PREPARE YOURSELF... THERE'S A RANT ON THE WAY

mattipler

PREPARE YOURSELF... THERE'S A RANT ON THE WAY.

IT is the most undervalued profession to be a part of in my opinion. The most stressful. The most demanding. One of the most (not the most in this area) demanding in terms of personal sacrifice... how many hours do each of you spend studying each night to stay abreast with industry advances and new certifications? For what? Average national wages. How fast do sectors such as finance develop... people have been using "pretty much" the same methods for hundreds of years. We have to make HUGE personal sacrifices to keep abreast with very little reward, recognition or fiscal improvements. I LOVE working in IT, but if I knew when I was 18, what I know now 10 years later I would have become a plumber or an electrician! Sorry guys... I'm sure that will upset a lot of you but it's just the way I feel.

BeaverC32

@mattipler -- Shall I play a violin?

You consider studying new technologies and staying current a HUGE sacrifice, while I see it as a plus to working in IT. I'm interested in what I work in and consider it a huge perk that IT is constantly changing and things never get stale.

And I have been compensated nicely in my limited time in IT, so I disagree completely that there is little reward.

And let's put things in perspective -- a majority of those working in IT sit within the comfort of their cubicle hacking away at their computers. It's not like this is grueling work that leaves festering sores on our hands and feet or poses a very real threat of life day in and day out. We could have it much worse, so count your blessings and be thankful for what you have because there are many people in the world that can only dream of being as fortunate as we are

And also, what the HELL does this have to do with the 70-294 exam?

bjaxx

mattipler wrote:

PREPARE YOURSELF... THERE'S A RANT ON THE WAY.

IT is the most undervalued profession to be a part of in my opinion. The most stressful. The most demanding. One of the most (not the most in this area) demanding in terms of personal sacrifice... how many hours do each of you spend studying each night to stay abreast with industry advances and new certifications? For what? Average national wages. How fast do sectors such as finance develop... people have been using "pretty much" the same methods for hundreds of years. We have to make HUGE personal sacrifices to keep abreast with very little reward, recognition or fiscal improvements. I LOVE working in IT, but if I knew when I was 18, what I know now 10 years later I would have become a plumber or an electrician! Sorry guys... I'm sure that will upset a lot of you but it's just the way I feel.

Not at all - maybe your working in the "wrong places" - I work in IT not just because I love what we do, but it challenges me every fricking day.

Couldn't imagine doing the groundhogs day gig.


Sounds like your just having a rough week with some of the issues that are going on at your organization. What kills us, makes us stronger my friend!

mattipler

Beaver - If you can play... please feel free!

You've been compensated nicely... that's not what the general opinion of the majority of people within the industry that I speak to on a day to day basis have to say... but all the same, good for you!

If you don't see those 2-3 hours of personal time that you spend each day after work, with your head in a book (as I do) as a personal sacrifice, time I could be spending with my 3 year old daughter, my wife or socialising then no offence, you need to take a look at your life mate. But thanks for your response, I didn't expect everyone to agree with me. Merely putting across my point of view... And also, what the HELL does this have to do with the 70-294 exam? - Read through the full post again.

Bjaxx - I too love the daily challenges, I couldn't agree more. I do LOVE the job as said in the original post... I was merely pointing out I feel that we are taken for granted.

sprkymrk

mattipler wrote:

I LOVE working in IT, but if I knew when I was 18, what I know now 10 years later I would have become a plumber or an electrician! Sorry guys... I'm sure that will upset a lot of you but it's just the way I feel.

I was an electrician from age 19-30. I got tired of the cold winters working outside and hot summers working in factories or attics. Got tired of lugging 75lbs of tools and step ladders up 4 flights of stairs. Got tired of stepping on nails, getting lit up by someone else's poor wiring, working off cheap scaffolds risking my life because the boss wants to save money. Also tired of working in storms, blizzards and floods cause other people need power. Got tired of digging trenches when the frost level was 3 foot down, and tired of being on call - trust me when I say that an "on call" tradesman is worse than being an "on-call" IT guy. The IT guy on call, yeah he gets woke up, might have to remote in via VPN or if he's really unlucky drive to his office. The electrician/plumber/etc on call gets woke up, has to figure out how to get where the customer is (which for me often included the "bad" part of town in the middle of the night), hope to heaven you have all the right tools/material on your truck to fix the problem or else you have to call the warehouse manager, wake him up and have him get the stuff you need from the shop.

