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Why be a bull at a gate and the benefits of a PDP ?
Kaminsky
Member Posts: 1,235
I have been in IT support for very large user bases for just over 15 years now and I have gone from smallish govt/nhs to corporate organisations in the process. I thought I would do a little post where I might share some of the insights from a newbie trying to come in the door point of view.
I look at most "newbie" (excuse the descriptive) posts and they all seem to me to be overlooking those vital back doors and always presume the best way to be a networking guy or a server guy is to apply directly for any networking/server job they see ( bull at a gate ) and just get more and more despondant when they don't even get a letters back. This really isn't the way it works in reality. Yes it may work (usually the clues to these opportnities can be given in the low salary offered in the job ad - nobody with experience would even look at them) but 7 times out of 10 it will not. It's nothing to do with you personally not being worth a call back so you really shouldn't take it personally. It's just that this is not the way the profession works. Also, there a lot of govt/nhs type roles where they MUST post the job externaly even though, 9 times out of 10, they already have an internal person earmarked for the job ! [ I have seen really, really good external candidates not get the job and the internal guy who was covering get even though he was only 25% of the external candidate in experience and qualification - I have seen this several times with my own eyes so don't get despondant in these types of govt/nhs/council failures ]
The majority of the senior positions come from internal promotion / transfers.... or the relevent experience gained somewhere else through internal promotion / transfers. I know that sounds pretty obvious but a lot of people think that means you must have started off in the IT dept in the first place. That is simply not the case and is the point I want to make to you.
The better ones have usually come from a completely different internal department and bring that extra slice of knowledge and experience with them. Hell, my old server manager at one job I was in was frying chips in the canteen (with no previous IT experience) two years before I got there. People above him left and before you knew it, he was the most senior. He was very good at being a server admin and learnt Novell so well that Novell would sub contract small projects to him privately. That doesn't hide the fact that he was cooking chips in that organisation two years before that.
Next question your asking ( I know your assuming this is a one off ) is how can this possibly happen? Answer: HR Personal Development Plans and the bigger the company, the further you can reach out from where you start.
HR/Personnel have a duty to offer their employees the opportunity for improvement and in your regular line manager interviews you get asked about where you would like to develop yourself. This section of the appraisal is called your PDP and whatever you put in here (you say what goes in here), they have a duty to offer training/advice on how to reach your goals during work hours ( They can't GIVE you those new jobs in that area but only show you what you would need to do to be able to apply for a job in that area within that organisation) .... again the bigger the company the better you are as there will obviously be more opportunities available. [ Especially in the current climate where a lot of companies are freezing external recruitment and only allowing internal applications to fill roles ]
Those senior IT people you see commanding the really nice salaries were not filled by people applying for those jobs directly. Those big company senior job positions are typically from internal promotion ( remember my frying chips scenario here ) and the ones you do see on the job boards these days are either contract ( with experience and an awfull lot of waffle from your contractor agent {be nice to these people and they will be nice to you} ) or a very long experience track record to get. How do you get the very long experience track ? internal transfers .... and remember.... the bigger the company the further you can grow !
I just posted this as I feel that a lot of our profession's future IT people are really missing a trick when trying to get their foot in the door.
In a large IT company, once you have your foot in the door ... you're made as long as you look for the best time to move. I now work for one of the top 3 IT companies in the world and after two years I have finally got a networking job. This has now got me into the right ball park and from here I can grow into the very big leagues in networking. As it is such a huge company, the networking dept is about 200-300 strong so there is lots of room for climbing and they consider things like CCNA the basics ( to be left to your own networking devices is typically requiring at least a CCNP - the REAL basic qualification for any networking person) and it is their duty to help me reach that and higher. As I am already an employee of the company, the types of very seriously experienced and qualified people giving me open and friendly advice at the coffe machine is incredible - as one multiple cisco qualied pro said to me about me getting the ccna done "yeah - it's just basic networking general knowledge - just get it out of the way and then you can start learning properly" ) .... The bigger the company the better remember.
Appologies for the long post but don't get despondant by constantly being a bull at a gate (banging out CVs and getting little or no response) .... box clever and get your foot in the bigger doors and once your inside, then work your magic.
Kam.
PS to the admins: Appologies for the extensive edits. I am having a fat finger night !
