CCIE possible without ever touching a router?

adassusadassus Posts: 13Member ■□□□□□□□□□
Im about to finish CCNP (about 2 more months) and I was wondering what people thought about going doing CCIE right away with no real experience with routers/switches whatsoever. My only experience is with dynamips.

Is it feasible to go for CCIE only with dynamips?

I dont work in IT at the moment btw so that means no experience with the "real thing" what so everrrr...

Comments

  • gorebrushgorebrush Posts: 2,741Member
    I am pretty sure, that given what you have just explained.

    And, I'm sure everyone will agree with me.

    You will fail, epicly, if you try the CCIE after that.

    No, really, you will fail.
  • jibbajabbajibbajabba Posts: 4,317Member ■■■■■■■■□□
    gorebrush wrote:
    I am pretty sure, that given what you have just explained.

    And, I'm sure everyone will agree with me.

    You will fail, epicly, if you try the CCIE after that.

    No, really, you will fail.

    Don't go for the CCIE unless you have real experience .. ESPECIALLY the CCIE which has labs in the exam as well ...

    Some insight :

    http://www.networkworld.com/news/2006/022006-widernet-ccie.html?page=1
    My own knowledge base made public: http://open902.com :p
  • adassusadassus Posts: 13Member ■□□□□□□□□□
    I realize its a hard cert to get. Im not planning on rushing it either. I wanna take my time and master everything I learn. Eventually getting a job in the field as a CCNP. Before that though, Im definitely thinking going for it.
  • gorebrushgorebrush Posts: 2,741Member
    I'm definitely thinking of going for a CCIE - but in like 4-5 years time.

    Seriously, you can't just walk off the street and expect a CCIE to fall into your lap...

    People take 12 months just to prepare for this!
  • AhriakinAhriakin SupremeNetworkOverlord Posts: 1,800Member ■■■■■■■■□□
    Even if you did manage the CCIE that way it would work against you not for. Whatever about seeing the value of your cert.s minus the experience when going for an entry level/mid level job you would be immediately excluded from CCIE level work and that would most likely work it's way back to blocking you for lower positions (They would either see you as overqualified (through education) or a 'student' of the technology and not an implementer, i.e. you don't take the career path seriously enough).
    Besides the CCIE is VERY different to the earlier exams. CCNA and the professional level exams are more about the technology itself, the CCIE is how you can reason and apply it as much as understanding the technology. At that level the difference is not subtle icon_wink.gif
    We responded to the Year 2000 issue with "Y2K" solutions...isn't this the kind of thinking that got us into trouble in the first place?
  • binaribinari Posts: 26Member ■□□□□□□□□□
    have you ever heard of the term "paper <insert certification >" . Its people like this who cheapen certs. Why would you even bother to get a CCNP without having any experience.


    Good luck finding a position on the same level of an experienced CCNP.
    Doh
  • shednikshednik Posts: 2,005Member
    with no real world experience and a ccnp you will still have trouble finding a job the np is not designed for someone with no experience. I'd worry more about getting some experience then focusing on just the exams, even doing side/contract jobs will help. You can't walk into a job and say I can fix this I've done it in dynamips...trust me after I got my CCNA and then about 4-5 months later got a job in networking you'll find that the first six months on the job will really complete the knowledge you gained studying for the CCNA. So trust me and get some experience it will pay off what good is a piece of paper with no proper experience now?
  • mikej412mikej412 Posts: 10,090Member
    CCIE possible without ever touching a router?
    If that CCIE thing doesn't work out for you, you do have a future in stand up comedy. icon_lol.gif

    Can it be done -- sure.

    Could you get a job -- yeah -- possibly with a Business Partner that just moves boxes and needs another CCIE to get a better discount. Or maybe with a consulting company so that you help prolong the problems (and create more) and increase their billings. Or if you're the only CCIE in a 3rd world country.

    Would you actually be worth anything as a CCIE -- probably not.

    The R&S CCIE Lab is not a best practices lab. If you ever implemented a "lab solution" in real life you should be shot, but most likely would only be fired. But with no experience you probably wouldn't be hired in the first place.

    If you're any good as a CCNP, try and get a job with a Cisco Business Partner. That would give the most real experience in the shortest time. Then it might make sense to grab some books off the CCIE Reading List and start your study for the CCIE.

    If you don't have the knowledge and skills now to get a CCNP level job, I doubt the CCIE would help you much -- assuming you somehow get it.

    Have you ever tried to get a job and experience with your CCNA?
    :mike: Cisco Certifications -- Collect the Entire Set!
  • GT-RobGT-Rob Posts: 1,090Member
    I am sure it can be done. I remember dl or someone on here who interviewed a CCIE Sec. that had been working at star bucks the last couple years.

    Wanna guess if he got the job?


    I say if you really want to, go ahead and dip your feet into CCIE. You most likely will not go through with it, once you see the time it takes, and knowing that you won't get a CCIE job from it (without experience, you won't even get a CCNP job).


