Work experience and MCSE

banderas1978

Hello,
I need your advice, please.

I am working towards MCSA and I have passed the 270 and 290 utnil now. I am about to take the 291 and then the "Exchange". Then I want to start making experience as this is the most impiortant of all. While gaining work experience I would be working towards MCSE. I wonder if (being MCSA) I would have to start as a Desktop Support and then grow up or you suggest to skip this position and applay for a different one. I heard that Desktop Technician is not a position I would benefit that much from (having in mind my plan for MCSE).

What position, you think, would be appriopriate for me?
And also, is it true that I do not need the 70-293 exam to be an MCSA and can take the Exchange" exam instead?
Thank you.

Banderas

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nel

firstly, you dont need 293 for mcsa. check the requirements here:

http://www.microsoft.com/learning/mcp/mcsa/windows2003/default.mspx

Secondly, you'll find just because your mcsa you wont def get a sys admin job as the title suggests you'll find sys admin jobs mainly ask for mcse.

Thirdly, "I heard that Desktop Technician is not a position I would benefit that much from (having in mind my plan for MCSE). " well what do you do now? if you dont work in IT then that position will be a good step and one you will probably have to make at some point to work your way up to a sys admin. You dont become a sys admin overnight, it takes experiance + qualifications + luck to land a job like that.

1MeanAdmin

You don't need 293, but keep this in mind: without 293 and 294, you'll have to do A LOT of studying when you do 284.

tallicaman99

nel wrote:

You dont become a sys admin overnight, it takes experiance + qualifications + luck to land a job like that.

I'd agree with that. I'm in the same boat as the poster & currently work as a Desktop Tech. I've been there for 3+ years though.

banderas1978

nel wrote:

Thirdly, "I heard that Desktop Technician is not a position I would benefit that much from (having in mind my plan for MCSE). " well what do you do now? if you dont work in IT then that position will be a good step and one you will probably have to make at some point to work your way up to a sys admin. You dont become a sys admin overnight, it takes experiance + qualifications + luck to land a job like that.

Why do people keep saying that I would not learn from the Desktop job? It is about answering phone and telling people where to click, they say. Is it true?
If there is a hierarchy in IT positions and, say, the Desktop Support is just at the first level so what position would be next, I mean the 2nd level?
Thank you.
Banderas

nel

Hi banderas,

From my experiance, i have found the following (for the route you are talking about):

1st level - basically answering calls/logging calls. Passing calls which require more analysis to the next level. Our place lets the L1 unlock accounts and do other basics like that.

2nd level - Hands on desktop support. things like hardware/software support and installs, account management. Printer issues - jams, installs etc, Email problems/administration. Things of this nature in a more hands on role. At our place we also do alot of support for in house apps specific to our industry (newspaper software).

3rd level - server support/engineering/administration

Like i said, thats the way ive seen things. obviously it may vary for other area's of IT.

You can learn alot of things from a desktop support position and if your not in IT its a good way to start out but not for the long term!

Do you have an IT job? also where in the UK are you based?

blargoe

I heard that Desktop Technician is not a position I would benefit that much from (having in mind my plan for MCSE).

Whoever told you that doesn't know what they are talking about.

Hands on experience working with all corners of the Windows OS is required before you really get into sysadmin level work, and you do that by working on the desktop OS. You have to prove yourself troubleshooting less impactful areas before someone is going to turn you loose on the server and network equipment. You need to have a solid understanding of TCP/IP networking on the client side and MS specific concepts in practice before you're ready to support the infrastructure that keeps those client systems running.

So if you're never worked IT before, desktop support IS a great place to start. You may have to start at tier 1 helpdesk/callcenter level work first to get in the door. I would advise you not to wait around any longer, look for work NOW, so when you go in for that Sr. Desktop support or Jr. Sysadmin interview in a couple of years, you'll have a couple years of experience. Don't use "just one more test" or "just one more cert" as an excuse not to look for something IT related now. Either way you're not going to find something better than call center or jr. desktop support due to lack of experience.

Good luck!

My $.02

blargoe

vsmith3rd

I see nothing wrong with starting at the first level. Less than 2 years for me, and I made the jump to level 2 work, with a good deal of server admin opportunities. I'm also tirelessly lobbying for more opportunities to partner with the level 3 guys on projects, so I can learn more. If you work it right, starting from the ground up can work well, with time, effort, motivation and soft skills.

