Opinions about Device Transfer Rates

eMeSeMeS Member Posts: 1,875
Hi everyone,

If you saw a device advertised as the following:

Transfer Rates
Ethernet 10/100/1000 Mb/s capable

In the absence of other information, what would you expect?

What if you read the following:

"It includes a 1000/100/10-compatible Ethernet connection for fast performance"

My expectation was that the speed of transferring information to/from the device was limited by the speed of my network.

This is a "NAS" that I bought a while back that I am very displeased with in terms of performance. The actual transfer rate (as stated by the vendor in an email to me) is 3-5 mb/s, which is indicated nowhere in the advertisement, etc for this product. I'm too lazy to look right now, but isn't even USB 1.0 faster than 3-5 mb/s?

The vendor will remain unnamed for the time being. I am in the midst of a huge battle with their customer support in an attempt to get a full refund (too late to return it to Fry's).

MS

Comments

  • astorrsastorrs Member Posts: 3,139 ■■■■■■□□□□
    What speed is your LAN and the NIC in your PC?

    "Technically" all they said is the NIC on the device is compatible with 10,100 or 1GB network speeds - the actual transfer rate is limited to the 3-5MB/sec (watch your big "B's" vs little "b's") so a 100Mb network is sufficient.

    These kinds of marketing tactics are used all the time. They're pretty underhanded if you ask me.
  • eMeSeMeS Member Posts: 1,875
    astorrs wrote:
    What speed is your LAN and the NIC in your PC?

    "Technically" all they said is the NIC on the device is compatible with 10,100 or 1GB network speeds - the actual transfer rate is limited to the 3-5MB/sec (watch your big "B's" vs little "b's") so a 100Mb network is sufficient.

    These kinds of marketing tactics are used all the time. They're pretty underhanded if you ask me.

    After updating my router a while back, I'm 100% gigabit.

    Here's one of their responses to me:

    "Our box/page does not say that the drive runs at Gigabit speeds. It says that it's compatible with Gigabit networks. It actually runs at about 3-5 MB's per second"

    I disagree with the first part. Under the "transfer rate" section they say "capable" (as opposed to compatible). I agree with the 2nd part...this thing operates at 3-5 MB's per second or slower! However, nowhere on the device or in the advertisement is this mentioned....

    I would agree if they said "compatible" that the marketing tactic was underhanded, but that I should be left holding the bag because in that case I got exactly what I paid for. The device is "compatible" with 10/100/1000 networks. However, the use of the term "capable" indicates to me that the limiting factor is my network speed...

    MS
  • networker050184networker050184 Mod Posts: 11,962 Mod
    I agree "capable" should mean exactly that. Good luck getting your money back from anyone these days though...
    An expert is a man who has made all the mistakes which can be made.
  • tierstentiersten Member Posts: 4,505
    eMeS wrote:
    I disagree with the first part. Under the "transfer rate" section they say "capable" (as opposed to compatible). I agree with the 2nd part...this thing operates at 3-5 MB's per second or slower! However, nowhere on the device or in the advertisement is this mentioned....
    That is fairly standard for all cheap NAS devices. The ones with 1000 ethernet support usually have jumbo frame support as well which you won't get on 10/100.
    eMeS wrote:
    I would agree if they said "compatible" that the marketing tactic was underhanded, but that I should be left holding the bag because in that case I got exactly what I paid for. The device is "compatible" with 10/100/1000 networks.

    However, the use of the term "capable" indicates to me that the limiting factor is my network speed...
    Not really. As I said above there is a difference between something running at 100mbps on a 100baseT network and something running at 100mbps on a 1000baseT network.

    HDs are advertised with the speed of their interface as well usually but you're not going to get 300MB/s out of your SATA-II drive.
    eMeS wrote:
    but isn't even USB 1.0 faster than 3-5 mb/s?
    I'm assuming they said megabytes and not megabits. USB 1 is 12mbps and once you've factored in overhead then you're looking at less than 1MB/s.
  • eMeSeMeS Member Posts: 1,875
    tiersten wrote:
    HDs are advertised with the speed of their interface as well usually but you're not going to get 300MB/s out of your SATA-II drive.

    Agreed, and I only notice about this particular device because it is so incredibly slow....For example, we have two desktops each with 300MB/s SATA-II drives....I can move large files between these two computers across the network very quickly, however, I'm certain it's not close to 300 MB/s.

    My point is, if this NAS were offering something closer to even it's lowest advertised transfer rate, I might not even notice....

    Why even bother putting a network adapter in this thing capable of speeds greater than 10?

    Also, I might have said this on here before, but someone please kick me in the groin the next time I say I am buying an HD video camera or an off the shelf "NAS".