    Life is long. No need to rush it
  • TurgonTurgon Posts: 6,313Banned
    Well it can be done and has been done. Lots of folks use dynamips these days. You are far better off getting a job first though. It takes a lot of study to do the necessary work to get through the lab exam. There are some exceptions in terms of elapsed time to prepare and complete, but these are often people with employer support to study who also have significant experience as a trainer or engineer. You have time on your hands but not their profile. Even if you live in a box doing little else than CCIE studies at least 12 months to prepare isn't uncommon and some experienced candidates like myself take longer if they are working fulltime and have family commitments to juggle. It's all about what your priorities are really.

    But this is all preparation advice. Can it be done? Yes. Is it appropriate for you to try? Probably not just yet..

    The problem is the CCIE program isn't young anymore. In 2001 a CCNP walked on water so far as many recruiters and employers were concerned never mind a CCIE. This is no longer the case. But it's not so much that there are millions of CCIE's in the world today because there are not. It's more a case of the expectations of CCIE's are higher these days because the companies you work for have a much better overall understanding themselves of networking rudiments and capabilities. They may also have been burned in the past by certified people. Could you design a bespoke solution for the client? Could you effectively lead a network support team that has years of production network hands-on experience and actually built the networks you are then exposed to? Could you handle a 4th line network incident call when very experienced people are listening in and depending on your troubleshooting skills which incidently they will pull to pieces if you say something dumb? The expectations of the ablility of a CCIE are very high.

    You don't have experience of how networking is even done in enterprises or how it hangs together. I recall visiting a shop some years back and met the Novell Admin. I was halfway through my CNE but hadn't run a Novell network for some years. Im glad I wasn't tasked to assist with any Novell design work as my lack of recent experience with Netware 5 in the field really wouldn't have enabled me to make much of a contribution at all there and it would have been a worry working with folks really experienced at running that platform on a day to day basis across the company.

    Get a networking job first and foremost, finish the CCNP and then have a look at a couple of CCIE level books to see if work at that depth is really what you see yourself doing.

    In terms of getting the CCIE remember the track has been alive for twelve or more years now, and while there are a multitude of resources to choose from these days many experienced engineers have tried and failed to make the grade. Why? Knowledge, intellect and experience are important factors. Another is the time necessary to cover the track properly. Without experience you could get completely baffled by the technologies at this level and get disillusioned less than halfway through your preparation which would cost you a lot of time and money. Some folks without experience overcome these difficulties eventually but they are the exception rather than the rule and 4+ attempts isn't uncommon there.

    I would imagine that over the years perhaps a million people have aspired to getting the CCIE and today we have just 22000. Many are called, few are chosen.
  • mamonomamono Posts: 776Member ■■□□□□□□□□
    Gomjaba wrote:
    Don't go for the CCIE unless you have real experience .. ESPECIALLY the CCIE which has labs in the exam as well ...

    Some insight :
    http://www.networkworld.com/news/2006/022006-widernet-ccie.html?page=1


    The article, written in 2006, mentions an average time commitment of 1 year for studies alone for lab only. Most of the people that choose to commit to the CCIE lab studies invest several thousand dollars in material, equipment for home labs, and training courses. One person, at the time of the article in 2006, had taken the lab 19 times and still hadn't passed. This is one exam not to be taken lightly.
  • nelnel Posts: 2,859Member ■□□□□□□□□□
    shednik wrote:
    with no real world experience and a ccnp you will still have trouble finding a job the np is not designed for someone with no experience. I'd worry more about getting some experience then focusing on just the exams, even doing side/contract jobs will help. You can't walk into a job and say I can fix this I've done it in dynamips...trust me after I got my CCNA and then about 4-5 months later got a job in networking you'll find that the first six months on the job will really complete the knowledge you gained studying for the CCNA. So trust me and get some experience it will pay off what good is a piece of paper with no proper experience now?

    I will back this one up since landing my first actual networking job in my current company. I finished my CCNA and "thought" i would be ready to hit the real world - seriously. i started reading up on my ccnp to coincide with my studies with uni and with the hope of possible getting a junior position through the ccnp. but seriously i have been in the job around a week and now i realise why people were saying dont go for NP without experiance. There's so much more to it than reading books or playing with dynamips - although these play a big role too.

    My advice - finish your NP. get a job!!! get experiance!!! but dont go any further than the NP for the short term until you get a job / chance to work on these things.

    That doesnt mean stop - if i were you i would go onto the DA or one of the NA specialisations. but seriously having all these will mean very little if you cant back it up with experiance. i am just thankful i have my foot in the door now.

    Also if you dont have any IT experiance at all, i would advise not to expect getting a networking gig on the first go. You'll more than likely have to work your way up like everyone else.

    Try finding a job in a NOC in your area. The "lower" end roles seem to be unsociable hours but it would be a good start.
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