Anyone following the CertGuard/CCIE Fiasco

dynamikdynamik Banned Posts: 12,314 ■■■■■■■■□□
This has been going on over the last couple of weeks, but it was the first I've seen it:

http://cciepursuit.wordpress.com/2008/06/13/certguard-certification-integrity/

http://cciepursuit.wordpress.com/2008/06/17/network-world-retracts-article-accusing-ethan-banks-of-cheating/

http://www.networkworld.com/community/node/28444 (I agree with the comments; that definitely wasn't an adequate apology)

I definitely lost a lot of respect for CertGuard there.

Comments

  • eMeSeMeS Member Posts: 1,875
    This is interesting stuff.

    I understand that CertGuard offers valuable services that no one else (to my knowledge) currently provides. Those services include the ability to determine if a web site is hawking copyrighted study materials, and the ability for site owners to filter ads for questionable study material providers.

    However, I have some problems with many of the things similar to this event that I've read/seen/heard over the years. I remember one example very similar to this that was an argument between an MCT and one or more of the people from CertGuard. It gave me a very "we're superior, we'll decide what's valid study materials" kind of vibe from the CertGuard people. Much of what I've seen has more of the appearance of bullying rather than a focus on facts.

    I have concerns with things like this (and not only CertGuard):

    http://www.certguard.com/trusted.asp

    It reminds me of the story of the first firemen. In ancient Rome, the first firemen were nothing more than gangs that would go around starting fires. Once they started a fire, they would offer to the property owner their services for extinguishing the fire. If the property owner chose to pay their fee, they would put out the fire and the property would be saved; otherwise they would let it burn to the ground. Apochryphal, yes, but illustrative....

    I'm in no way implying that this is what CertGuard does. I am stating a general risk that exists with many types of businesses.

    It seems to me that if I wanted to get in the business of developing study materials, I have an added cost of having to "prove" that my study materials are valid. I'm not sure to what extent people look for this seal on vendor sites, but at this point I'm really just discussing intent.

    Some concerns/questions that I have:

    If I am a study material vendor, what is the option if I choose to not purchase this certification of my material being original?

    If I am a study material vendor, will CertGuard automatically purchase and review my study material and make a judgment?

    CertGuard claims to have over 600 study material providers in their database...how is it possible that they have purchased and reviewed all of the material from all of the providers and determined that they are all selling ****?

    Does CertGuard have access to the actual questions from all vendors in order to make comparisons? It seems like this would be necessary in order to make a claim either way whether a vendor is selling **** or not?

    Who is watching the watchers? I would prefer to see certification vendors (such as Microsoft and Cisco) offer programs to study material vendors whereby they could submit their materials to independent third-parties (such as accounting firms) for judgment regarding the validity of their materials. The "seal" could then be something from the original vendor that is attested by an independent accounting firm. Many accounting firms do this type of work already in different areas.

    =======

    Back to the original topic. I think the CCIE in question was pretty straightforward about what happened. He even said that the material that he used did not contain questions that appeared on the exam. Thus, is this a case where TK provided original material?

    I'm assuming what happened here is that someone was threatened with a libel suit and the blog post came down. Calling people cheaters in print will tend to do that, particularly when the facts do not support the charge of cheating.

    IMO organized bullying of specific people/witch hunts is something we've seen repeatedly throughout history (McCarthy?) that starts off positive, but through increased power and exposure ruins lives and careers. Ultimately those doing the bullying reap what they sow....

    MS
  • networker050184networker050184 Mod Posts: 11,962 Mod
    I think certgaurd is trying to do the right thing, but they did go a little far with this. Cheating should not be tolerated, but like any other "crime" you should be innocent until proven guilty. I'm sure there will be a law suit coming very soon...
    An expert is a man who has made all the mistakes which can be made.
  • astorrsastorrs Member Posts: 3,139 ■■■■■■□□□□
    Did anyone see the original posting before Network World retracted it? Anyone have a copy/link?
  • cacharocacharo Member Posts: 361
    Still looking for the original, but I did stumble upon this ironic tidbit.
    Treat people as if they were what they ought to be, and you help them become what they are capable of being.
  • GoldmemberGoldmember Member Posts: 277
    Lawsuit?

    Who is suing who?



    I doubt anything happens...

    Did Ethan even pass the CCIE Lab?


    He passed the CCIE Written only???

    What a joke.
    CCNA, A+. MCP(70-270. 70-290), Dell SoftSkills
  • scheistermeisterscheistermeister Member Posts: 748 ■□□□□□□□□□
    Goldmember wrote:
    Lawsuit?

    Who is suing who?



    I doubt anything happens...

    Did Ethan even pass the CCIE Lab?


    He passed the CCIE Written only???

    What a joke.

    I thought I read somewhere in the mess of links that go in huge circles that he passed the lab not long after the written on the first try.
    Give a man fire and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
  • astorrsastorrs Member Posts: 3,139 ■■■■■■□□□□
    Yes he passed the lab the first time.

    Edit: Here is a public apology: http://www.cciecandidate.com/?p=475
  • GoldmemberGoldmember Member Posts: 277
    CertGuard CEO going ballistic on Ethan for what reason?

    Sounds like shameless self promotion at the expense of others careers and integrity??

    CertGuard CEO should be held responsible.
    CCNA, A+. MCP(70-270. 70-290), Dell SoftSkills
  • MishraMishra Member Posts: 2,468 ■■■■□□□□□□
    So this is a battle between Certguard seeing that Ethan said '****' in his blog and making a big deal about it but his blog is so thorough and helpful that no one blames him for accidentally using ****?
    My blog http://www.calegp.com

    You may learn something!
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