    MS
  • tierstentiersten Member Posts: 4,505
    eMeS wrote:
    My point is, if this NAS were offering something closer to even it's lowest advertised transfer rate, I might not even notice....

    Why even bother putting a network adapter in this thing capable of speeds greater than 10?
    It is greater than 10Base-T. Ethernet is measured in megabits whilst the transfer rates you're seeing are measured in megabytes.

    The reason why its so slow is that the CPU in these devices is usually quite slow. If you've got RAID5 enabled as well then that'll eat into available CPU. If your devices and switch support it then enable jumbo frames. It should improve your transfer rate since the CPU isn't dealing with as many interrupts.
  • eMeSeMeS Member Posts: 1,875
    This device is much simpler than that.

    It's a single drive device, so no RAID 5. There is a mirroring option in the software that it includes, but IMO that's a bit pointless since that would only give me RAID 0.

    I don't see any options for jumbo frames, and it doesn't appear in the doc.

    I'm assuming that they meant "bytes" in their reply to me, but at this point that is unclear. This thing is unbelievably slow. I swear it seems much slower than transferring data from my pc to an old USB 1.0 storage device I had many years ago....

    MS
  • tierstentiersten Member Posts: 4,505
    eMeS wrote:
    This device is much simpler than that.

    It's a single drive device, so no RAID 5. There is a mirroring option in the software that it includes, but IMO that's a bit pointless since that would only give me RAID 0.

    I don't see any options for jumbo frames, and it doesn't appear in the doc.

    I'm assuming that they meant "bytes" in their reply to me, but at this point that is unclear. This thing is unbelievably slow. I swear it seems much slower than transferring data from my pc to an old USB 1.0 storage device I had many years ago....

    MS
    Yeah. That NAS is badly designed or underpowered if so.

    I had a Buffalo Terastation and that would also max out around 5MB/s. In the end I gave up trying to make it go any faster and just used it to store infrequently accessed files. I replaced it recently with a proper server.
  • dynamikdynamik Banned Posts: 12,314 ■■■■■■■■□□
    MS, do you have an old machine laying around? Just put FreeNAS or OpenFiler on it, and you're set. You don't need to know linux. It's just next > next > next > finish to get either installed.
  • eMeSeMeS Member Posts: 1,875
    Actually I have a new machine laying around that is in the process of becoming my NAS....I'm going to take a chance on Windows Home Server...And guess what the pisser here is? Two of the drives that I want to put in it are made by the same company that makes this NAS that is giving me problems....

    My reason for posting this thread is to get opinions about what the vendor means in their advertising, and how others interpret that meaning.

    I think my standpoint is correct, however as a sanity check I wanted to see what others thought.

    I am actively working to get the vendor to refund the full amount that I spent on this thing...which is around $200...really just wanted to see what other thought about primarily the difference between "compatible" and "capable".

    The vendor claims "capability" of transfer rates based on the network speed in their advertising. In emails with them they have claimed that they are only "compatible" with ethernet networks running at 10/100/1000...Anyone can be compatible, "capability" on the other hand, especially when associated with transfer rates and 10/100/1000 network speeds implies a much greater speed than what I'm seeing from this thing.

    I really just want them to refund the money I spent...I really don't want to have to crack this thing open so that I can have a slow 500gb hard disk to stick in my new NAS. In the absence of that or until I get a refund, I can take pleasure in the effect I might be having on their customer service metrics, as well as all of the negative reviews of this product that I've posted everywhere possible.

    I wish I had read reviews of this thing before I bought it. I was at the stupid Fry's and the price looked good so I jumped. It was only later that I started researching why the thing was so slow that I found countless negative reviews all indicating basically the same thing I am saying here. Unfortunately it was past the window where I could return it for a full refund...

    MS
  • eMeSeMeS Member Posts: 1,875
    After a never-ending battle of words via email and over the phone that culminated with a threat that I would report their advertising practices to federal and state authorities, I was finally escalated to a point in the company that could take action...

    Disk vendor has stated:

    "I understand your frustration, however being this was not purchased from us, we are unable to refund you for this product. I can send you a different drive for customer satisfaction and upgrade you to a larger capacity at no charge to you, however I cannot refund you. Please let me know and I will send you replacement drive."

    I ok with this option...I can always use additional storage.

    I gave them two choices...one in the 1 TB range for a desktop, and the 2nd in the 320GB/7200 rpm range for a laptop.

    The 1 TB disk will go into my Windows Home Server should they send me that. If it's the 320GB it will either go on eBay or in my laptop...I haven't decided.

    MS
  • astorrsastorrs Member Posts: 3,139 ■■■■■■□□□□
    Nicely done. Good job not taking no for an answer. :)

    What a pain though...
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