether it's a CCNA or a CCNP; you're still on the outside looking in when it comes to getting a job.

Join the circus.

Mishra

Crunchyhippo wrote:

Mishra wrote:

Look for jobs at a NOC. They love CCNAs and it's entry level.

Have you actually applied in the job market? Yeah, employers like CCNAs - only experienced need apply.

With no experience in the IT field, it probably doesn't matter how many certs you have or whether it's a CCNA or a CCNP; you're still on the outside looking in when it comes to getting a job.

No actually I have never applied for a job.

What am I doing here again?

HeroPsycho

I had MCSE before I got my first permanent IT job.

I did volunteer work for church's. I did side consulting work. I leveraged contacts to get internships to get experience.

And I would never have gotten my first IT job without my MCSE. Absolutely no question about it.

I gotta agree that the people who are claiming you can't get a job with CCNA alone and no experience are probably right, but they often act as if they can't get experience. Start thinking how you can get experience. It's easier than you think.

And one last thing: CCNA didn't hurt anyone who had that and no experience. The reason they didn't land the job is they didn't have experience, not because they had CCNA and no experience. Imagine how the interview would have went if the candidate didn't even have CCNA.

Interviewee: "I think I'd be a good fit for this position."
Interviewer: "HOW?!"

undomiel

HeroPsycho wrote:

Interviewee: "I think I'd be a good fit for this position."
Interviewer: "HOW?!"

I wish more interviewers would ask that question. It would give someone with little to no certs and little to no experience a great chance to defend their position and overcome their obstacles.

dynamik

undomiel wrote:

HeroPsycho wrote:

Interviewee: "I think I'd be a good fit for this position."
Interviewer: "HOW?!"

I wish more interviewers would ask that question. It would give someone with little to no certs and little to no experience a great chance to defend their position and overcome their obstacles.

I forget who originally said this (sorry), but when asked if you have any questions at the end of the interview, ask, "What are your concerns about hiring me?" I thought that seemed liked solid advice because it will show that you're serious about the position and give you a chance to address their uncertainties.

undomiel

I actually tried that one out on my last series of interviews on half of the people. They seemed to really like the question. One didn't really give me an answer as she just went over the requirements again, so I don't think she actually had any barriers to hiring, while the other guy went into my spotty work history. I didn't take the best advantage of the opportunity as I could have (I hadn't prepared myself for that particular type of question and it is a pretty hard one to answer though I am prepared now when it comes up again) but it is definitely an awesome question and I'm behind it 100%. It really gets an employer to open up.

aueddonline

Thanks for the advice guys

So maybe the best thing to do would be to finish up the BSCI as I’m nearly there and then start an entry level Linux cert to round me out and carry on looking for work/experience. I've got some Linux+ CBT and enough RAM to load up some distributions on VM

I use Microsoft at home and i have set up a couple things on 2003 server like users, groups, print servers, file servers, I know there is a lot more to it but there's a bit of Microsoft in all of us so i'm happy to leave it at that.

HeroPsycho

undomiel wrote:

HeroPsycho wrote:

Interviewee: "I think I'd be a good fit for this position."
Interviewer: "HOW?!"

I wish more interviewers would ask that question. It would give someone with little to no certs and little to no experience a great chance to defend their position and overcome their obstacles.

Yeah, it would be nice, but just to be clear, if someone walked in with no experience and no certs, it would be a short interview if there even was one.

nel

I agree with alot of the posts previously mentioned but if you do want to go the cisco route as your specialisation then there is no harm in getting your ccnp...you could simply not mention it to the entry level positions you are applying for...same goes with over higher level certs. but what you do have to remember is a cert alone without experiance in that area will most probably not land you a job there.

snadam

Crunchyhippo wrote:

Mishra wrote:

Look for jobs at a NOC. They love CCNAs and it's entry level.

Have you actually applied in the job market? Yeah, employers like CCNAs - only experienced need apply.

With no experience in the IT field, it probably doesn't matter how many certs you have or whether it's a CCNA or a CCNP; you're still on the outside looking in when it comes to getting a job.

dude, seriously, I think you need to calm down, and reassess!