Yeah, I like my job in an air conditioned office where I can remote in to fix most issues from home.

BeaverC32

mattipler wrote:

If you don't see those 2-3 hours of personal time that you spend each day after work, with your head in a book (as I do) as a personal sacrifice, time I could be spending with my 3 year old daughter, my wife or socialising then no offence, you need to take a look at your life mate.

Who ever said I spend any time at all after work hours studying? Because I haven't in quite some time (not since I became MCSE). In fact I don't spend much time on the PC at home...I try to get away from it after working on one all day

I am just about always busy at work and utilize any downtime in researching/learning/studying. The community here at TE might be different, but most of my coworkers don't spend that much time studying at home either.

I have worked some crappy jobs growing up, so my opinion of IT is quite favorable as a whole.

mattipler

I wish I was in the same position. I literally give 110% at work (we're slightly understaffed) leaving absolutely no time what-so-ever for studying within work. Further to that, as part of our quarterly appraisals we are set objectives to attain certain qualifications, studying in our own time. My company pays for the study material and the exam but other than that it's all done 'off my own back'. For instance, in my last quarterly appraisal I've been told my target is to have attained my MCTS Vista Config qualification by the end of September. I'm finding it very interesting, that's not to say I don't feel it's a big sacrifice preparing for it.

spacedust

mattipler wrote:

I wish I was in the same position. I literally give 110% at work (we're slightly understaffed) leaving absolutely no time what-so-ever for studying within work. Further to that, as part of our quarterly appraisals we are set objectives to attain certain qualifications, studying in our own time. My company pays for the study material and the exam but other than that it's all done 'off my own back'. For instance, in my last quarterly appraisal I've been told my target is to have attained my MCTS Vista Config qualification by the end of September. I'm finding it very interesting, that's not to say I don't feel it's a big sacrifice preparing for it.

Many jobs in other fields have similar requirements, and even if it's not driven by your work objectives you have to do such things to stay current and continue to earn. It's not fun, but it is the way it is in a modern society with rapid technological advances.

I can sympathize; I'm finishing up my BS in IT and will be rolling right into an MBA program in May. It definitely can impact my life, all the study time, and my husband does occasionally get miffed when I get backed up. But I've become a master at finding my study time in ways that limit the impact on other elements of my personal life. Plus I try to think of it as I once thought of learning cool technology before it was my job; it was a fascinating hobby and I enjoyed myself!

undomiel

Personally I don't really have study time at home. I have play time at home. Whether I'm studying for something or not I'm always fiddling around with some technology or other seeing how to use it, how to improve its use, how to fix it when it breaks, and so forth. To me that's just play time. I really don't spend much time doing study. The study time is going over topics that aren't particularly interesting to me. I'd probably get better exam scores if I did more actual study time, but I feel I learn more just doing play time. I'm not really doing it out of a drive to better my position in IT, though I definitely am looking to get that out of it as well. I do it just because it is fun. It looks like you need to find that fun level again.

Technowiz

No offense but you spend 2-3 hours a day each day after work with your head in a book, and you have been doing this for 10 years, and you are at the CCNA level???

Maybe IT isn't the right career for you. It certainly isn't for everybody. You are still young and have many working years ahead of you. It isn't too late to get into plumbing or electrical work if that is what you wish you had done.

I used to work in the offshore drilling industry as an electronics tech. Worked six months out of the year, made fantastic money, and didn't study nearly as much as I do now. But I still say making a career move into IT is one of the best decisions I've made in my adult life.

UnixGuy

If it's not fun, don't waste your life doing it !

nel

Sounds like you've had a bad week mate. Dont let it get you down.

If your getting sick of studying then take a break! i always do otherwise i get burn out.