I look at most "newbie" (excuse the descriptive) posts and they all seem to me to be overlooking those vital back doors and always presume the best way to be a networking guy or a server guy is to apply directly for any networking/server job they see ( bull at a gate ) and just get more and more despondant when they don't even get a letters back. This really isn't the way it works in reality. Yes it may work (usually the clues to these opportnities can be given in the low salary offered in the job ad - nobody with experience would even look at them) but 7 times out of 10 it will not. It's nothing to do with you personally not being worth a call back so you really shouldn't take it personally. It's just that this is not the way the profession works. Also, there a lot of govt/nhs type roles where they MUST post the job externaly even though, 9 times out of 10, they already have an internal person earmarked for the job ! [ I have seen really, really good external candidates not get the job and the internal guy who was covering get even though he was only 25% of the external candidate in experience and qualification - I have seen this several times with my own eyes so don't get despondant in these types of govt/nhs/council failures ]
The majority of the senior positions come from internal promotion / transfers.... or the relevent experience gained somewhere else through internal promotion / transfers. I know that sounds pretty obvious but a lot of people think that means you must have started off in the IT dept in the first place. That is simply not the case and is the point I want to make to you.
The better ones have usually come from a completely different internal department and bring that extra slice of knowledge and experience with them. Hell, my old server manager at one job I was in was frying chips in the canteen (with no previous IT experience) two years before I got there. People above him left and before you knew it, he was the most senior. He was very good at being a server admin and learnt Novell so well that Novell would sub contract small projects to him privately. That doesn't hide the fact that he was cooking chips in that organisation two years before that.
Next question your asking ( I know your assuming this is a one off ) is how can this possibly happen? Answer: HR Personal Development Plans and the bigger the company, the further you can reach out from where you start.
HR/Personnel have a duty to offer their employees the opportunity for improvement and in your regular line manager interviews you get asked about where you would like to develop yourself. This section of the appraisal is called your PDP and whatever you put in here (you say what goes in here), they have a duty to offer training/advice on how to reach your goals during work hours ( They can't GIVE you those new jobs in that area but only show you what you would need to do to be able to apply for a job in that area within that organisation) .... again the bigger the company the better you are as there will obviously be more opportunities available. [ Especially in the current climate where a lot of companies are freezing external recruitment and only allowing internal applications to fill roles ]
Those senior IT people you see commanding the really nice salaries were not filled by people applying for those jobs directly. Those big company senior job positions are typically from internal promotion ( remember my frying chips scenario here ) and the ones you do see on the job boards these days are either contract ( with experience and an awfull lot of waffle from your contractor agent {be nice to these people and they will be nice to you} ) or a very long experience track record to get. How do you get the very long experience track ? internal transfers .... and remember.... the bigger the company the further you can grow !
I just posted this as I feel that a lot of our profession's future IT people are really missing a trick when trying to get their foot in the door.
In a large IT company, once you have your foot in the door ... you're made as long as you look for the best time to move. I now work for one of the top 3 IT companies in the world and after two years I have finally got a networking job. This has now got me into the right ball park and from here I can grow into the very big leagues in networking. As it is such a huge company, the networking dept is about 200-300 strong so there is lots of room for climbing and they consider things like CCNA the basics ( to be left to your own networking devices is typically requiring at least a CCNP - the REAL basic qualification for any networking person) and it is their duty to help me reach that and higher. As I am already an employee of the company, the types of very seriously experienced and qualified people giving me open and friendly advice at the coffe machine is incredible - as one multiple cisco qualied pro said to me about me getting the ccna done "yeah - it's just basic networking general knowledge - just get it out of the way and then you can start learning properly" ) .... The bigger the company the better remember.
Appologies for the long post but don't get despondant by constantly being a bull at a gate (banging out CVs and getting little or no response) .... box clever and get your foot in the bigger doors and once your inside, then work your magic.
Kam.
PS to the admins: Appologies for the extensive edits. I am having a fat finger night !
Kam.
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undomiel
Member Posts: 2,818
Reminds me a fair bit about what I've been reading on this site:
http://www.asktheheadhunter.com/index.htm
Lots of good advice out there and lots of good advice in this post as well.Jumping on the IT blogging band wagon -- http://www.jefferyland.com/ -
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MCPWannabe
Member Posts: 194
This is excellent Advice! Thank you for taking the time to make such a great post.I've escaped call centers and so can you! Certification Trail and mean pay job offers for me: A+ == $14, Net+==$16, MCSA==$20-$22, MCAD==$25-$30, MCSD -- $40, MCT(Development), MCITP Business Intelligence, MCPD Enterprise Applications Developer -- $700 a Day