I KNOW we have had this discussion before. You are having a difficult time finding a job, yes we all know that by now. I remember you putting a thread up and a lot of people (including myself) have given you some advice on what to do. Every time I job search, I find ample entry level jobs. CCNA or not, they are there for the taking. They are mainly help desk, but so what? Its a job. You can work your way up, man. My buddy with absolutely no certs, and a degree in web design is slowly working his way up the corporate ladder at a huge company. It boggles my mind sometimes, but im happy for him as he is a hard worker and companies LOVE to promote within.

also, it wouldn't hurt to pad your resume with an MCP, and maybe even a Linux+ cert to make yourself look even more diverse.

I specifically remember telling you if you have a hard time finding jobs in your state (Florida), then MOVE! You have to do whats best for you. If I had to move to another state for the benefit of my family, I would. Another member on the board moved from FL to Los Angeles not too long ago, and he landed a job he seems to like.


okay now thats all said and done, stop bitchin' and start doin' And please stop the sabotage's of other peoples threads. Its the third one in a week.

I guess this advice (minus the last few lines) can also be directed at the OP. Good luck to the both of you.

shednik

snadam wrote:

dude, seriously, I think you need to calm down, and reassess!

I KNOW we have had this discussion before. You are having a difficult time finding a job, yes we all know that by now. I remember you putting a thread up and a lot of people (including myself) have given you some advice on what to do. Every time I job search, I find ample entry level jobs. CCNA or not, they are there for the taking. They are mainly help desk, but so what? Its a job. You can work your way up, man. My buddy with absolutely no certs, and a degree in web design is slowly working his way up the corporate ladder at a huge company. It boggles my mind sometimes, but im happy for him as he is a hard worker and companies LOVE to promote within.

also, it wouldn't hurt to pad your resume with an MCP, and maybe even a Linux+ cert to make yourself look even more diverse.

I specifically remember telling you if you have a hard time finding jobs in your state (Florida), then MOVE! You have to do whats best for you. If I had to move to another state for the benefit of my family, I would. Another member on the board moved from FL to Los Angeles not too long ago, and he landed a job he seems to like.


okay now thats all said and done, stop bitchin' and start doin' And please stop the sabotage's of other peoples threads. Its the third one in a week.

I guess this advice (minus the last few lines) can also be directed at the OP. Good luck to the both of you.

+1

pLuhhmm

ummm do you have a GED or HS diploma?? since you dropped out or w/e?

Main Event

Crunchyhippo wrote:

Mishra wrote:

Look for jobs at a NOC. They love CCNAs and it's entry level.

Have you actually applied in the job market? Yeah, employers like CCNAs - only experienced need apply.

With no experience in the IT field, it probably doesn't matter how many certs you have or whether it's a CCNA or a CCNP; you're still on the outside looking in when it comes to getting a job.

Yea, I agree and I'm 33 years old.

I've officially given up on the I.T dream and moving onto something else, gonna try my luck at another field of work. Heading back to school to become a Biomedical Equipment Tech and see where that takes me.

I like computers but I don't like the crap that revolves around the I.T field, no experience = no job but no one will give you experience until you get a job.

So I will officially stop trying to get a "I.T job", I will find some mediocre work to do until graduation and hope and pray that this new field will pay off for me more than Technology did.

Hopefully the BS in this field will go away some day and it's not as difficult to find work as it currently is. The skillset from when I went to college as opposed to a kid going today is totally different. I will have to go back and get another degree with more updated skills to compete with him.

They need to get rid of the 4 year tech degree and make it a mandatory 2 year Vocational Tech program with certs and get it over with.

It's over this time around, I'm quitting for good, this isn't for me. I don't want to be 40 years old and out of work wondering if I can get hired.

HeroPsycho

Common sense, people, please!

Everyone who has a job in IT had to get a first job in IT. If it's that difficult to get a first job in IT, then no one would be working in IT.

I understand it's difficult, but it's not impossible. Even in the soft economy, IT jobs are expected to have continued *growth* of 5%. There are jobs out there. Maybe they're not in your geographic area so you need to move (I had to move for my first and second jobs), or maybe you need to get creative to get some real world experience before you get that first IT job, but it's undeniable that the industry is growing, so new people into the field are needed.

networker050184

It's all about expectations. You have to start at the bottom and if you are not willing to do that, any field is going to be a disappointment for you.