IT is a great field to be in. There's so many different area's and topics you can cover and i think its exciting it never seems to stop. Just make sure you can get a good position to support your goals.

callmenobody

IT is the most undervalued profession to be a part of in my opinion. The most stressful. The most demanding. One of the most (not the most in this area) demanding in terms of personal sacrifice

I agree kinda...
IT is under "appreciated" and overlooked to a company as whole if you are not in an Tech based company, not necessarily undervalued and def. not the most undervalued imo (GOOD:cops, firemen,teachers come to mind first) . Try to get approval for a new server or rollout software or make upgrades to an existing infrastructure and you are met with "no", "not right now", its not broken, "the budget", the budget" the budget" ...you get it, thats aggravating. Most IT shops are forced to be reactive instead of proactive.

The Most Stressful...imo no but it can be very stressful, especially during those reactionary time s you tried to avoid by being proactive! and

Personal sacrifice aka choice, decision...for me i agree 100%
I have been doing this for 15 years, im 34 and have count'em 4 kids!...I have put my home, and social life in front of my career. I was able to contract/consult into high paying postions most of my career merely by doing on the job training. I obtained a NT4.0 Server 2000 server and Siebel Certification by 2001. The Bubble busted and I had to find a job and got comfortable when I found a job paying well doing little. Instead of taking advantage I dicked around. I moved on found another gig and then it went belly up. It took me 6 months to find a job! (i didnt stay on top of my game, no school, no study, outdated certs, NO JOB) when i did find a job it was Desktop support position (very humbling after 15yrs in IT) I am paid about what a jr.sys admin gets but no responisbility. So I read more and study more with this new opportunity. Sorry I had to testify for a min.

My point is this, If you want to do this then go hard, get your certs, your experience, your degree SACRIFICE and understand that this is how it is and nothing will change it. If not get out now

I have realized I have tricked off 8-10 years of my career because I didnt sacrifice!....so now at 34. I have to play catch up.
If you are really studying every day for 2 to 3 hrs a day imo you should be much farther than you are.

Oyeah - One last thing, I understand you may just be venting now - but I have friends that have switched from a blue collar position to do this and would never go back. And what we call sacrifice they call CAKE.

just my 2 cents

AND SORRY FOR MY RANT!

Lee H

Hi


Sounds to me like your in the wrong job, the wrong IT job that is

I have been in IT for 6 years now and my first position paid only 10k a year, and I came out of a job that paid 15k in order to start my IT career, now I earn 25-30k a year in my current position and it is still on the rise even though I only have 2 city n guilds and a MCP in XP Pro.

If your under pressure to gain certs then find a new job, dont post on here claiming its the most undervalued profession to be in when infact it is yourself that is being undervalued by your employer and that is why you are required to pursue certs

Do yourself a big favour and find a suitable IT position that has no study strings attached and you might surprise yourself, you can then mix up your free time between your 3 year old daughter and studying at your own comfortable pace


Lee H

jbaello

Study something that you enjoy the most, then you'll find it less of a sacrifice I hated some of the MCSE courses, but find that studying CCNA is more like a hobby playing and breaking routers and switches.

Also I would recommend balancing your life from play/family/work/study, I always try to account my time, and I ensure that I do something productive, remember that knowledge is power (like Royal said), and life comes from knowledge, so your sacrifices will never be left unrewarded.

I remember when I was at my old job I didn't had to study at all, I just fix things as they come and that's it, then I told myself I will improve my knowledge, perhaps your current knowledge is enough for your job, and you need a long break like 1 - 2 years

just my 2 cents...

jbaello

Between I got through my 3rd interview with Dell this is an 85 K gig, now tell me this is a wrong field, I am going to Vegas this week staying at MGM Grand, I doubt it I could do this if I decided a different field, I felt so bless to be in this industry, you just gotta figure out which part of IT you will enjoy the best, damn IT is soo huge my friend soo huge...

Take a long break play some video games and relax...