Believe it or not, soft skill development is the most underrated aspect of the IT world. Developing great (not good, GREAT) soft skills really gets you noticed by management, and not just IT management. Get enough senior level managers and veeps singing your praises, and it goes a long way. Of course, you will need good technical skills as a foundation. Soft skills also can be good for networking opportunities (social networking, of course), and these are all important if you want to stand out, be noticed and advance.

jbaello

If you understand the front end, you won't be so confused in the back end...

If you nail a sr. desktop position you will also assume around 20 % jr. lvl sys administrative task.

Slowhand

Nothing is set in stone. Getting a helpdesk position will give you whatever experience that particular job offers. In some cases, it's a whole lot of sysadmin-like work, other times it's just resetting passwords and installing printers. The same can be said for systems/network administrator positions: in some companies, it's an exciting gig with lots of new things to learn and big projects to do. In others, it's checking backups and rebooting servers every once in a while.

The best thing you can do, find a job that sounds good to you. The title isn't as important when you're first starting out, so much as the work you do. In time, you'll have an opportunity to either move up in the company you're working for, or find something higher on the totem-pole somewhere else. The point is, you have to start somewhere; and worrying too much about job-titles and not enough about what knowledge and experience you can gain isn't going to do anything but keep you from finding what you want. (After all, nothing is guaranteed, and part of going out into the working world and becoming successful is taking a few risks here and there.)

Good luck on your job search, as well as your MCSE journey. Having the MCSA will help you find an entry-level position. Working for a year or two while you're working on nailing down Exchange and the MCSE will definitely help in moving you up to jr. sysadmin or even full sysadmin.

texasit

A mcsa doesn't automatically get you a system admin job.A desktop support job is great experience if you all you have is book knowledge.Helpdesk is usually level one, desktop support level 2 and level 3 server support.I have been doing desktop support and some system admin work for 5 years now it is helping ith my MCSE path.So don't pass up a desktop support job if you can get one it will give you more exp and it could also turn into a system admin job.

famosbrown

You have to have confidence and take the time to learn the material as you go along through the certification process. I worked as a Desktop Support Manager for less than a year before getting my Systems Administrator job. I only got the Manager job due to my degree and other leadership things from college and military listed on resume. I could not possibly get any Sys. Admin experience. Didn't touch any servers, never touched ADUC, and was strictly restricted to workstation support as the title states...Tier 2.

I was working on my MCSA suring this time and began interviewing for a Systems Administrator jobs. My MCSA and degree got me the interview, and I got myself the job through the interview. There was three interviews and each interview were hands on tests, situational questions, etc. and I did well. No work experience, but my employer said that they were willing to give me a chance since I did better in the interview than others with more and higher level certifications that couldn't perform or answer most of the interview tasks and questions. I was cheap, wanted to prove that the employer didn't make the wrong choice, and I was still striving to learn more. In this process, the more I learned, the more value I brought the organization at the same price. Win Win for both.

I have said it, and will say it again....it takes someone to give you a chance to get experience...we aren't born with it. Even if someone allows you to volunteer and work for free, they are giving you a chance and risking their I.T. infrastructure for an "inexperienced" person. Just really grasp the material practice, and never give up...keep interviewing. Someone will give you an opportunity to gain that experience...just like someone gave the person sitting across that interview table a chance.

banderas1978

Thank you so much for your very useful suggestions!

banderas1978

Hello,
one more question if you don't mind.

I would like to get the MCSA title first and start making experience.

I have done the 270, 290, 291 so far. What the next step would be for me having in mind that I will work towards MCSE later on?

Should I do the Exchange now?
As far as I know tthe 293 does not count towards the MCSA, is it true?

Regards

Banderas

meadIT

The 293 does not count towards the MCSA since it's a core part of the MCSE. My suggestion would be to do an elective that would work for both MCSA and MCSE such as Exchange or Security+.

gojericho0

Also try to get in with a small to medium company. I find that you get a more valuable experience and have an easier time branching out to the direction you want. Large companies will normally stick you on a call center or a teir 1 support when you might get pigeon holed and find a hard time getting out of

banderas1978

Thank you, guys.
What if I qwanted to stop at MCSA only. Which exam would you suggest that I do?

Regards

Banderas

dynamik

I wouldn't really even consider that an option. You're going to miss out on very important material in 293 and 294, and the MCSA isn't nearly as prestigious as the MCSE.

Slowhand

In short: if you're gunning for a better job, you'll need the reputation that the MCSE carries with it. If you want to keep that job, you'll need the additional knowledge you'll gain from the 70-293, 70-294, and design exams.

banderas1978

I see your point, guys. Thanks.

banderas1978

Hi guys,
before taking 236, would you suggest that I do 294 and 297?