Like Hero said everyone who works in IT found that first job somehow. You need to just keep at it if you want to succeed.

undomiel

Main Event wrote:

no experience = no job but no one will give you experience until you get a job.

Which is pretty much the same thing in every other field as well unless you're thinking food services. Just because they ask for experience doesn't mean that they won't be considering someone without experience for that entry level help desk job. Apply anyways. A+ certification will get you in the door and if you have a history of work experience outside of IT it will make you look like less of a gamble to the employer.

shednik

Main Event wrote:

Yea, I agree and I'm 33 years old.

I've officially given up on the I.T dream and moving onto something else, gonna try my luck at another field of work. Heading back to school to become a Biomedical Equipment Tech and see where that takes me.

I like computers but I don't like the crap that revolves around the I.T field, no experience = no job but no one will give you experience until you get a job.

So I will officially stop trying to get a "I.T job", I will find some mediocre work to do until graduation and hope and pray that this new field will pay off for me more than Technology did.

Hopefully the BS in this field will go away some day and it's not as difficult to find work as it currently is. The skillset from when I went to college as opposed to a kid going today is totally different. I will have to go back and get another degree with more updated skills to compete with him.

They need to get rid of the 4 year tech degree and make it a mandatory 2 year Vocational Tech program with certs and get it over with.

It's over this time around, I'm quitting for good, this isn't for me. I don't want to be 40 years old and out of work wondering if I can get hired.

Didn't you give up a long time ago? what is up with all these negative posts recently, I remember reading this post of yours http://techexams.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=11073. Why have you continued to try you didn't want anyone's advice there. Expectations are way to high you start out at the bottom in any field and have to work your way up. Depending on how dedicated you are and with some luck as well will determine how fats the growth is. It's not easy to move up in the beginning and if it were everyone would do it. I just don't understand why there has been so much negativity on this board towards jobs recently. It took me a year of working a part time job and picking up my N+ and A+ to land my first full time gig. sometimes you need to swallow your pride and take a low level job to start out.

undomiel

I wouldn't say that there has been a lot of negativity, it just seems more like there are a couple of very vocal people who are negative. They're just trying to drown out everyone else's positive experiences and hard work.

shednik

Main Event wrote:

They need to get rid of the 4 year tech degree and make it a mandatory 2 year Vocational Tech program with certs and get it over with.

It's over this time around, I'm quitting for good, this isn't for me. I don't want to be 40 years old and out of work wondering if I can get hired.

I just wanted to add there is nothing wrong with a 4 year tech degree I know MANY including myself who has a BS in IT, CS, IS, CEE, or the list goes on of types and they have jobs. So blaming your degree isn't going to get you anywhere and saying it should only be a 2 yr one makes no sense to me at all. The fact is simple your expectations were too high, I started in a call center taking 40-50 calls a day and let me tell you it sucked. Now nearly 3 years later after a lot of hard work I help maintain a 170 site north american network that connects into many other regions in the world. Its all about hard work and dedication in this field, you can't just expect anything to be given to you. Once you learn that you realize how much work is involved and when you succeed it makes it all the more worth it.

dynamik

Um. What I said here, I guess.

Why does everyone assume that everyone in IT just got handed great jobs? My first job was abysmal and had nothing to do with IT. I did a good job of taking on some extra responsibilities and using that experience to get this job. It's IT work, but I don't like it either here. Neither job paid well, in fact, I haven't gotten a raise since I started here 2.5 years ago. I've been working jobs I don't like for nearly six. I've gained valuable experience and gotten my MCSE:S and various others (and more on the way ). I had five years of A+/Network+ level experience before that. I finally feel like I'm ready (probably over prepared) for a real IT job. I'm not ripping on your personally. If it's not for you, go do something you like. That's fine. Just quit spreading the FUD around here.

Edit: I just realized that link shednik posted is over four years old. Main Event, I think it's time to let go and move on

Thanks for that link. It's always a treat to get to read some massive posts by Keatron.

BeaverC32

Misery loves company, I guess