Turgon

I have always found it necessary to put in lots of time after work to study for examinations over the years. The jobs I held offered little or no downtime to study on works time because they carried high responsibilities, were hands on and underesourced. The benefit however was I obtained a tremendous amount of hands on experience. That plus my thirst for learning and the sacrifices made over the years on my personal time have afforded me a great career. I started in 1997 and inside 4 years with everything I had on at work including 3 job changes incurring significantly more responsibility and lots to learn on the job quickly I still made MCSE and CCNP on my own time. No braindumps. Just a hell of a lot of evenings and weekends. IT has changed in lots of ways the last 10 years and you will always need to keep abreast of new things that will help you advance and consolidate.

If undertaking that is proving difficult because of the demands on your time at work and you are finding sacrifice out of works time too much, then perhaps look for one of those IT jobs that affords you some decent time during the course of the working week to crack a book open. A number of NOC jobs and shift work can offer that.

vsmith3rd

mattipler, you (or your avatar) look like Kid from Kid n Play, the 80's rap duo.

Well, that's about all I have to offer in this thread, other than to congratulate myself on my 100th post.

Kaminsky

UnixGuy wrote:

If it's not fun, don't waste your life doing it !

Never a truer word was spoken ...


There is another truism peculiar to IT Support... "Nobody ever phones you when it's working fine" A user once did phone me to say "The computers are all working fine and so are the printers and I just wanted to say thanks" to which I responded "Are you taking the pi$$ ?"

Always remember, in IT you are expected to move on to a new IT role every 2-3 years to stop the doldrums setting in... sounds like it's you time. ... I once got asked an interview question which completely threw me .. and I have been to a lot of interviews ... " Why did you stay in this job for 5 years ? What's wrong with you that you couldn't find a better job ?"

Time to move on Mattipler me thinks...

jryantech

lol... I didn't really read this entire thread but the initial post about rather being a plumber or electrician is pretty funny because I just had a co-worker today say the same thing.

I don't know about you but I'd rather not take the extra cash being a plumber or electrician, because in return I would just hate my job. Sure electrician SOUNDS nice but I've heard it gets REALLY old REALLY fast.

jryantech

jbaello wrote:

Between I got through my 3rd interview with Dell this is an 85 K gig, now tell me this is a wrong field, I am going to Vegas this week staying at MGM Grand, I doubt it I could do this if I decided a different field, I felt so bless to be in this industry, you just gotta figure out which part of IT you will enjoy the best, damn IT is soo huge my friend soo huge...

Take a long break play some video games and relax...

Plus the IT field it seems, is what you make of it.

HeroPsycho

What I had to do for my first job as a public school teacher...

5 years of full time college to obtain my master's degree ($5000/yr in tuition plus books, parking = $28,000 roughly)
4 month what is effectively an internship I had to PAY to be able to do as a student teacher

For all my hard work and dedication (and money on tuition), I got a job as a $32K/yr. The payscale had me making $50K/yr after 25 years of teaching. Sure, I had a retirement plan paid for me 100%, but still.

What I had to do to get into IT?

7 MCSE exams x $125 + Transcenders @ $100 each + books (less than textbooks for college) = roughly $2000 counting purchased hardware to build lab

Knocked out MCSE studying what would be part time over the span of 2 years while earning significant side money doing computer work that more than paid for the above

First job in IT = $72K/yr

Even IMO sysadmins who are underpaid make $50K/yr in my area, and they don't have Master's degrees, nor do they have to deal with 35 screaming kids in a classroom, then go home and do lesson plans, grade papers, etc. And remember, going home and studying something is often times spent advancing your career by acquiring new skills. Teachers don't advance their career that much spending hours grading papers.

I really couldn't care less if most IT workers feel like they're under-appreciated. Get some perspective by talking to a dedicated public school teacher, or a firefighter, US soldier, policeman, social worker, etc.

Aldur

callmenobody wrote:

Oyeah - One last thing, I understand you may just be venting now - but I have friends that have switched from a blue collar position to do this and would never go back. And what we call sacrifice they call CAKE.

I worked in my dads cabinet shop for 13 years and I can attest to the above statement. The sacrifices and the stress of what I deal with now is nothing compared to what I dealt with back then, not to mention that I make a whole lot more then I did back then.

Granted I do have much less free time, with all the cert study and finishing up a BS degree, but this is my choice and I enjoy the study and work that I do.

I just keep promising the wife that someday we'll go on that honeymoon that I've promised her

Mrock4

I agree with pretty much everything that's been said already. I hate being so busy sometimes, and it does get stressful, but at the end of the day, I always feel like I did some good, and walk away from the job satisfied.

It all comes down to you doing what you truly love...I quite literally have not thought about the possibility of another profession since I got into IT. Life is way too short to spend a minute doing something you're not 110% happy with.


And as far as sacrifice....I second what Hero said. I missed out on a year and a half (to date) worth of time with family..soon to be more, because I was seeing the sights and sounds Iraq has to offer. I'll take IT any day of the week!!


But for what it's worth, my hats off to the firefighters, cops, EMS workers..those are the people who have it rough..

jbaello

Look around you... what do you see?

I'll tell you a story, my girlfriend is a Psy D. in laymans term she has a PHD in psychology, not to mention she was a suma cum laude when graduated from college (not sure why she's dumb when it comes to me :P), after putting in 2 1/2 years of internship to complete her dissertation, and getting her first real job without license + EPPP, I am still making more than her.

We are fortunate to be in this field, and you should count your blessings, I am not as smart as most of you, but I am reaping the benefit already, and trying harder by sacrificing those free hours I have, to make sure I stick around.

Without it, I would probably be flippin burgers, or painting a house, like I mentioned I'm not a gifted smart guy.

sexion8

Technowiz wrote:

No offense but you spend 2-3 hours a day each day after work with your head in a book, and you have been doing this for 10 years, and you are at the CCNA level???

Maybe IT isn't the right career for you. It certainly isn't for everybody. You are still young and have many working years ahead of you. It isn't too late to get into plumbing or electrical work if that is what you wish you had done.

I used to work in the offshore drilling industry as an electronics tech. Worked six months out of the year, made fantastic money, and didn't study nearly as much as I do now. But I still say making a career move into IT is one of the best decisions I've made in my adult life.

I completely DISAGREE with you. I've been studying at the CCIE Level circa 1999 and to be frankly I'm just lazy and don't care to take the exam to be honest. (http://www.security-express.com/archives/vuln-dev/2000-q3/0641.html) I've been dabbling with security for longer than ISC2 has been around, before the CISSP was a designed yet I started studying CISSP material using Tipton/Krause's Handbook of Information Security circa 1998 and I could probably write a list going back pre Simon Garfinkel and Eugene Spafford's first Practical Unix Security, pre Dorothy Demming and get into some names some of the older guys here would get teary eyed seeing. COPS anyone?

I just started certing now because my company is pushing me to cert, so don't be fooled with this notion of someone studying and need to be uberly certified. The most proficient expert I know with say Cisco goes by the name of Howard Berkowitz and he is a CCINothing however, he is one of the core people who laid out the core fundamentals for the exam when resellers and vendors were initially grandfathered in with the second CCIE ever (Terry Slattery)... We're talking 1991-95 or so. When I need to know something, Howard is the man I go to PERIOD. Not Scott Morris (who by the way is really a cool person), not anyone else. I could mention Laura Chappell too, but unless you're hardcore into network forensics and analysis, you won't even know the name

So theoretically since you base your assumption on someone studying so much, right now I should technically be... Neo I presume. I've got a long way to go to get to where I want to be and I can tell you with certainty, its not any specific cert route. I want to be able absorb as much as I can in a neutral fashion, at my pace, period. Don't base assumptions without having enough background on someone. I school CCVP's for a living and I don't even have a CCVP yet I puke so much VoIP I could probably write my own little book on QoS, VoIP (at the core) and VoIP security. Not to mention countless of others who have certs out the wazoo, unimpressive to me. At the same time, I've been schooled by some with certs as well. To each their own, but to be frank about it, some of the most talented people I know, have met, have corresponded with, they have ... drum roll please... zero certifications. Dan Farmer?! What! You're not certified in anything! Bruce Potter!?! You either!

jmanrta

IT requires you to take time out of your day to stay abreast with new technologies. You have to start at the bottom making **** wages and studying your ass off. What's nice about IT is you can climb the corporate ladder QUICKLY. But it doesn't come easy lots of hard work, dedication,studying, and passing certs.

A lot of truck drivers are well compensated however they have almost virtually no life, all their time is spent on the road, almost no time to spend with friends and family, no time to enjoy monetary rewards.

Nurses are also compensated well however they work long 12 hour shifts sometimes 16 hours and they are often accountable for people's lives. One little mistake could cost their or someone else's life. Those hours and accountability would really weigh me down.


You want to talk about unappreciated ? Social workers make differences in people's lives however they often required master degrees and be licensed, yet they are only compensated on average $34,000. Things aren't much better for teachers either!

Want to start your own business? Do you think it's gonna run itself?

The point of all this, if you want be succeed in any field you decided to go into it takes a lot of dedication and hard work. Nothing ever comes easy. Unless of course your lucky enough to have everything handed to you on a silver platter, but that's different story all together/

Pash

Well I guess if I really looked at it, yes I am underpaid for a London city wage (as I guess you are in Manchester). Can I survive? barely BUT I still do.

Ohh btw i work for a smaller engineering and consultancy company, so I have done my fair share of busting my balls over the last two years, carrying 42U data cabs up and down buildings (of course with help, but its still flaming heavy), mounting server equipment, APC UPS's (anybody who has put these in before knows how heavy they are). Just so not every one can say they sit in air conned cubicals remoting in and fixing everything is completely the norm everyday, although i love the days when I can do that

Id say stick at it matt, ignore the comments about your study speed, everyone has their own pace and I am the same. In the next few years in the UK market there is gonna be a massive shortage of IT skills and when the market comes strong again you will have experience and certs (this is from some reliable sources I might add)....this is the time to say how much you want in an interview, you may get a few coughs but ill bet they pay up

Cheers,

Technowiz

sexion8,

I understand what you are saying. There are exceptions to any rule and yes there are computer gurus out there with many years of experience and not a single cert to show they know their stuff. Their name and reputation is their credential. I've never seen someone who falls into that category complaining about all the time they spend studying without getting getting pay or recognition for it. If they feel that way and really know their stuff then they can drop a few hundred bucks, go breeze through some exams with their eyes closed, and go get a better paying job.

Now do you really think that mattipler is one of these people who are at that level and just for whatever reason doesn't find certs necessary because he already knows so much?

And if he is, then maybe the reason employers aren't recognizing his technical talent and the result of 10 years spent studying 2-3 hours a day is that he hasn't done his part to document and independently verify those skills to employers. Either way it is hard to lend a sympathetic ear to the belly aching. As many others here have already pointed out there are many other careers one can choose that will make you appreciate working in IT.

It sounds as if IT is all that mattipler has ever done. Maybe he needs to do something else to gain some perspective. I've been in the military. I've working in the oil field. And I've done a bit of electrical work with my father who is an electrician. I can tell you that I would much rather work in IT than anything I have done up to this point. I love to learn for the sake of learning and studying gives me some satisfaction. I think that is necessary to be successful in IT. But I also recognize it isn't for everybody. My dad would HATE this kind of work. He can't stand to have his butt planted in front of a computer screen pecking at a keyboard all day long. He'd rather get out and be working with his hands. So there is no right or wrong in this, just personal preference. If mattipler really doesn't enjoy spending time studying to stay up on technology and regrets his decision to get into IT then for @*%# sake stop whining and go do something else that makes you happy.

Mrock4

jbaello wrote:

I am not as smart as most of you, but I am reaping the benefit already, and trying harder by sacrificing those free hours I have, to make sure I stick around.

Without it, I would probably be flippin burgers, or painting a house, like I mentioned I'm not a gifted smart guy.

X2...my motivation stems from looking at tall the smart people here, and realizing if I want to get anywhere, I have to keep up. I'm not going back to Pizza hut!!